New leader of the NDP - A Sepratist?

[punked]

She's the leader now of a federal party but it's obvious that she doesn't care much about other provinces. The Bloc were clear that they'd only support policies if they were good for Quebec, it didn't matter how other provinces faired. If you aren't a separatist and you agree all provinces are equal then how can you support the Bloc?

You really don't understand how a union works do you? She support policies that were good for the union she was the head of. Which includes supporting a party that could stop a Conservative agenda. Sorry you are just making your ignorance clear.

[punked]

How many of them were members of the Party?

Considering polls divide pretty much evenly according to pollsters it would be statistically speaking the same number as the general population. You will have to go learn some math to crunch the numbers but probably over half.

[Boges]

Go read her endorsement it is posted on this thread are to lazy? It is right there in black and white. There were plenty of Federalist that supported the Bloc in 2006 to stop Harper. The Bloc got 42.1% of the vote in 2006 while Sepratism was polling at 25%. You can all that 20% that voted Bloc but loves Canada separatist and keep calling them stupid and talking about how much you hate them or you can welcome that have finally found a Federalist party they can support. Maybe if we let them, and moved on we could actually stop with the whole movement and put those 50 years behind us and become a country again. I see you and Conservatives around here would rather have a divided country though. You would rather have a French Canada and English Canada then just one country because then maybe you can win some stupid seats in parliament. Which is fine, I would rather have a united country that works toward a way forward. That is just me.

You know in Quebec that's all fine and dandy.

Outside of Quebec however, the idea of the Bloc is quite frankly offensive. One of the positive things about the May 2nd election is the destruction of the Bloc. And now the NDQ's leader is a former member.

You can say it doesn't matter, I'm telling you it does.

[capricorn]

Unless you are just trying to drag her through the mud and you don't care. You would rather rewrite history then know the truth. Which is fine it just makes you a bad person.

It is every citizen's duty to examine the motives and actions of their politicians. In this case we're talking about a federal interim party leader; one responsibility is to advance federalism and national unity. There are questions about whether she is capable of and willing to live up to such responsibility. You think this makes those citizens bad people? Come down to earth punked.

[Newfoundlander]

She's an opportunist.

[punked]

You know in Quebec that's all fine and dandy.

Outside of Quebec however, the idea of the Bloc is quite frankly offensive. One of the positive things about the May 2nd election is the destruction of the Bloc. And now the NDQ's leader is a former member.

You can say it doesn't matter, I'm telling you it does.

I get it you say that anyone who ever voted Bloc or belong to the party can never be anything else and Quebec which has has had over 50% of the people vote for the Bloc at one time should just separate. I get it you hate an united Canada. I quite enjoy a united Canada, and I welcome former separatists (which the NDP is not one of) to see the light of day. I welcome all people in Quebec to come into the Federalist idea so we can stop talking about what is good for English Canada or French Canada and just talk about what is good for Canada.

I get it. You want the Bloc back and are willing to try and turn a Federalist party into a Separatist one because you miss them so much. I am not.

[punked]

It is every citizen's duty to examine the motives and actions of their politicians. In this case we're talking about a federal interim party leader; one responsibility is to advance federalism and national unity. There are questions about whether she is capable of and willing to live up to such responsibility. You think this makes those citizens bad people? Come down to earth punked.

You are talking about a Federalist party leader who made it quite clear she does not support Separatism a long a long time ago and are trying to paint her as a separatist because you want a divided English and French Canada.

[punked]

She's an opportunist.

There are very few who aren't. We have good old Bob Rea the former NDPer leading one party, then we have good old Harper the former Liberal in charge of another. Yet you only have a problem with her switching parties why is that?

[Boges]

I get it you say that anyone who ever voted Bloc or belong to the party can never be anything else and Quebec which has has had over 50% of the people vote for the Bloc at one time should just separate. I get it you hate an united Canada. I quite enjoy a united Canada, and I welcome former separatists (which the NDP is not one of) to see the light of day. I welcome all people in Quebec to come into the Federalist idea so we can stop talking about what is good for English Canada or French Canada and just talk about what is good for Canada.

I get it. You want the Bloc back and are willing to try and turn a Federalist party into a Separatist one because you miss them so much. I am not.

Well the Bloc isolates itself from the rest of Canada. It, regardless of it's separatist motives, sets Quebec a part from the rest of the country. When you have a part that only looks out for itself you get the back of the rest of the nation up.

So if you're saying all these former separatists that suddenly have seen the light and found Jack Layton believe in a united Canada that remains to be seen. From what I can see all these Bloc members jumped ship and are being political opportunists.

I guess we'll see how the PQ does in the next election to see exactly where the separatist motives of the province exactly are.

[M.Dancer]

Considering polls divide pretty much evenly according to pollsters it would be statistically speaking the same number as the general population. You will have to go learn some math to crunch the numbers but probably over half.

So you are saying that 1/2 the members of BQ are federalists? or 1/2 the members of NPD?

[punked]

So you are saying that 1/2 the members of BQ are federalists? or 1/2 the members of NPD?

I am saying looking at the numbers from a polling stand point there are plenty of Bloc members from 5 years ago who don't actually want to separate. Just as separatism is still polling 20% but the PQ is polling in the 40s. There are plenty of people who will vote for the PQ knowing they can't separate with out a vote and they know they wont vote to separate.

[M.Dancer]

You are talking about a Federalist party leader who made it quite clear she does not support Separatism a long a long time ago and are trying to paint her as a separatist because you want a divided English and French Canada.

Show me where she said she didn't support it. We do have her saying that PSAC's endorsement of the separatists was not an endorsement of separatism...which is quite different from her saying that about the party she was a member of.

[punked]

Show me where she said she didn't support it. We do have her saying that PSAC's endorsement of the separatists was not an endorsement of separatism...which is quite different from her saying that about the party she was a member of.

What are you talking about? Stop trying to set out stipulations she clearly said she does not endorse Separatism. No she did not say it while hopping on one foot and playing catch with the Queen of England and maybe that isn't good enough for you. However she could not make it more clear in Black and White in 2006 when she said she did not support it.

You actually think that someone who was the head of the largest union in Canada of public workers would want to break up the country and their Union? Seriously you need your head examined. I get it you hate French Canada and think they need to go. I love that they voted for a Federalist party personally. I will not got on a witch hunt like the rest of you.

[Boges]

Punkster, you're in this pointy-headed debate about the definition of what a Bloc supporter is.

I never thought the people who voted for the Bloc all wanted their own country. That country would be untenable anyway.

What I do see when I see Bloc support is an isolationist view of your province. That you're different and you only care about yourself.

The rest of the country rejects that. So if the NDP looks for members that used to embrace that ideal, they'll have problems garnering support in West Canada and Ontario.

[cybercoma]

Perhaps you didn't realize that it was mostly francophone Bloc voters that shifted to the NDP. Or is it that you may perhaps believe these people became staunch federalists overnight?

There is a vast amount of space been separatists and staunch federalists. You're presenting a false dichotomy here.

[cybercoma]

So according to the Globe and Mail Turmel was a card carrying Bloc Québécois till January of this year.

And Bob Rae was a card-carrying member of the NDP and Lucien Bouchard was a card-carrying member of the Progressive Conservatives and Belinda Stronach was a card-carrying....

[punked]

Punkster, you're in this pointy-headed debate about the definition of what a Bloc supporter is.

I never thought the people who voted for the Bloc all wanted their own country. That country would be untenable anyway.

What I do see when I see Bloc support is an isolationist view of your province. That you're different and you only care about yourself.

The rest of the country rejects that. So if the NDP looks for members that used to embrace that ideal, they'll have problems garnering support in West Canada and Ontario.

The reasons why people support the party they support are many. There are people in the Conservative party would like to stop immigration, there are people in the NDP would like a socialist state, there are people in the Liberal party would would kill free trade (in fact they got elected on that in 93) however that does not mean that everyone in the party would support that.

In 2006 there were plenty who saw the Bloc as their only shot to not send a Liberal, or Conservative to Ottawa and that was good enough for them. I don't begrudge them, now they have voted in a Federalist party and we should be happy about that. Instead what Conservatives are trying to do is resurrect the the Bloc which is what the Liberals did many times in the past. It is a risky game just to have a bad guy. Personally I am glad they are gone and the country is moving past it after 50 years. Maybe we can finally talk about something else.

I ask you guys seriously tell your party that is enough of these games. We need a united Canada and thumbing out noises at Quebec and calling them dumb for the people they vote for is behind us. It is time to change the way those politics are done because if we keep this up we are going to bring that party back from the dead for no good reason.

[cybercoma]

Punkster, you're in this pointy-headed debate about the definition of what a Bloc supporter is.

I never thought the people who voted for the Bloc all wanted their own country. That country would be untenable anyway.

What I do see when I see Bloc support is an isolationist view of your province. That you're different and you only care about yourself.

The rest of the country rejects that. So if the NDP looks for members that used to embrace that ideal, they'll have problems garnering support in West Canada and Ontario.

The Reform Party is the exact same thing, Preston Manning's "the West wants in" spin-doctoring be damned. The CPC comes out of an isolationist view of the West and the populist politics of provincial autonomy. Sorry for the alliteration.

[M.Dancer]

What are you talking about? Stop trying to set out stipulations she clearly said she does not endorse Separatism.

Did she or did she not support the Bloc's official policy while a member?

This is not a hard question....

[Boges]

The reasons why people support the party they support are many. There are people in the Conservative party would like to stop immigration, there are people in the NDP would like a socialist state, there are people in the Liberal party would would kill free trade (in fact they got elected on that in 93) however that does not mean that everyone in the party would support that.

In 2006 there were plenty who saw the Bloc as their only shot to not send a Liberal, or Conservative to Ottawa and that was good enough for them. I don't begrudge them, now they have voted in a Federalist party and we should be happy about that. Instead what Conservatives are trying to do is resurrect the the Bloc which is what the Liberals did many times in the past. It is a risky game just to have a bad guy. Personally I am glad they are gone and the country is moving past it after 50 years. Maybe we can finally talk about something else.

I ask you guys seriously tell your party that is enough of these games. We need a united Canada and thumbing out noises at Quebec and calling them dumb for the people they vote for is behind us. It is time to change the way those politics are done because if we keep this up we are going to bring that party back from the dead for no good reason.

Please provide support material to prove that the Conservatives are trying to bring back the Bloc.

This story about the new leader has come to light because of the media.

As a Conservative I see very little difference between the modern NDP in Quebec and the bloc. That's why in 2008 the Bloc did very well, and less than 3 years later they did horribly but the NDP did very well. It's the same voters.

The CPC couldn't give a flying bleep about Quebec anymore. with Ontario and Western Canada in their pocket they don't have to pander to Quebec anymore like every other Federalist leader since Pearson has had to do.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Boges

[Oleg Bach]

The interm leader makes one special trip - to pander in Vancouver at their gay day parade - what an idiot and a phoney...when ever they jump on the gay band wagon that quickly you know they have no charisma that will hold up on it's own - goodbye NDP and I hope they disintigrate.

[Chippewa]

The reasons why people support the party they support are many. There are people in the Conservative party would like to stop immigration,

Its funny you say that. First Nations have been saying that since 1492.

[punked]

Did she or did she not support the Bloc's official policy while a member?

This is not a hard question....

She wrote a whole editorial in 2006 saying she didn't support separatism. You can read it, it is in this thread. Give it a try.

[punked]

Please provide support material to prove that the Conservatives are trying to bring back the Bloc.

Let me just post something said by a conservative on this form that shows what I am saying.

"The CPC couldn't give a flying bleep about Quebec anymore. with Ontario and Western Canada in their pocket they don't have to pander to Quebec anymore like every other Federalist leader since Pearson has had to do.

I get it. You guys hate French people and hope they leave the country. It is really to bad they voted for a federalist party because now you will turn that Federalist party into a Separatist party even it kills the country. You need a boogy man because with out one how will you get votes and donations.

[M.Dancer]

She wrote a whole editorial in 2006 saying she didn't support separatism. You can read it, it is in this thread. Give it a try.

The Ottawa Citizen, Mon 06 Mar 2006

Re: Labour pains, March 1.

The Citizen rightly claims that the Public Service Alliance of Canada “endorsed a number of separatist candidates in the Pontiac, despite the fact that the union represents workers whose livelihood depends on a strong federal government.” However, poll after poll suggests that about 25 per cent of Bloc Quebecois supporters are federalists.

The reason is that the Bloc is proactive and progressive on a range of issues, from pay equity to anti-scab legislation to child care. On the basis of its strong support for social, human and labour rights alone, it gets support from workers and their families.

And while the leadership of the Bloc supports separation for Quebec, this is an issue that will not be decided in a federal election.

Workers and businesses in the area should be more concerned about the Citizen editorial board’s support of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives (CCCE) which, in the words of the editorial, is “regularly putting forward serious policy proposals.”

The Harper government and the CCCE, and by implication the Citizen, endorse the concept of a fiscal imbalance between the federal and provincial governments, a notion that I and my union reject. I suggest that your acknowledgement of a fiscal imbalance and lack of support for measures to ameliorate it will do more to undermine workers and businesses, including the Citizen, whose livelihoods depend more on a strong federal government than on the endorsement and democratic election of a Bloc MP.

Care to point out where SHE says she doesn't support her party's goal for separation?