The Bible

[cybercoma]

Hey betsy, what part of Canadien turning down your request did you not understand that you needed to create a new thread and keep harping on his/her faith?

[CANADIEN]

Experience has shown me that the size of overused large font in written comments is directly proportional to the user's sense of self-importance and in reverse proportion to the logic of what is being said. It is confirmed once again.

Back to the Bible, shall we?

Edited August 16, 2011 by CANADIEN

[betsy]

Back to the Bible, shall we?

Amen.

[betsy]

Taking a second look at this latest ahem fact, I am becoming less intrigued by the shall we say bizarre inclusing in the list, and more by what is missing.

No evolution (big surprise there). No relativity (even though, appatantly, Einstein worked from a Biblical worldview ). No Big Bang.

Perhaps they're an oversight? Well, whatever the author's reason(s) are from excluding some names from the list.....if he put them all, that list would've been loooooonger!

Einstein was mentioned among the Nobel Prize winners.

Anyway, that's not the only list I'd given.

FACT: “Many of the great scientists of the past who founded and developed the key disciplines of science were creationists!”

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=15

None of the scientific discoveries regarding the early origins of Man.

Which are?

Not even the periodic table of elements, or von Linné's taxinomy. I could understand the fear of the second (well...., he classified us as primates ), but one would have to explain to me how a classification of chemical element is a dangerous thing to acknowledge as being science.

Whose name is also Carl Linnaeus?

Well, not only was he in the other list that I'd given.....but I also have him as one of my facts!

FACT: SCIENTISTS NAME and CLASSIFY CREATURES

Carl Linnaeus, also known as Carl von Linné or Carolus Linnaeus, is often called the Father of Taxonomy. His system for naming, ranking, and classifying organisms is still in wide use today (with many changes). His ideas on classification have influenced generations of biologists during and after his own lifetime, even those opposed to the philosophical and theological roots of his work.

Linnaeus's Scientific Thought

Linnaeus loved nature deeply, and always retained a sense of wonder at the world of living things. His religious beliefs led him to natural theology, a school of thought dating back to Biblical times but especially flourishing around 1700: since God has created the world, it is possible to understand God's wisdom by studying His creation. As he wrote in the preface to a late edition of Systema Naturae: Creationis telluris est gloria Dei ex opere Naturae per Hominem solum -- The Earth's creation is the glory of God, as seen from the works of Nature by Man alone. The study of nature would reveal the Divine Order of God's creation, and it was the naturalist's task to construct a "natural classification" that would reveal this Order in the universe.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/linnaeus.html

Genesis 2

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

[Oleg Bach]

A touch warmer and we burn. A little bit further away and we freeze. The solar system is totally precise. It is like the perfect clock...Clocks do not evolve out of nothing through some mindless natural force. They are desighed.

[betsy]

Fact. Nothing about gravity in the Bible. Which is not a textbook.

Fact. Nothing about it in the Bible. Which is not a textbook.

And?

And where has it be found, again?

Correction. Many of them believed in God, and that He created the Universe. Not the same as subscribing to that fraud known as creationism or that non-sense that the Bible is a science textbook.

And 1 + 1 equals 2. Here, ladies and gentlemen, is the scientific proof of the existence of God.

Nope. it is not. Fact: you remain baffling.

And?

And some haven't. Always a matter of how a prophecy is interpreted.

And?

The link to the Bible being?

And?

mark my day. You got something right. Kind of... Someone could have come with the same disease-control methods by just observing and experimenting.

Which merely proves that the Bible, like many other eaqrly text, is based on interpreation of actual events.

And?

And?

Fact. As YOUR example demonstrate, these practices pre-dated Abraham.

And?

Both texts confirm each others. And?

Really?

Archaelogical findings prove that things ocured exactly as the Bible described them? They prove that the local inhabitants attempted to rape Abraham's guests? That Lot fled? How?

Been there. Debunked the premise.

Feel free to believe that the Bible is a science textbook. Thankfully, most Christians use their God-given ability to view the Bible as it is.

---------------

47 facts posted.....and counting.

Perhaps you don't like my style of delivery, or my approach.....but do you think you should try your best to de-bunk the Bible just so to prove me wrong?

I was expecting resistance and a battle when I created this topic....but I never expected that one of the most vicious opponent would be from someone claiming to be a Christian.

May I direct your attention to the reason(s) why this topic was posted?

This thread is created with the purpose of showing skeptics that the Bible is indeed The Word of God,

to promote an open-minded interest in reading and study of the Bible,

and to help strengthen the Christian faith in the face of relentless hostility and attacks.

So, with all the ridiculing hostility and attacks coming from you....will you fault me for mistaking you as an atheist - a new atheist at that?

I'm not giving evidences for the Bible for myself. I don't need any proof.

Faith suffices. I've said that all along.

However, I am debating with atheists, new atheists, and skeptics.

These people will not accept any reasons based on faith alone!

They want empirical evidences!

I'm telling them, THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD!

That, is, the heart of this topic!

Hence, if I'm going to reach out to anyone who don't believe in faith, especially to those who ridicule faith, and have them consider my argument(s)....I have to present them with some evidences.

Do you now understand why this thread - The Bible - mostly deals with SCIENCE?

If you're going to attack anyone....attack me, personally!

Not that all the facts listed here cannot stand on their own to prove their ground - because they can! CONFIDENTLY!

I'm not even going to address your mis-leading enumerations above, your so-called ridiculing rebuttals and "de-bunking" of the SCIENTIFIC PROOFS THAT SUPPORT THE BIBLE - for it seems that you talk out of ignorance!

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE FACTS POSTED HAVE BEEN IRREFUTABLY CONTRADICTED AT ALL - LET ALONE, DE-BUNKED!

But as you claim yourself to be a Christian....I ask that you re-read my posts for yourself, in the hope that you'll understand where I'm coming from.

If you think I'm erring or that my method is unacceptable....then direct your darts on me.

Edited August 21, 2011 by betsy

[Oleg Bach]

Just spoke to Jesus- He does not approve of your zealous notions...Betsy you seem to be very Muslim like and very book dependant. Just kidding about Jesus - but from what I understand - he did not like fanatics.

[Oleg Bach]

The fact that Betsy totally ignores me tells me a lot about her perception of Christianity. If I be the smallest sparrow - please give me a crumb of bread..I would like to be acknowledged as a human being and perhaps sent a bit of love - but not a drop from Betsy - the hypocrite.

[betsy]

Feel free to believe that the Bible is a science textbook. Thankfully, most Christians use their God-given ability to view the Bible as it is.

You latched onto that "Bible is a science textbook" – title of the article I’d given as a source – even though I explained that it’s not the title I’m stating as a fact, but rather a section of it.

Yet you still keep bringing it up – ignoring my explanation, thereby falsely attributing something that’s not obviously meant that way.

Just so to be fair to the author, let’s see what he really said:

The Bible Is a Textbook of Science

by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.*

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?" (John 3:12).

The Christian polemicist frequently is confronted with the problem of the scientific "errors" in Scripture, especially in its first eleven chapters. Often he is tempted to resort to the solution of neo-orthodoxy and to protest that "the Bible is, after all, not a textbook of science, but rather of religion." "It is meant to tell us the fact of creation, not the method of creation; it tells us who is Creator, not when or how He created. It points us to a confrontation with the Creator, not an understanding of earth history."

It is obvious, of course, that the Bible is not a scientific textbook in the sense of giving detailed technical descriptions and mathematical formulations of natural phenomena. But this is not adequate reason for questioning the objective accuracy of those numerous portions of Scripture which do deal with natural phenomena and historical events.

This type of apologetic device is both logically unsatisfactory and evangelistically unfruitful. How can an inquirer be led to saving faith in the divine Word if the context in which that Word is found is filled with error? How can he trust the Bible to speak truly when it tells of salvation and heaven and eternity which he is completely unable to verify empirically he finds that data which are subject to test are fallacious? Surely if God is really omnipotent and omniscient, He is as well able to speak with full truth and perspicuity when He speaks of earthly things as when He speaks of heavenly things.

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_tbiatos/

That sounds sensible to me.

Does it surprise you, Canadien, that science supports the Bible?

After all, who created knowledge and science?

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps science was given for a reason? That it is part of God’s plan? That there is a purpose for science? That it has a role to fulfill?

IN GOD'S OWN TIMETABLE?

ISAIAH 46:9-11

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.’

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;

from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.

What I have said, that I will bring about;

what I have planned, that I will do.

That verse above is one of the most powerful in its message!

Don't you think science was given by God to be used as His tool to reveal to us what He wants us to know, at His own leisure and time, as He had planned?

Daniel 4

The Dream Is Fulfilled

28 All this happened to King Nebuchadnezzar. 29 Twelve months later, as the king was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon, 30 he said, “Is not this the great Babylon I have built as the royal residence, by my mighty power and for the glory of my majesty?”

31 Even as the words were on his lips, a voice came from heaven, “This is what is decreed for you, King Nebuchadnezzar: Your royal authority has been taken from you. 32 You will be driven away from people and will live with the wild animals; you will eat grass like the ox. Seven times will pass by for you until you acknowledge that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes.”

33 Immediately what had been said about Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled. He was driven away from people and ate grass like the ox. His body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair grew like the feathers of an eagle and his nails like the claws of a bird.

34 At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.

His dominion is an eternal dominion;

his kingdom endures from generation to generation.

35 All the peoples of the earth

are regarded as nothing.

He does as he pleases

with the powers of heaven

and the peoples of the earth.

No one can hold back his hand

or say to him: “What have you done?”

Romans 8:28

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Ephesians 1:3-12

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

Edited August 21, 2011 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

Perhaps you don't like my style of delivery, or my approach.....but do you think you should try your best to de-bunk the Bible just so to prove me wrong?

Correction, I am not de-bunking the Bible. I am de-bunking your misinterpretation of the Bible, sicence and faith.

[CANADIEN]

Does it surprise you, Canadien, that science supports the Bible?

After all, who created knowledge and science?

Science neither supportsor negates the central truth of the Bible - that there is a God, creator of the Universe, who is loving and sent His Son Jesus Christ to redeem humankind. Knowledge of that truth is gained through faith, not science.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps science was given for a reason? That it is part of God’s plan? That there is a purpose for science? That it has a role to fulfill?

IN GOD'S OWN TIMETABLE?

Don't you think science was given by God to be used as His tool to reveal to us what He wants us to know, at His own leisure and time, as He had planned?

Then, why do you reject evolution, a FACT found through scientific knowledge?

[Oleg Bach]

She rejects evolution because she has choosen religiour bureacracy over God. Evolution and the study of it is just the disection of Gods creations - God does not tolerate fools - even Christian ones.

[betsy]

For Christians who may be interested...

ON GUARD: Defending Your Faith with Reason and Precision.

Hank Hanegraaff interviews William Lane Craig (on July, 2010)

[betsy]

Correction, I am not de-bunking the Bible. I am de-bunking your misinterpretation of the Bible, sicence and faith.

Mis-interpretation of the Bible? How?

Mis-interpretation of the Faith? How?

Mis-interpretation of Science? How?

Explain.

[Oleg Bach]

For Christians who may be interested...

ON GUARD: Defending Your Faith with Reason and Precision.

Hank Hanegraaff interviews William Lane Craig (on July, 2010)

Keep your mouth shut and there will be no need to defend - Christ stayed quiet when questioned by Pontius Pilate..maybe you should also - Christianity is not about aggression or defence..this is not a damned war.

[Oleg Bach]

Now we know why people blame religion for human suffering...Christianity is a state of mind - not a damned polical party.

[betsy]

Science neither supportsor negates the central truth of the Bible - that there is a God, creator of the Universe, who is loving and sent His Son Jesus Christ to redeem humankind. Knowledge of that truth is gained through faith, not science.

You're missing the point. I am not saying that Science is proving that there is a God.

But it cannot be denied that science does supports some of the claims in the Bible - 45-something as of last count? And still counting....

What do you think is the significance of that? To have 45- plus-something scientifically proven facts found in ONE ANCIENT BOOK written by a motley crew of people from diversed backgrounds?

I repeat, all these facts found in a single ancient book thousands of years before science!

What do you think of that?

Then, why do you reject evolution, a FACT found through scientific knowledge?

Why do you say that?

Didn't I say on numerous occasion that all Creationists believe in evolution? Evolution is a scientific fact...

BUT not the grandscale evolution of the Neo-Darwinist!

Since you claim to be a Christian, you do believe in Itelligent Design, don't you?

Will you state as a professed Christian - unashamedly - for the record where you really stand on this?

Edited August 21, 2011 by betsy

[GostHacked]

Didn't I say on numerous occasion that all Creationists believe in evolution? Evolution is a scientific fact...

Well at first you said that evolution on the whole was just a theory and did not exist at all, and now you at least admit that evolution is a FACT in some form or another.

Congratulations Betsy, this is called progress.

[CANADIEN]

You're missing the point. I am not saying that Science is proving that there is a God.

Whatever.

But it cannot be denied that science does supports some of the claims in the Bible - 45-something as of last count? And still counting....

What do you think is the significance of that? To have 45- plus-something scientifically proven facts found in ONE ANCIENT BOOK written by a motley crew of people from diversed backgrounds?

I repeat, all these facts found in a single ancient book thousands of years before science!

What do you think of that?

And science has proven their is a historic fundation to the Illiad and the Odyssee. Still, faith tells me that the Greek Gods didn't exist.

Why do you say that?

Didn't I say on numerous occasion that all Creationists believe in evolution? Evolution is a scientific fact...

Then will you kindly explain why a quick google led me to four different threads where you claimed that evolution is a de-bunked theory?

[betsy]

Whatever.

And science has proven their is a historic fundation to the Illiad and the Odyssee. Still, faith tells me that the Greek Gods didn't exist.

History. Because a lot of writings, imcluding fiction are partly based on or inspired by something factual.

We're talking about the other stuffs in the Bible.

Anyway, why do you seem so determined to show that science does not support the Bible?

Then will you kindly explain why a quick google led me to four different threads where you claimed that evolution is a de-bunked theory?

You haven't explained where you truly stand on origin, how the world - including everything -came to exist. Are you ashamed to say who created you?

[betsy]

Canadien, your reaction(s) seem to stem more from your indignation that I dare disrespect science by showing it supports the Bible.

Has science become your god?

[CANADIEN]

Anyway, why do you seem so determined to show that science does not support the Bible?

Correction. I am determined to debunk misrepresentations of the Bible, sicence and faith such as yours.

You haven't explained where you truly stand on origin (...)

I have. Your claim that I haven't proves that your are either a liar, or lacking in understanding of the English language. :angry:

Edited August 21, 2011 by CANADIEN

[betsy]

I have. Your claim that I haven't proves that your are either a liar, or lacking in understanding of the English language. :angry:

Ohhh, never mind the angry face!

Lighten up or you'll really be mistaken for a new atheist - always angry or uptight about something!

What you explained sometime ago....it was not exactly definitive (that's why I mistook you for a non-Christian). If I remember it correctly, I was arguing for Intelligent Design....and you blasted it away too.

But this time, how about a difinitive explanation? Here, let's make it more simple.

Do you believe in Intelligent Design?

Just a simple yes or no will do. Whisper it to me....

Edited August 21, 2011 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

Ohhh, never mind the angry face!

Lighten up or you'll really be mistaken for a new atheist - always angry or uptight about something!

Do you actually believe I give any credence to who you think I am?

What you explained sometime ago...

Was clear enough for everybody else. And so was the fact that I have said all I need and all I want to say to you about my faith. Obviously, the English language is yet another thing you don't understand.

Edited August 21, 2011 by CANADIEN

[betsy]

Do you actually believe I give any credence to who you think I am?

Was clear enough for everybody else. And so was the fact that I have said all I need and all I want to say to you about my faith. Obviously, the English language is yet another thing you don't understand.

Anyway, whatever.

Edited August 21, 2011 by betsy