New leader of the NDP - A Sepratist?

[Michael Hardner]

... there's no need to be calling someone a "dummy" because they don't share your beliefs.

I concur. Punked is usually better than that.

[Newfoundlander]

You really don't understand the inner workings of a Union. It is ok. You go learn come back and I will explain it again. You can go look at PSAC's endorsement of the Bloc in 2006, an endorsement voted on by its members. Her being the president of said Democratic organization backed its members, but while doing so put language into the endorsement that they DO NOT support Separatism. Which is what this thread is about. It is like you don't know how to read. Do you know how to read? Because it seems like you are responding to things said on the other page not this one. We have already gone over who her and her Union went out of their way to say they DO NOT SUPPORT SEPARATISM!

Which was the point I was making in the first place which you took issue with because you know nothing about Quebec or Canadian politics. It is ok you will learn if you stick around long enough and read the threads.

You're an ignorant pig, dummy.

[punked]

You're an ignorant pig, dummy.

I thought that would be the only retort you could come up with when faced with a well thought out reply with actual facts. Thanks for showing your true colors.

[bloodyminded]

You're an ignorant pig, dummy.

I put it to you that, if you genuinely object to his use of "dummy" and how it affects civil debate, extrapolating on the theme and using more severely provocative language prabably isn't going to improve things.

[fellowtraveller]

You cannot help but be entertained by the notion of telling 175000 union members to vote for a party founded on the principle of separation while pretending that principle is secondary, of no importance.

Ms Turmel is a curious choice as leader.

I would have thought that Layton would have picked someody more centrist. Ms Turmel will alarm centrist Canadians, she is a hardcore leftist with a major labour background, none of wehich will appeal to the great mass of voters in the middle that the NDP needs to become a national force. It will appeal to Quebec I guess, so perhaps the game here is to demonstrate that the NDP is the party of Quebec. That might be a good idea, since the NDP is going to have a really really hard time doing much else for Quebec in the next four years, and they will be out on their ear unless they can deliver the bacon to Quebec and plenty of it. It still does not make them more palatable to the ROC though.

[Boges]

You cannot help but be entertained by the notion of telling 175000 union members to vote for a party founded on the principle of separation while pretending that principle is secondary, of no importance.

Ms Turmel is a curious choice as leader.

I would have thought that Layton would have picked someody more centrist. Ms Turmel will alarm centrist Canadians, she is a hardcore leftist with a major labour background, none of wehich will appeal to the great mass of voters in the middle that the NDP needs to become a national force. It will appeal to Quebec I guess, so perhaps the game here is to demonstrate that the NDP is the party of Quebec. That might be a good idea, since the NDP is going to have a really really hard time doing much else for Quebec in the next four years, and they will be out on their ear unless they can deliver the bacon to Quebec and plenty of it. It still does not make them more palatable to the ROC though.

Quebec will become less and less important as the population moves west. Harper is proposing adding seats to BC, Ontario and Alberta none in Quebec. In fact if it wasn't illegal the proper course would be to remove seats from Quebec.

[fellowtraveller]

Quebec is and still will be a huge block of seats and a major poltical force in Canada for years to come.

I still don't understand Laytons choice unless it is to further secure a base in Quebec. And I am not sure he needs to do that now. Maybe in a coupe of years, but not now.

Why not Mulcair as national leader and Turmel as Quebec deputy? Mulcair is far less threatening or 'out there' as Turmel to Anglo Canada, which is a constituency that the NDP must ultimately try to win. If noting else, that constituency include plenty of restless Liberals.

[Boges]

Quebec is and still will be a huge block of seats and a major poltical force in Canada for years to come.

Yes but I think this is the first time a party that got pwned in Quebec still received a pretty strong Majority.

Quebec is an irrelevant piece of crap if you ask me. They do nothing good for this country.

Montreal is nice though.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Boges

[punked]

You cannot help but be entertained by the notion of telling 175000 union members to vote for a party founded on the principle of separation while pretending that principle is secondary, of no importance.

See she didn't tell her union anything her union and its members told her. Which is why the union leadership meaning her thought it necessary to point out that while the union membership endorsed the Bloc it was not because of Separation but because of their progressive policies which would be good for whole the country that (Not her) but her unions members endorsed them. It is right there in black and white in the endorsement in 2006. Just go read it.

[fellowtraveller]

See she didn't tell her union anything her union and its members told her. Which is why the union leadership meaning her thought it necessary to point out that while the union membership endorsed the Bloc it was not because of Separation but because of their progressive policies which would be good for whole the country that (Not her) but her unions members endorsed them. It is right there in black and white in the endorsement in 2006. Just go read it.

You are delusional if you believe the first part of that paragraph, utterly delusional.

The second half would be necesary to quell the few PSAC members outside the NCC.

I predict Ms Turmel will have a tough road ahead, at first outside her own party and then within. You see, extremely politiczed unions run into troble when their party struggles, and extremist leaders founder at the national level and on the national stage she is now entering.

[Boges]

LOL believing that the Bloc's policies are good for the country as a whole.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Boges

[Evening Star]

deleted

Edited July 27, 2011 by Evening Star

[Evening Star]

deleted

Edited July 27, 2011 by Evening Star

[capricorn]

You cannot help but be entertained by the notion of telling 175000 union members to vote for a party founded on the principle of separation while pretending that principle is secondary, of no importance.

No doubt, the PSAC leadership (and at one point that included Nycole Turmel) realized that encouraging support for the Bloc/separatists would become an issue with some people. One thing to keep in mind is that the PSAC has a Quebec wing that it strives to keep onside and happy. That becomes even more important if separation becomes a clear possibility and a union the size of the PSAC, which takes a long range approach, must tailor its activities for any eventuality. Should Quebec separate, at all cost the PSAC would want to preserve its rights as the bargaining agent for any and all members transferred from federal to Quebec jurisdiction. It must be prepared to make its case and the groundwork must be solid to ensure a smooth transition, should it become necessary.

As a long time elected PSAC officer, Ms. Turmel was part of that future planning and related activities, and carries that baggage with her. In her new role with the NDP, she is now reaping the fallout of the PSAC's long standing policy of actively engaging in candidate endorsement in federal and provincial elections, including separatist candidates. It is incumbent upon her to convince her critics that in spite of the PSAC's candidate endorsements in Quebec, she does not harbour separatist beliefs, she does not support separation and she is a federalist through and through.

As the national unity issue makes its way into the election campaign, the Conservative candidate in Gatineau is incensed the union representing federal government workers is supporting the sovereigntist candidate — and urging other Canadians to vote for him, too.

Jennifer Gearey, who took an unpaid leave of absence from her job as a communications adviser for international security policy for the Department of National Defence, called it “hypocrisy” that the Public Service Alliance of Canada has thrown its support behind Bloc Quebecois candidate Richard Nadeau.

“I don’t know how the union representing federal public service is putting its support behind a man who represents a party that wants to tear apart our country,” she told iPolitics. “It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2011/04/19/tory-fumes-over-psac-supportfor-bloc-candidate-in-gatineau/

In some ways, Turmel will also need to distance herself from the politics of the very union she once headed. I happen to know Nycole Turmel. She was not, nor is she now a separatist. But a lot of people will need convincing. The woman has her work cut out.

[Scotty]

Keep the anti Quebec rants strong and vibrant so that the Alberta right wing in Canada can solidify the NDP's hold on Quebec and even strengthen their seats there come next election.

How is it anti-quebec to point out that the woman appears not to have a very strong commitment to Canada? This is the person who leads the official opposition at the moment, which is the government in waiting for all Canadians. I don't think it's irrelevant to question whether she is doing so merely out of expediency to get the most for Quebec if she's on record as supporting separatist candidates.

[Scotty]

You are only hammering home the point that you don't really understand Quebec politics which is just fine. Here is another thing there is no provincial political party which is progressive or commands the support of union leaders.

Because union leaders are all separatists and won't support a party which isn't.

[Scotty]

You really don't understand the inner workings of a Union. It is ok. You go learn come back and I will explain it again. You can go look at PSAC's endorsement of the Bloc in 2006, an endorsement voted on by its members.

Uh, no. PSAC members have little to do with the selection of their union leaders, let alone who those leaders endorse.

[Scotty]

You cannot help but be entertained by the notion of telling 175000 union members to vote for a party founded on the principle of separation while pretending that principle is secondary, of no importance.

Ms Turmel is a curious choice as leader.

I agree. You don't support separatists, period, no matter what you think of other parts of their platform. Their entire reason for existence is seperatism.

As for Nicole Turmel, I can't say how she is in French but I've seen her speak in English. She makes Harper seem charismatic by comparison, and her command of the English language is easily surpassed by most of our local taxi drivers.

[punked]

Uh, no. PSAC members have little to do with the selection of their union leaders, let alone who those leaders endorse.

Yah you might want to go and check out PSAC before you say things that make you look misinformed. Again when PSAC endorsed the Bloc in 2006 they went out of their way to say they think Separatism is stupid and against the interest of their Union, and the Quebec/Canadian people. You can't rewrite history to say what you want the endorsement is there in black and white you can go read it if you want.

[punked]

I agree. You don't support separatists, period, no matter what you think of other parts of their platform. Their entire reason for existence is seperatism.

As for Nicole Turmel, I can't say how she is in French but I've seen her speak in English. She makes Harper seem charismatic by comparison, and her command of the English language is easily surpassed by most of our local taxi drivers.

She speaks English quite well she does however have an accent that might have messed you up. Although keep it up I am sure if English Conservative Canada doesn't want harmony all they have to do is keep sticking the French in the eye yelling "Everything you do is stupid". It has always worked for you guys before right?

[cybercoma]

Yah you might want to go and check out PSAC before you say things that make you look misinformed. Again when PSAC endorsed the Bloc in 2006 they went out of their way to say they think Separatism is stupid and against the interest of their Union, and the Quebec/Canadian people. You can't rewrite history to say what you want the endorsement is there in black and white you can go read it if you want.

If you can find any documents that corroborate your assertion, I would be interested in reading about it.

[punked]

If you can find any documents that corroborate your assertion, I would be interested in reading about it.

Here is their 2006 endorsement. It was titled "PSAC endorses Bloc’s progressive policies, not its goal of separatism" That was the title, it wasn't some line buried somewhere in the endorsement it was the title.

As you can see Nycole Turmel wrote it her self. That has been my point this whole thread. Conservatives love to re-write history but fact is Mrs. Turmel went out of her way in 2006 to say she and PSAC do not support Separatism. Any idiot could find it, yet there are plenty of people who refuse to actually look into any issue because they want to believe something instead of the truth.

http://wp.psacbc.com/2006/03/06/psac-endorses-blocs-progressive-policies-not-its-goal-of-separatism/

Edited July 28, 2011 by punked

[Scotty]

Yah you might want to go and check out PSAC before you say things that make you look misinformed

My sister is a shop steward over there. In one of their components. The vast majority of the membership knows nothing about their union and takes no part in it. Her particular local is basically all volunteer. She volunteered to be a shop steward about a year ago. There was no vote. She's been working there ten years and she can't recall ever hearing about any votes for the local leadership. Last week there was a big convention in Montreal where all the locals voted on regional representatives and such. She didn't go, though. I presume that at some point the regional representatives vote for those above them, but the actual basic membership has virtually nothing to do with any of it.

Again when PSAC endorsed the Bloc in 2006 they went out of their way to say they think Separatism is stupid and against the interest of their Union,

No, all they said was they didn't agree with separatism but that they respected Quebecers' rights to make that decision themselves. But they kind of had to say that for public consumption, whether they agreed with it or not.

[Scotty]

She speaks English quite well she does however have an accent that might have messed you up. Although keep it up I am sure if English Conservative Canada doesn't want harmony all they have to do is keep sticking the French in the eye yelling "Everything you do is stupid". It has always worked for you guys before right?

I didn't say she was stupid. I said she was a dull speaker whose English sucked. Chretien had an accent. Turmel would need years of practice to be as good as Chretien.

[punked]

My sister is a shop steward over there. In one of their components. The vast majority of the membership knows nothing about their union and takes no part in it. Her particular local is basically all volunteer. She volunteered to be a shop steward about a year ago. There was no vote. She's been working there ten years and she can't recall ever hearing about any votes for the local leadership. Last week there was a big convention in Montreal where all the locals voted on regional representatives and such. She didn't go, though. I presume that at some point the regional representatives vote for those above them, but the actual basic membership has virtually nothing to do with any of it.

No, all they said was they didn't agree with separatism but that they respected Quebecers' rights to make that decision themselves. But they kind of had to say that for public consumption, whether they agreed with it or not.

yah ok my sister works as blah blah over there and blah blah blah made up story. I get it.

Yes they went out of their way to say they don't support separatism stop trying to rewrite history with a conservative spin is getting old and tired honestly.