cybercoma Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Why are we about to dump more money into prisons? That's rhetorical, the ideological blackhole works like this. Crime rate goes up: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to fight crime!" Crime rate goes down: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to make sure the crime rate doesn't go up!" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-crime-rate-at-lowest-level-in-almost-40-years-statscan/article2104745/ Quote
bloodyminded Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Why are we about to dump more money into prisons? That's rhetorical, the ideological blackhole works like this. Crime rate goes up: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to fight crime!" Crime rate goes down: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to make sure the crime rate doesn't go up!" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-crime-rate-at-lowest-level-in-almost-40-years-statscan/article2104745/ According to the article, the homicide rate dropped to its lowest since 1966. And I doubt homicides are chief among the "unreported crimes" that the government likes to talk about. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
guyser Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Shhhhhhh...there are some here who will argue that the rate in 1952 is far lower and thus we need to buidl prisons galore. Not to mention those who will argue that unreported crime is through the roof, a very unsafe country except for those'unreported criminal acts tha are endangering us" Shh....they are sleeping soundly now. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Posted July 21, 2011 They're not. StatsCan says they're the highest reported crime. It's pretty tough for a dead person to go unreported. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) They're not. StatsCan says they're the highest reported crime. It's pretty tough for a dead person to go unreported. Says you. Yours, C Anthony I think Canada is by and large a safe place. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be tough on the people that do commit crimes. Edited July 21, 2011 by Boges Quote
bloodyminded Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Says you. Yours, C Anthony It has since been reported, of course, so that undermines your point a little bit. Besides, no one claimed it never happens. Just that it's rare. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bloodyminded Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Shhhhhhh...there are some here who will argue that the rate in 1952 is far lower and thus we need to buidl prisons galore. Oh, I know. More prisons mean more awesomeness, no matter what irritating facts are exposed. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
fellowtraveller Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 [i think Canada is by and large a safe place. /quote]Except for downtown Vancouver. Ugly crowds form there for no reason.Cops have a tough time with stats. If they don't report plenty of it, budgets get cut because they are doing their jobs too well. If they report lots of crime, they get criticized for not doing their job. It is hard to maintain plenty o'jobs in these circumstances. Quote The government should do something.
Shwa Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Oh, I know. More prisons mean more awesomeness, no matter what irritating facts are exposed. And more expensiveness. That awesomeness is pricey! Prison costs soar 86% in past five years: report Which begs the questions as to which insider will get the graft when all those prison building contracts get `tendered.' Quote
jacee Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Harper paying off his funders no doubt. It goes like this: rich person gets richer gouging the rest of us, hoards wealth, has some guilt but experiences it only as anxiety that someone's out to get his money, so projects that there's a lot of crime and it must be punished. Statistics lie, of course, he KNOWS they're out there! Ergo, we taxpayers pay the cost of the paranoia of the wealthy hoarders. Eta: The reductions in crime are right on schedule as predicted by demographers: Most criminals are between 20 and 40 years of age. The population bulge of baby boomers born in 1965 are now 45 and past their criminal years. Crime is decreasing, but the wealthiest are entering their old age anxiety/paranoia years. The more money you have, the more you worry about losing it. Edited July 21, 2011 by jacee Quote
bloodyminded Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 And more expensiveness. That awesomeness is pricey! Prison costs soar 86% in past five years: report Which begs the questions as to which insider will get the graft when all those prison building contracts get `tendered.' As a sort of coda to the article you link, we read that the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation supports the massive increased costs. I was wondering is there were any taxes at all that these fellows supported! And they do! What a surprise. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Overcrowding, gangs causing increase Canadian prison violence: report Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Remiel Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Overcrowding, gangs causing increase Canadian prison violence: report Has the government ever claimed that we need new prisons because of overcrowding in the old ones? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Overcrowding, gangs causing increase Canadian prison violence: report I haven't followed this issue so closely but I'm not sure why the crime rate is focused on so frequently, over the core problem of overcrowding. Prisons may be decommissioned or condemned, prison sentences may be trending higher, crime rates can lower or rise but the core issue is overcrowding isn't it ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Mr. Sapers works for the government, but I suppose that my point applies to members of the government too. I'm not sure why they wouldn't mention it either, except that they may not want to appear as mushy liberal sops to their core league of cheerleaders. In any case, it may be a case where we can disagree with the rhetoric and agree on the policy. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Remiel Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Mr. Sapers works for the government, but I suppose that my point applies to members of the government too. I'm not sure why they wouldn't mention it either, except that they may not want to appear as mushy liberal sops to their core league of cheerleaders. In any case, it may be a case where we can disagree with the rhetoric and agree on the policy. I am not sure of what significance agreeing on policy is though when one side is lying gratuitously about the policy... Quote
Michael Hardner Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 I am not sure of what significance agreeing on policy is though when one side is lying gratuitously about the policy... They're lying about the reasons for the policy. It's more arguing about identity: mushy liberals vs law-and-order types. People prefer to argue that over facts, I find. For example, in Toronto the right wingers rallied around Rob Ford's leftist white elephant subway idea, and denounced Miller's more practical idea - I think because they like the cut of Ford's jib. I don't like the way the Conservative government cynically keeps the popcorn gallery happy with their stances, but the fact is they're governing like Liberals so far. It could be worse. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
fellowtraveller Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 the fact is they're governing like Liberals so far That is wonderful news, I will fly to Montreal tomorrow to invest in every ad agency I can possibly find. Quote The government should do something.
Sandy MacNab Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 And more expensiveness. That awesomeness is pricey! Prison costs soar 86% in past five years: report Which begs the questions as to which insider will get the graft when all those prison building contracts get `tendered.' I'm betting it won't be a Liberal - for a change. Quote
TimG Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 According to the article, the homicide rate dropped to its lowest since 1966. Population of Canada in 1960: 18 million. 270 Murders; Population of Canada in 2010: 34 million. 610 Murders; The *rate* of homicide may be going down but the *number* of murders is at an all time high. That means we need more prisons to keep the larger number of murders. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 ...The *rate* of homicide may be going down but the *number* of murders is at an all time high. That means we need more prisons to keep the larger number of murders. Thank you...I guess this kind of analysis just escapes the political science and bull majors. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Population of Canada in 1960: 18 million. 270 Murders; Population of Canada in 2010: 34 million. 610 Murders; The *rate* of homicide may be going down but the *number* of murders is at an all time high. That means we need more prisons to keep the larger number of murders. Are you suggesting that we have the same number of prisons now that we did in 1960? Because that's the only way your point makes any sense. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
TimG Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Are you suggesting that we have the same number of prisons now that we did in 1960?What I am saying is a falling crime rate does not automatically mean we need fewer prisons. Especially when you look at the full range of offenses.Vancouver called bank robbery capital of North America “They think it’s an easy way to get money. But they will get caught. We charge 80 to 90 per cent of persons responsible for these crimes and they can expect to go to jail for at least a couple of years. One serial bank robber was recently sentenced to five years,” said LePard. Quote
Tilter Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Why are we about to dump more money into prisons? That's rhetorical, the ideological blackhole works like this. Crime rate goes up: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to fight crime!" Crime rate goes down: "We need to spend more money on prisons and cops to make sure the crime rate doesn't go up!" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-crime-rate-at-lowest-level-in-almost-40-years-statscan/article2104745/ Yeah---- ANYONE who reads the papers & watches TV news can immediately how the crime rate is going down. I think every police chief in Canada is participating in that farce--- The murder rate in TO surpassed last year's total in about May of this year & it's a strange day that we don't hear of a major robbery, home invasion or murder in each of the big cities in Canada. Quote
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