Postal Strike Imminent

[Shwa]

You're paid by the paper + inserts and you only work 2 hours a day. It was about 5 years ago (I'm under 30). The good thing is that it's under the table (tax free... shhhh). So if you are working a 40k job and deliver papers in the mornings for another 10k, that incremental 10k is tax free. Of course this forum of public servants wouldn't understand working hard for your money.

No, but I bet "this forum of public servants" can certainly understand fraud and ripping off hard working Canadians while you cheat on your taxes...

Ohhh... wait. Now I know what you mean by "free market."

Just remember now, I know you are a tax cheat. I'll keep this in mind when I read your posts from here on in.

[CPCFTW]

No, but I bet "this forum of public servants" can certainly understand fraud and ripping off hard working Canadians while you cheat on your taxes...

Ohhh... wait. Now I know what you mean by "free market."

Just remember now, I know you are a tax cheat. I'll keep this in mind when I read your posts from here on in.

Poor public servants didn't get to tax my full income to pay for their DB pension plans!

Edited July 5, 2011 by CPCFTW

[Moonbox]

I've always worked in the private sector, for example.

And yet, strangely, I don't feel oppresed by those Public worker "elites."

Though occasionally, I have felt somewhat badly treated by the private tyrannies for which I've worked.

Well it depends on what you do for a living. If, for example, you're doing monkey work in the private sector, I don't think it's likely you'll be highly appreciated for your 'valuable' contributions. That would be because they're not valuable. The difference with the public sector, however, is that on average you'd get paid a fair bit more, have more job security, far better benefits, and a golden pension all at the taxpayer's expense for the exact same type of work.

There's nothing ideological about that. It's pretty simple fact.

[WWWTT]

How is a post office clerk, or a postal worker, any more qualified than a Tim Horton's or McDonald's employee? They're not!

So why is it that they're paid so much better? Literally anyone with two legs and basic literacy can do their job, so why are we, as taxpayers, paying more than we should for postal service for people who are trying to shake us down for even more? I know a lot of people who'd love to be paid $40-50k a year to do monkey work.

Ever heard of "Hard work","dedication","commitment"?

Canada post plays a very important role in Canada, there are some qualities required.

If Canada post does not provide insentive then they will just aswell adopt a revolving door hiring policy!

A company is only as good as its employees!

WWWTT

[TimG]

If Canada post does not provide insentive then they will just aswell adopt a revolving door hiring policy!

Then the union should just let Canada Post set the wage levels it wants and wait and see. The fact is people would still take Canada Post jobs even if the benefit packages were a fraction of what they are today. A desire to reduce turnover does not justify the current wage levels. Costco pay/benefit scales are a good reference for what levels would meet that requirement. Edited July 5, 2011 by TimG

[Battletoads]

Then the union should just let Canada Post set the wage levels it wants and wait and see. The fact is people would still take Canada Post jobs even if the benefit packages were a fraction of what they are today. A desire to reduce turnover does not justify the current wage levels. Costco pay/benefit scales are a good reference for what levels would meet that requirement.

Seeing as a Unions job is to get the best for its members, your idea is asinine.

[TimG]

Seeing as a Unions job is to get the best for its members, your idea is asinine.

I did not try to defend current wage/benefit levels as 'necessary' to prevent job turn over. If you want to use that argument then you need to let the companies figure out what the optimum levels are. If you want to argue that unions are motivated only by greed and simply milk the system for as much as they can then my comment does not apply.

[Moonbox]

Seeing as a Unions job is to get the best for its members, your idea is asinine.

What's more asinine is that you completely missed the point. We don't care what the union's job is. Of course they're going to try to get the best salaries/benefits for their employees. Collective bargaining only exists, however, to support the desires of an easily replaced (ie poorly skilled) workforce, or in the public service monopolies and protected industries.

The job of management/the government, however, is to ensure that their companies don't go under to the union's asinine demands and that the taxpayers don't get fleeced.

I'm not sure what's not getting through to people here. Postal worker skills are almost worthless. If it was in the private sector, they'd be earning the same wages and benefits of other two-legged barely literate drones workers.

[Battletoads]

What's more asinine is that you completely missed the point. We don't care what the union's job is. Of course they're going to try to get the best salaries/benefits for their employees. Collective bargaining only exists, however, to support the desires of an easily replaced (ie poorly skilled) workforce, or in the public service monopolies and protected industries.

The job of management/the government, however, is to ensure that their companies don't go under to the union's asinine demands and that the taxpayers don't get fleeced.

I'm not sure what's not getting through to people here. Postal worker skills are almost worthless. If it was in the private sector, they'd be earning the same wages and benefits of other two-legged barely literate drones workers.

I can list off numerous unions who's member work high skill, well paying jobs... Private and Public.

Oh, and unions exist to prevent the workers from getting screwed, plain and simple

[WWWTT]

What's more asinine is that you completely missed the point. We don't care what the union's job is. Of course they're going to try to get the best salaries/benefits for their employees. Collective bargaining only exists, however, to support the desires of an easily replaced (ie poorly skilled) workforce, or in the public service monopolies and protected industries.

The job of management/the government, however, is to ensure that their companies don't go under to the union's asinine demands and that the taxpayers don't get fleeced.

I'm not sure what's not getting through to people here. Postal worker skills are almost worthless. If it was in the private sector, they'd be earning the same wages and benefits of other two-legged barely literate drones workers.

You have not proven any of the statements here so the comments that you make are easily dissmissed!

However the job of the government is to ensure that postal service is easily accessible to Canadian citizens,business and international trade.When Canada post locked out the employees they put their interests ahead above those that rely on this part of infrastructure that you shamefully compare to "Tim Hortons" or "Costco"!

The Postal workers union and its members are ensuring or were attempting too ensure that this company maintains a higher standard that is required for an institution that warrants such actions.

WWWTT

[bloodyminded]

Well it depends on what you do for a living. If, for example, you're doing monkey work in the private sector, I don't think it's likely you'll be highly appreciated for your 'valuable' contributions.

If you wish to see "badly treated" as synoymous with "unlikely...[to be] highly appreciated," well, let's just say I see your attempt to redefine other posters' words for ideological ends and raise you two.

That would be because they're not valuable.

Human beings are innately valuable enough to not be treated poorly simply because they do menial work.

Ok, so you disagree. Clashing worldviews.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[cybercoma]

Seeing as a Unions job is to get the best for its members, your idea is asinine.

Unions are democratic. The Union doesn't do anything. They need their membership to vote on things. So whenever people say "the Union should" they might as well replace it with "the employees should". You can generalize that to anyone that's an employees even. And anyone says that "the employees should just take whatever the employers give them" is a fool.

Edited July 6, 2011 by cybercoma

[Shwa]

Poor public servants didn't get to tax my full income to pay for their DB pension plans!

Nor did you contribute your share to health care, roads, the military... a tax cheat is a tax cheat and you are one. You can justify all you want about public servants DB pension plans, but you aren't paying your fair share and committing fraud against the country.

[cybercoma]

And if he was a self-employed carrier making more than $30,000/year, he also failed to pay GST for the service he was providing.

[Moonbox]

Human beings are innately valuable enough to not be treated poorly simply because they do menial work.

Well 'treated poorly' is a pretty subjective term. I'm not really sure what a menial labourer is expecting from their boss, but it's unlikely that they're going to be told every day that they're special and delicate flowers. How they're treated is also not something that collective bargaining is really going to solve either. If your boss is a dick, I'm not sure how getting to bank sick days solves that.

There are labour laws in place to ensure that employees are at least treated reasonably, but I don't know what you're expecting here.

[Moonbox]

And if he was a self-employed carrier making more than $30,000/year, he also failed to pay GST for the service he was providing.

Well that's another matter altogether. I have no idea why self-employed people don't get audited like 5000x more often, because that would certainly cover a lot of our budgetary issues.

[bloodyminded]

Well 'treated poorly' is a pretty subjective term. I'm not really sure what a menial labourer is expecting from their boss, but it's unlikely that they're going to be told every day that they're special and delicate flowers. How they're treated is also not something that collective bargaining is really going to solve either. If your boss is a dick, I'm not sure how getting to bank sick days solves that.

There are labour laws in place to ensure that employees are at least treated reasonably, but I don't know what you're expecting here.

"Special and delicate flowers"?

The labour laws don't ensure that people are treated "reasonably"; they ensure there is some legal recourse, after the fact, if things get really out of hand.

Evidently, you don't see "treated reasonably" as subjective...but "treated poorly" is.

That's a telling contradiction, isn't it? At bottom, you assume the boss is reasonable; the dude doing "monkey work"...not necessarily.

What I am expecting is that employers treat their employees with dignity and respect.

I realize it's no great issue for those who wrinkle their noses delicately at the working poor. Monkeys are cute little guys, but sooo declass-ay.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[cybercoma]

Well that's another matter altogether. I have no idea why self-employed people don't get audited like 5000x more often, because that would certainly cover a lot of our budgetary issues.

Being an honest self-employed Canadian is a pain in the backside. The amount of paperwork and the complexity of the tax system is quite simply ridiculous for someone that can't afford an accountant to wade through that crap for them.

I remember when my wife began filing for HST, what a nightmare it was. No one could answer her questions. She wanted to file honestly, but for the first couple years she had no idea if she was doing it right. She must have talked to every last person working at CRA and they all gave her different answers. It was indeed a circus.

[fellowtraveller]

Unions are democratic. The Union doesn't do anything. They need their membership to vote on things. So whenever people say "the Union should" they might as well replace it with "the employees should".

You're on crack if you believe any of that.

People make careers in the union industry, just as their members do in whatever business they are involved in.

If you are a paid union exec and don't know how to manage the local in such a way as to get the members to support you personally and thereby ensure dinner is served at your house, and to vote the way they are steered, you're not much good at it.

[CPCFTW]

Nor did you contribute your share to health care, roads, the military... a tax cheat is a tax cheat and you are one. You can justify all you want about public servants DB pension plans, but you aren't paying your fair share and committing fraud against the country.

I'll more than pay my "share" to all that while making 6 figures in the private sector. Don't worry, the missing taxes from the 6 months I worked as a courier won't make or break your DB pension plan. Your extortion of the Canadian taxpayer will go on without it!

Next on Shwa's hit list: Single mothers not reporting the tips they earn as waitresses.

Edited July 6, 2011 by CPCFTW

[Sandy MacNab]

Unions are democratic. The Union doesn't do anything. They need their membership to vote on things. So whenever people say "the Union should" they might as well replace it with "the employees should". You can generalize that to anyone that's an employees even. And anyone says that "the employees should just take whatever the employers give them" is a fool.

Jimmy Hoffa - the prime example of a union "democrat".

[bloodyminded]

Jimmy Hoffa - the prime example of a union "democrat".

Yes, but the mob was just as involved in breaking unions, on the payroll from businesses.

It's interesting--and I suppose telling of our top-down class-warfare culture, elitist and sycophantic as it is--that such matters have not entered the popular imagination the way that mobbed-up unions have. I guess the more money and power you have, the more criminal behaviour is considered acceptable!

[Sandy MacNab]

Being an honest self-employed Canadian is a pain in the backside. The amount of paperwork and the complexity of the tax system is quite simply ridiculous for someone that can't afford an accountant to wade through that crap for them.

I remember when my wife began filing for HST, what a nightmare it was. No one could answer her questions. She wanted to file honestly, but for the first couple years she had no idea if she was doing it right. She must have talked to every last person working at CRA and they all gave her different answers. It was indeed a circus.

My experience has been that most folks are afraid, if not terrified, of CRA. They fear getting something wrong will trigger a CRA audit. The fact that sometimes CRA agents do give conflicting answers coupled with the additional fact that CRA manuals and other "helpful" documentation are difficult to understand, even by trained professionals, is making life hell for taxpayers. IMHO, this was deliberately set up by Trudeau and Edgar Benson to create an even larger bureacracy and a boost to the tax consulting industry.

[bloodyminded]

I have doubts about Trudeau's deliberateness on the matter. But I do wonder why a man like myself, of, say, average intelligence, feels like he's relearning it every damn year.

Oh, it might be me. Definitely. But enough people sympathize that I don't think it is.

[Oleg Bach]

Or he could have been a young kid or student or something or it could have been thirty years ago. Oleg, get a life. Your declarations like this are almost as dumb as the majority of your posts.

As usual your posts barely make any sense. There's always a price for your labour. It's up to you to make your labour valuable. You've made it pretty clear you don't know anything about that, however.

and CPCFTW, don't believe Oleg's story about marrying a rich heiress. Rich heiresses, or at least their parents, generally don't attach themselves, and therefore their money, to just anybody off the streets. Oleg has a VERY long history of making crap up here. I've read fairly numerous conflicting versions of his life stories. I doubt he's even remembered half of what he's told us.

So you are using the plural? "what he's told US" - you sound like the guy that gets the dumb kids in the play ground to gang up on one kid and beat them up. As for the heiress - we did not formally marry ...I am not someone "off the street" - where the hell did you get that attitude...people meet - they fall in love - simple as that. Some things are not about money - but in my case I suppose they were. The woman had the option of money or dumping me - she dumped me...big deal.

I don't have to "get a life" as you put it. I will be 61 years old in August - I had a life...and what is left of mine is what I make it....seems you resent me because I did not take the path most traveled - that I did what ever I pleased all of my life - and you will not.....ha ha.