Topaz Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Air Canada and the CAW have reached a tentative agreement this morning but there's still the vote by the union. I suspect that if the CAW got the pensions they wanted, they may have to give away something else or they couldn't protect the new hires. It so unfair when certain government get involved with the process of private companies strikes and if this government has done it with Air Canada why didn't they do it in Ontario, were the economies of those regions was crippled by a strikes and lack of good bargaining on the companies part? I'll tell you why, because it didn't inconvenience them, Air Canada strike does. So we'll see if its really over or not. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Canada+reaches+tentative+deal+with+striking+workers/4957937/story.html Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 It so unfair when certain government get involved with the process .... Certain government? Does that mean say, when another government gets involved, it is fair? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Battletoads Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Canadians should now taking notice of the hardline right wingers they put into power... I wonder how long before the Cons try and pull a 'wisconsin' on unions of all stripes. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
segnosaur Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 It so unfair when certain government get involved with the process of private companies strikes... Ummm.... in case you didn't notice, the government is already involved in labor practices at private companies because of the existence of things like the Rand formula and other restrictions on company/employee relations. ...and if this government has done it with Air Canada why didn't they do it in Ontario, were the economies of those regions was crippled by a strikes and lack of good bargaining on the companies part? Probably because the scope and impact of an Air Canada strike was greater than that of strikes within Ontario. Stepping in with back-to-work legislation is a rather serious step and should be weighed carefully. Why are you automatically assuming that the "lack of good bargaining" was on the part of the companies? Quote
Handsome Rob Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 The CAW is not getting the pensions they wanted. DB pensions will remain DB pensions, that wasn't on the table. New hires will be switched to DC pensions, and they said "A little tweaking" to existing employee pensions. Details still thin, I bet wages will be the quid pro quo, but it looks like the strike was pointless. Sucks even more for the IAM/ACPA/CUPE when their turn comes soon enough. Quote
segnosaur Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Canadians should now taking notice of the hardline right wingers they put into power... I wonder how long before the Cons try and pull a 'wisconsin' on unions of all stripes. Of course you do know that the Liberal government under Chretien also brought in legislation to end worker strikes, don't you? http://www.encyclopediecanadienne.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0011454 Quote
Handsome Rob Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 The CAW is not getting the pensions they wanted. DB pensions will remain DB pensions, that wasn't on the table. New hires will be switched to DC pensions, and they said "A little tweaking" to existing employee pensions. Details still thin, I bet wages will be the quid pro quo, but it looks like the strike was pointless. Sucks even more for the IAM/ACPA/CUPE when their turn comes soon enough. Well bollocks to that misinformation, pension dispute to go to arbitration. Suspect it'll mean the same thing in the end anyway. Quote
Battletoads Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Of course you do know that the Liberal government under Chretien also brought in legislation to end worker strikes, don't you? http://www.encyclopediecanadienne.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0011454 Do tell, when did the libs announce back to work legislation the day after the full lockout/strike was underway? Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Wilber Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Well bollocks to that misinformation, pension dispute to go to arbitration. Suspect it'll mean the same thing in the end anyway. Agreed. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Jack Weber Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Canadians should now taking notice of the hardline right wingers they put into power... I wonder how long before the Cons try and pull a 'wisconsin' on unions of all stripes. Probably sometime afetr the Ontario budget is passed with "Wine Tasting" Tim Hudak in charge... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Air Canada and the CAW have reached a tentative agreement this morning but there's still the vote by the union. I suspect that if the CAW got the pensions they wanted, they may have to give away something else or they couldn't protect the new hires. It so unfair when certain government get involved with the process of private companies strikes and if this government has done it with Air Canada why didn't they do it in Ontario, were the economies of those regions was crippled by a strikes and lack of good bargaining on the companies part? I'll tell you why, because it didn't inconvenience them, Air Canada strike does. So we'll see if its really over or not. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Canada+reaches+tentative+deal+with+striking+workers/4957937/story.html Agreed!!! Why is'nt the federal government getting involved in the LOCKOUT of USWA Local 1005 in Hamilton at the US Steel (former Stelco) plant??? The same issues apply AND the company is trying to welch on a deal they signed in "good faith" with the union and federal goverment as it relates to pensions? Edited June 17, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
PIK Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Canadians should now taking notice of the hardline right wingers they put into power... I wonder how long before the Cons try and pull a 'wisconsin' on unions of all stripes. And it is about time. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
M.Dancer Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Canadians should now taking notice of the hardline right wingers they put into power... I wonder how long before the Cons try and pull a 'wisconsin' on unions of all stripes. And in the time since back to work legislation was first invoked, was it always right wingers? How often is it used? Since 1950, the federal government has introduced back-to-work legislation 31 times, usually to end strikes by railway workers, grain handlers and port workers. It has used back-to-work legislation to end several postal strikes, as well as a 1977 strike by air traffic controllers.The last time the federal government used the tool was in 1999, to end a series of rotating strikes by public sector workers. The law extended collective agreements that had expired, and permitted the government to set the terms and conditions of employment. The law was passed after a tentative agreement had been reached. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/strike/backtowork.html Let me answer that for you...the last time it was used it Was a Mr Chretien who was PM. In 1977...it was M. Trudeau of the 31 times it has been used, 19 times by the Liberal government. http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlInfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/legislation/LegislationBackToWork.aspx?Language=E Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Topaz Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Posted June 17, 2011 Certain government? Does that mean say, when another government gets involved, it is fair? Where its not fair, and you may not know this the government was asked by three other private company workers to help with their talks and they refused , saying they don't get involved in contract talks. It seems they have a double -standard on some issues. The govt 's point was the economy of the country, well the other three example, also related to the regions involved their ecomonies, which also affected the country through exports, reduction in EI fund etc. Quote
PIK Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 And in the time since back to work legislation was first invoked, was it always right wingers? How often is it used? http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/strike/backtowork.html Let me answer that for you...the last time it was used it Was a Mr Chretien who was PM. In 1977...it was M. Trudeau of the 31 times it has been used, 19 times by the Liberal government. http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlInfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/legislation/LegislationBackToWork.aspx?Language=E HOF post. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Topaz Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Posted June 17, 2011 Agreed!!! Why is'nt the federal government getting involved in the LOCKOUT of USWA Local 1005 in Hamilton at the US Steel (former Stelco) plant??? The same issues apply AND the company is trying to welch on a deal they signed in "good faith" with the union and federal goverment as it relates to pensions? I agree with 200%, I know of three companies, Hamilton as you say, and the nickel mines, Sudbury and Navistar in Chatham-kent. I do know that Navistar employees give up over 40 millions dollar of benfits, in 2003, when Navistar threaten to pull out then got money from Ontario and the feds to stay both, governments, should have been there for the workers, especially when Navistar owed money to both governmnts but they didn't they turn away. To date I'm told Navistar hasn't decided to stay or go, the plant is empty they don't really need the plant, since Mexico is producing most of the trucks. I think closing cost is keeping it open, cost millions of clean-up cost. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 HOF post. What is a HOF post? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Where its not fair, and you may not know this the government was asked by three other private company workers to help with their talks and they refused , saying they don't get involved in contract talks. It seems they have a double -standard on some issues. The govt 's point was the economy of the country, well the other three example, also related to the regions involved their ecomonies, which also affected the country through exports, reduction in EI fund etc. Given that the majority of times the legislation has been used has been by the Liberals....I am forced to ask, WTF are you going on about? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 What is a HOF post? "Hall of Fame" post. Congratulations! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 In 98 the pilots went out for two weeks and shut the airline down completely. The government didn't interfere then. One has to wonder what the rush was now. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
M.Dancer Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 In 98 the pilots went out for two weeks and shut the airline down completely. The government didn't interfere then. One has to wonder what the rush was now. http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1008461--remember-what-happened-in-the-last-air-canada-strike Lamar Durrett, who as chief executive officer presided over the airline during the strike, resigned the following August after shares fell to less than half their value in the month before the strike. Perhaps to prevent a repeat which would make AC a very tempting foreign take over target? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Wilber Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1008461--remember-what-happened-in-the-last-air-canada-strike Perhaps to prevent a repeat which would make AC a very tempting foreign take over target? Are you saying that strikes should be abolished because they might have an economic impact on the employer? There are laws in both Canada and the US that restrict foreign ownership of airlines. The law would have to be changed to allow a foreign takeover. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
M.Dancer Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Are you saying that strikes should be abolished because they might have an economic impact on the employer? Are you saying that you read into what is not written? There are laws in both Canada and the US that restrict foreign ownership of airlines. The law would have to be changed to allow a foreign takeover. You are right. 25% is the cap. There are of course ways around that, namely by using a Canadian shell. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Wilber Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Are you saying that you read into what is not written? I'm saying I read the link you posted and the inference seems to be that the government acted to prevent economic hardship to the company. If you meant something else, please explain. You are right. 25% is the cap. There are of course ways around that, namely by using a Canadian shell. Possibly but the law reads that 75% of voting shares must be owned by Canadians. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
M.Dancer Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Possibly but the law reads that 75% of voting shares must be owned by Canadians. Voting shares that are held by a shell (think a pension fund) would be Canadian, if the shell is located and managed in Canada, yet owned by another entity... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
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