How the NDP frustrates me

[pegasus]

Then you should have participated in the party and got yourself nominated. You didn't. You could have ran as an independent new democrat. You din't. Too bad, so sad.

I wish I could have. There was no NDP party here before the election was called. Since the election, I have asked to participate, but once again, I was turned down I'm beginning to think the NDP party just wants stupid people in their ranks and any assistance is useless to them. Hey, they are the big official opposition now. They don't need any help from those who were around when the party had 20 or so seats.

Edited May 7, 2011 by pegasus

[Smallc]

I wish I could have. There was no NDP party here before the election was called. Since the election, I have asked to participate, but once again, I was turned down

First, yes, there was an NDP party there, even if there isn't much of one, and second, if you were turned down, there's far more to the story.

[Oleg Bach]

I wish I could have. There was no NDP party here before the election was called. Since the election, I have asked to participate, but once again, I was turned down

I think you are just making this story up. Getting turned down by the NDP is like being refused a date back in high school by the least attractive girl in town...maybe you are simply inferior...turned down by the NDP? Holy cow - that is an insult!

[pegasus]

First, yes, there was an NDP party there, even if there isn't much of one, and second, if you were turned down, there's far more to the story.

If there was, I had no idea where the office was (I called 411 for this information), however, once the election was called, I saw the campaign office on Eugene-Lamontagne Ave. here in Quebec City, and I went there.

[Smallc]

If there was, I had no idea where the office was (I called 411 for this information), however, once the election was called, I saw the campaign office on Eugene-Lamontagne Ave. here in Quebec City, and I went there.

I'm thinking you didn't put much effort into any of this.

[pegasus]

I think you are just making this story up. Getting turned down by the NDP is like being refused a date back in high school by the least attractive girl in town...maybe you are simply inferior...turned down by the NDP? Holy cow - that is an insult!

I wish I was making this story up. To me it is one of the biggest jokes, and major insult that I have ever had to endure. And I am curious if there were any others who were also turned down as potential candidates for the NDP party, who had stronger qualifications than those who ran as candidates.

[pegasus]

I'm thinking you didn't put much effort into any of this.

Apparently, neither did Rousseau. But at least, I would have put in a greater effort during the campaign than she did.

Edited May 8, 2011 by pegasus

[Oleg Bach]

I wish I was making this story up. To me it is one of the biggest jokes, and major insult that I have ever had to endure. And I am curious if there were any others who were also turned down as potential candidates for the NDP party, who had stronger qualifications than those who ran as candidates.

Years ago I was in the song writing buisness and used to deal with major record companies - It's all about the worst and most insecure parts of human nature. For instanced a musical producer needs to have a job. Engineers need to work - all guard their positions. Like a political party that finally is established it becomes a closed shop... If I recorded a piece of music and the production was superiour to that of the established producer - I would be rejected. As a young person you assume if you are good at something that you will be excepted - of course why not you would think? BUT some times you are rejected not because you are bad - but because you are good.

The NDP used to be the common guys party - but they are now establishment. Establishment protect their perimeters. Put it to you straight and give you some advice - If you want in play stupid - don't show your cards and appear to be controlable.....getting back to the music industry - If a record company finds the artist to be great but uncontrolable - they will choose the less talented and more compliant over the more qualified...that's just the way it works - so dummy down!

[pegasus]

Years ago I was in the song writing buisness and used to deal with major record companies - It's all about the worst and most insecure parts of human nature. For instanced a musical producer needs to have a job. Engineers need to work - all guard their positions. Like a political party that finally is established it becomes a closed shop... If I recorded a piece of music and the production was superiour to that of the established producer - I would be rejected. As a young person you assume if you are good at something that you will be excepted - of course why not you would think? BUT some times you are rejected not because you are bad - but because you are good.

The NDP used to be the common guys party - but they are now establishment. Establishment protect their perimeters. Put it to you straight and give you some advice - If you want in play stupid - don't show your cards and appear to be controlable.....getting back to the music industry - If a record company finds the artist to be great but uncontrolable - they will choose the less talented and more compliant over the more qualified...that's just the way it works - so dummy down!

So I basically should have dumbed it down for the NDP? I could understand this way of thinking if I was applying for a job at a gas station, but for one of the most important positions in Canada? This doesn't make sense. What kind of strange system is this, where if a natural disaster or war was to break out in Canada witbin the next four years that a few teenagers and a barmaid would be whisked away and get the full protection of the country, while those with any skill would be left to die.

[Wild Bill]

I wish I was making this story up. To me it is one of the biggest jokes, and major insult that I have ever had to endure. And I am curious if there were any others who were also turned down as potential candidates for the NDP party, who had stronger qualifications than those who ran as candidates.

You may find the old Reform Party process interesting, Pegasus. Local ridings were expected to have candidates nominated by local members. Any candidate had to belong to the party for at least a month and also any member to be allowed to vote.

There was an interview process for any nominated candidate to make sure they suited the party style, understood the party platforms and philosophies, didn't have any skeletons in the closet and most important, they had to have their personal finances in order and be able to post a small bond with the party. The latter was to ensure candidates who weren't running just because they were desperate for a job to pay outstanding bills.

A general meeting of the riding association would be called and a secret ballot held. Every member of the riding could vote. The winner became the party's candidate for the next election.

Only in cases of extreme urgency would HQ interfere with the local process. If they REALLY wanted a star candidate that was not enough! That star candidate would still have to win a nomination election but of course if he or she was really that much of a star winning would be easy!

Sometimes in some ridings where the chances of winning were poor it was hard to scrape up a candidate but as much effort as possible was always made to keep standards high and respect local riding choices.

The effort was necessary because it was always a worry that someone with a hidden agenda would be trying to hijack the party's popularity for their own mission. Those people were always "turfed" as soon as they were discovered. Effort at the front end of the vetting process kept those actions to a minimum.

I don't know if the NDP was or is equally democratic and populist but from what I witnessed many times here in Hamilton the Liberal party seemed to consider riding nominations to be a mere formality. Almost always people like Sheila Copps or Tony Valeri were protected against facing a nomination challenge. When their two ridings were merged they were forced to battle it out and that war became national news! The dirty tactics I personally witnessed committed by Ms Copps team thoroughly disgusted me! I knew Tony Valeri rather well and considered him an honourable man, far more than "Tequila Sheila".

Anyhow, it sounds like your mistake was to approach the position of candidate as a job interview. This is politics, after all! You should have made your intentions known to the local riding people at least several months earlier. If you had taken the time to make yourself known as a committed member first and then an ambitious candidate you would almost certainly have been up for consideration. You have to approach becoming a local candidate with the same style as being a candidate actually campaigning to be the MP! It is not a test where you must pass with a certain mark. It is politics and politics at every level is a popularity contest!

It may seem to you that the NDP just picked people at random anyway, with less qualifications than you. You're probably right, but I'll bet they knew those they DID choose on a personal level better than you! When you don't know much about any of your choices you don't just compare resumes. Again, this is politics! You try to go with personal impressions.

IMHO, of course! Please don't get discouraged. If I were you I would become an active volunteer in my local riding and make sure that the riding executives all know of my ambitions. If you pay your dues then with the qualifications you mentioned it would be very hard for them to refuse you at least the chance of winning a nomination vote.

[Oleg Bach]

Also - you would assume that the world is under control of the best and brightest. Not so! It is controlled by the ambitious......"The raging flames of greatness burn in but a few, the cool embers of success glow in many"...It is horrifically frustrating when you figure out the system. A personal example is the fact that I am a mature 60 year old man with a lot of skill - talent - in many creative fields...There is an older gentleman I have the odd chat with - He is an acquaintance from my distant past..There is a difference between us - I ended up on welfare - and he swings mulit-billion dollar deals. It was he who educated me on the fact that we live in a quietly repressive society.

He was born privledged and recieved the best training. I was the son of a Russian immigrant who endured the tail end of revolution and war. I have been in this nation all my life. The difference between me and my investment banker buddy is this - He has a rule of thumb...never help anyone unless it furthers your own position...His second rule is never give anyone anything ever - third rule...try to obtain your wealth and power with out cost - In other words plunder in a very sophisticated manner that is exceptable. BUT the conclution that is most frustrating is that this man knows that I am brighter - than he...and he makes sure that he maintains power...That is why the great artists all die in poverty while their works sell for millions years later.

To give a man money that is smarter than you is not smart...and even the not so smart understand that basic dogma. So to make a long story longer - you have to play stupid if you want to get ahead _ I did not know that and it is to late for me - but not for you.

[pegasus]

Also - you would assume that the world is under control of the best and brightest. Not so! It is controlled by the ambitious......"The raging flames of greatness burn in but a few, the cool embers of success glow in many"...It is horrifically frustrating when you figure out the system. A personal example is the fact that I am a mature 60 year old man with a lot of skill - talent - in many creative fields...There is an older gentleman I have the odd chat with - He is an acquaintance from my distant past..There is a difference between us - I ended up on welfare - and he swings mulit-billion dollar deals. It was he who educated me on the fact that we live in a quietly repressive society.

He was born privledged and recieved the best training. I was the son of a Russian immigrant who endured the tail end of revolution and war. I have been in this nation all my life. The difference between me and my investment banker buddy is this - He has a rule of thumb...never help anyone unless it furthers your own position...His second rule is never give anyone anything ever - third rule...try to obtain your wealth and power with out cost - In other words plunder in a very sophisticated manner that is exceptable. BUT the conclution that is most frustrating is that this man knows that I am brighter - than he...and he makes sure that he maintains power...That is why the great artists all die in poverty while their works sell for millions years later.

To give a man money that is smarter than you is not smart...and even the not so smart understand that basic dogma. So to make a long story longer - you have to play stupid if you want to get ahead _ I did not know that and it is to late for me - but not for you.

Thank you. If you speak as well as you write, there may be well-paying jobs for you out there I will not give up, but I am not a great fan of the Reform platform. I plan to change my affiliation unless the NDP party accepts me as a participating member. If no, I will campaign against any NDP incumbent using the information that I have learned during this election process. Which party will that be? I have not yet made that choice, and I am hoping that the NDP party contacts me so that I can help them during the next 4 years, so I won't have to make that choice.

[ba1614]

Apparently, neither did Rousseau. But at least, I would have put in a greater effort during the campaign than she did.

Do you mean Brousseau? Are you aware that she has never even visited the riding she won? Never even been there!

[pegasus]

Head up to your local Liberal Riding Association and tell them your experience. Ask not what they can do for you, but what you can do for them. Participate in the rebuild. Get your ideas into the grassroots. Listen and provide honest feedback.

You are the type of individual that the Liberals should be actively seeking out and offering membership to.

I have really considered this. I figure the Liberal party has nowhere left to go than up. And if the NDP party doen't much care as to who runs as candidates, then it may not be the party I hoped it could be.

[pegasus]

Do you mean Brousseau? Are you aware that she has never even visited the riding she won? Never even been there!

Yes. I meant Brousseau. Whoops. BTW I have visited that riding.

[Oleg Bach]

Thank you. If you speak as well as you write, there may be well-paying jobs for you out there I will not give up, but I am not a great fan of the Reform platform. I plan to change my affiliation unless the NDP party accepts me as a participating member. If no, I will campaign against any NDP incumbent using the information that I have learned during this election process. Which party will that be? I have not yet made that choice, and I am hoping that the NDP party contacts me so that I can help them during the next 4 years, so I won't have to make that choice.

The oppostion is going to need a good person - sometimes you may have simply ran into a jerk - You must take rejection in a better spirit and not turn away - One person may say no ---and a week later another person in authority might say yes...don't walk away - go back and try again...just tell em Al sent you...lol............with me I could not bare rejection...if rejected once I would walk away and hide for years..That was an error. Human beings all differ. I am sure you will have results if you want it. First you have to firmly decide what you want. Then you will have it. Who knows - in fifteen years you may be the Prime Minister...and I will be remembered as the old guy that encouraged you do endure...some things take time. I always wanted to be a hot lead guitarist...So at 57 I made an effort - now at 60 I can set the stage on fire - so can you!

[pegasus]

I am never one to give up. I thrive on challenges. I was orphaned as a child and worked myself through the various levels of the education system and since then, I have wanted to give back to my community all the things that were given to me. That is why I volunteered for so long, helping those who I considered to be most in need. I'm stating a fact that I love my country and would give anything to be able to serve it in one capacity or another. Right now, I work indirectly for the government, but I don't feel like I am actually contributing much. And since all my applications to work for the Federal Government have thus far been rejected or put on hold, I was hoping to run as a candidate for the party I have supported from the time I was first able to vote. That is why I feel unbelievably discouraged.

[punked]

I wish I could have. There was no NDP party here before the election was called. Since the election, I have asked to participate, but once again, I was turned down I'm beginning to think the NDP party just wants stupid people in their ranks and any assistance is useless to them. Hey, they are the big official opposition now. They don't need any help from those who were around when the party had 20 or so seats.

I moved into my ridding a few years ago. When I showed up there was no ridding association here either. I saw election planning being very week so I called up some provincial members I knew and we started the search for a candidate. From there people starting asking us about the ridding association so we called an AGM line up a list of people who we thought would help us figure it all it. Long story short we now have a NDP MP after a lot of hard work. That is what it takes.

[pegasus]

I moved into my ridding a few years ago. When I showed up there was no ridding association here either. I saw election planning being very week so I called up some provincial members I knew and we started the search for a candidate. From there people starting asking us about the ridding association so we called an AGM line up a list of people who we thought would help us figure it all it. Long story short we now have a NDP MP after a lot of hard work. That is what it takes.

I understand, but apparently not all ridings had candidates lined up less than a week after the call of the election. That was when I was prepared. I had people in the riding I wanted to run in who were prepared to help me out. I didn't do this all willy nilly. I went to Montreal and collected a few signatures from friends and family, then returned home to Quebec City and stood in front of a Maxi store and asked people to sign, because I planned to run as an NDP member in a riding in Montreal. I had no problems getting signatures.

I then figured I'd return to the NDP office here in Quebec, inform them I've been a long time member, find out which ridings are available, (preferably the one in Montreal where I grew up, but any would have been OK with me). I would have then traveled to wherever that would be (I had a few hundred dollars saved up), meet the people of that riding by going door to door and basically just enjoy the experience, with no expectations of winning. Just for the awesome experience so that one day I could say that I participated in this.

But I was rejected in 20 minutes, because I was considered unqualified. I'm sure other candidates the NDP ran were nowhere near as prepared as I was when they joined the fray.

[punked]

I understand, but apparently not all ridings had candidates lined up less than a week after the call of the election. That was when I was prepared. I had people in the riding I wanted to run in who were prepared to help me out. I didn't do this all willy nilly. I went to Montreal and collected a few signatures from friends and family, then returned home to Quebec City and stood in front of a Maxi store and asked people to sign, because I planned to run as an NDP member in a riding in Montreal. I had no problems getting signatures.

I then figured I'd return to the NDP office here in Quebec, inform them I've been a long time member, find out which ridings are available, (preferably the one in Montreal where I grew up, but any would have been OK with me). I would have then traveled to wherever that would be (I had a few hundred dollars saved up), meet the people of that riding by going door to door and basically just enjoy the experience, with no expectations of winning. Just for the awesome experience so that one day I could say that I participated in this.

But I was rejected in 20 minutes, because I was considered unqualified. I'm sure other candidates the NDP ran were nowhere near as prepared as I was when they joined the fray.

It is not because you were unqualified. That isn't how the party works your story is full of holes though. You went out to get signatures, brought them into the head office before you knew where they needed someone to run and asked them to run you somewhere. I am sure the NDP where making calls all March 26th trying to line up who they would run, if you were a week into the election and walked then you were doing it to late. They were pounding the pavement already by the 4th or the 5th. Heck they had all their candidate nominations approved by the 10th.

Sorry your story makes no sense. I have worked in the party in a number of provinces, never Quebec and it just does not add up.

[pegasus]

It is not because you were unqualified. That isn't how the party works your story is full of holes though. You went out to get signatures, brought them into the head office before you knew where they needed someone to run and asked them to run you somewhere. I am sure the NDP where making calls all March 26th trying to line up who they would run, if you were a week into the election and walked then you were doing it to late. They were pounding the pavement already by the 4th or the 5th. Heck they had all their candidate nominations approved by the 10th.

Sorry your story makes no sense. I have worked in the party in a number of provinces, never Quebec and it just does not add up.

Please explain to me what "holes" you are referring to.

I find it odd that the NDP had chosen their candidates before the official call of the election. Please explain how this works? And if this is the case, how come candidates were placed in ridings they have never visited or lived in before? What is the process of choosing what candidates serve which ridings?

I am curious. For future reference, you seem to know quite a bit about how the process works. I am interested in learning all I can, so that in four years from now I can be better prepared. From what you are telling me, its never too early to start the campaign.

[pegasus]

I was in Montreal the weekend of March 19th and 20th, where I asked my frinds and family to sign my list, I then returned to Quebec and on the 21st, 22nd and halfway through the 23rd, I spent abut 4 hours a day, after work, collecting signatures. I went to the NDP office on Eugene-Lamontagne Ave. after work on Thursday the 24th.

So this was before your magical 26th. I wasn't too late.

[ReeferMadness]

The NDP has a process that must be followed to select a candidate. First a Candidate search committee has to be struck up. These people go out and talk community members asking them if they would consider running. My committee which I sat on talked 100 people. This has to be done and a report must be filed with Ottawa before you can actually select a Candidate.

Then you have a nomination meeting of which notice is sent all members in the ridding a month before the meeting so that every who wants to run can declare their intent and start signing up members. A week before the meeting nominations are closed so that everyone who has put their name forward knows who and who isn't running.

Then you have a nomination meeting where members from the ridding vote on who their nominee will be. That is the long and short of it. There are some rules and regulations but that is how it goes. I also believe you MUST be a member for a month BEFORE the nomination. Sounds to me this guy WASN'T a members so they tossed him to the curb because those are the rules.

That sounds like a decent process. So, how was Ruth Ellen Brosseau chosen? If she has any obvious qualifications for being an MP, they haven't been reported in the media. She lived hundreds of kilometers from her riding and through the election didn't even bother to visit it. Her French is reportedly very weak.

I know it sounds cynical but it seems like the NDP just wanted a photogenic individual with a French surname.

[punked]

That sounds like a decent process. So, how was Ruth Ellen Brosseau chosen? If she has any obvious qualifications for being an MP, they haven't been reported in the media. She lived hundreds of kilometers from her riding and through the election didn't even bother to visit it. Her French is reportedly very weak.

I know it sounds cynical but it seems like the NDP just wanted a photogenic individual with a French surname.

I don't know how she was chosen. I only know how other candidates I have worked with are chosen.

[ReeferMadness]

I don't know how she was chosen. I only know how other candidates I have worked with are chosen.

Well, it seems like in Quebec, they didn't have the same degree of rigor that you had.