A question of Democracy

betsy · May 5, 2011

How loosely the term democracy was bandied about as a weapon to smear Harper. Dictatorial, was another.

Most of the folks who quickly picked up the attack words have never really lived or experienced being under a dictator nor an un-democratic government. Perhaps it's why they fail to see the irony...

Under a dictatorship or undemocratic government, propaganda plays a major role. Telecomunications and all other media become the most effective tool.

The events that unfolded leading to the elections showed the imbalance and/or distortion of information. The biased opinion-laden newscasting of journalists, the deceitful efforts to undermine the election result should not be taken lightly by all....whether you're a blue or a red or whatever party you support.

What happened to the people's right to know? What good is it to know....if you cannot rely on the credibility of those who gives you the information?

Media should be un-biased in their reporting. We have a serious problem.

Dave_ON · May 5, 2011

Can you cite specific examples of bias by specific news agencies or news casters? I don't want the standard Conservative blanket drivel of the MSN is Liberal, real examples please.

I don't think you realize what biased media is like. I travel a great deal in the US, roughtly 30 weeks or so a year. I simply cannot abide listening to any radio or, news station there as they are rampantly biased. Fox is terrible, NBC is just as bad, as is ABC, the only one that is kind of ok is CNN and even they are clearly slanted. You want to see vicious media attacks, tune into FOX when the talk about Obama, you'll see wildly unfounded propaganda.

Further, do you think that the government has executive priviledge? Is it the right of government to with hold information from Parliament? Now many of the issues that existed in the past are exactly that past and are non issues now that we have a majority situation however, the fact remains.

You are right, we do have a right to know, we have a right to know how much of our tax dollars will be invested in military spending, on prisons on any number of other government projects. This is the issue many take, and many hyperbolize on. This is not peculiar to those who oppose Harper. You should well remember the "anti-democratic" drivel the CPC was serving up during the coaltion talks and it held as much weight as the current non-sense does. If we're going to have a serious discussion about this, let's put to rest the illusion right this minut that Mr. Harper and the CPC are blameless in all matters, let's put to rest that they didn't do anything "wrong" or remotely liberal style underhanded.

The people have a right to know, if you truly believe this than why are you not equally upset at being deceived by Mr. Harper and the CPC on numerous spending projects?

Battletoads · May 5, 2011

Can you cite specific examples of bias by specific news agencies or news casters? I don't want the standard Conservative blanket drivel of the MSN is Liberal, real examples please.

I don't think you realize what biased media is like. I travel a great deal in the US, roughtly 30 weeks or so a year. I simply cannot abide listening to any radio or, news station there as they are rampantly biased. Fox is terrible, NBC is just as bad, as is ABC, the only one that is kind of ok is CNN and even they are clearly slanted. You want to see vicious media attacks, tune into FOX when the talk about Obama, you'll see wildly unfounded propaganda.

Further, do you think that the government has executive priviledge? Is it the right of government to with hold information from Parliament? Now many of the issues that existed in the past are exactly that past and are non issues now that we have a majority situation however, the fact remains.

You are right, we do have a right to know, we have a right to know how much of our tax dollars will be invested in military spending, on prisons on any number of other government projects. This is the issue many take, and many hyperbolize on. This is not peculiar to those who oppose Harper. You should well remember the "anti-democratic" drivel the CPC was serving up during the coaltion talks and it held as much weight as the current non-sense does. If we're going to have a serious discussion about this, let's put to rest the illusion right this minut that Mr. Harper and the CPC are blameless in all matters, let's put to rest that they didn't do anything "wrong" or remotely liberal style underhanded.

The people have a right to know, if you truly believe this than why are you not equally upset at being deceived by Mr. Harper and the CPC on numerous spending projects?

I am also waiting on the edge of my seat for specific examples of bias from the MSM. Surely they can easily be pointed out if the media is a biased as betsy says it is.

Bryan · May 5, 2011

Fox is terrible, NBC is just as bad, as is ABC, the only one that is kind of ok is CNN and even they are clearly slanted. You want to see vicious media attacks, tune into FOX when the talk about Obama, you'll see wildly unfounded propaganda.

CBC is much worse than Fox.

Shwa · May 5, 2011

How loosely the term democracy was bandied about as a weapon to smear Harper. Dictatorial, was another.

Most of the folks who quickly picked up the attack words have never really lived or experienced being under a dictator nor an un-democratic government. Perhaps it's why they fail to see the irony...

Under a dictatorship or undemocratic government, propaganda plays a major role. Telecomunications and all other media become the most effective tool.

The events that unfolded leading to the elections showed the imbalance and/or distortion of information. The biased opinion-laden newscasting of journalists, the deceitful efforts to undermine the election result should not be taken lightly by all....whether you're a blue or a red or whatever party you support.

What happened to the people's right to know? What good is it to know....if you cannot rely on the credibility of those who gives you the information?

Media should be un-biased in their reporting. We have a serious problem.

This issue has been beated to death on this board. The real "serious problem" is that most folks do not exercise their "right to know." If you want to "know" then I strongly suggest you read 'Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media' by Edward Herman & Noam Chomsky. There are plenty of other media-illuminating books, but this one is outstanding in the way they model how the media works. There is a media bias, but it is not as you think it is.

Once you have finished this book then I suggust a primer on semiotics and here is the web version of Daniel Chandler's 'Semiotics for Beginners' primer, which you can also purchase in book form from any of the major book sellers.

Then after that you may wish to read a few more books or papers on literary criticism, historicism, etc. I have suggestions if you want.

But the above two should enlighten you enough to show you that there is far more 'propaganda' being blasted into your mind than you think; including the idea that there is a 'liberal bias' in the media, which is a prime example of propaganda.

Smallc · May 5, 2011

CBC is much worse than Fox.

Based on what? CBC doesn't have blowhards yelling after their news time ends.

Topaz · May 5, 2011

The only media outlet that APPEARED to be bias was CTV or was it Duffy but then CTV allowed him to be and it paid off for him. CBC, I think they have to be careful because the Tories hold the purse strings. I hope they stay neutral and go after all parties.

Topaz · May 5, 2011

The democracy is what Harper broke and only in a minority government can that happen. Harper didn't seem to care one way or another but it will go down in the history, unless he controls them too. My question now , what is going to happen to the two Tory senators charge with fraud and other sandals that we had at the end of the last session? Will Harper just sweep everything under the rug? Can he? We'll see how much he cares about democracy.

BubberMiley · May 5, 2011

Media should be un-biased in their reporting. We have a serious problem.

I agree. Consider all the reports as the NDP surged that the Canadian dollar, while increasing, was not increasing in line with other currencies against the US dollar and that this was clearly because of the potential of a minority government/NDP opposition.

Then, when it turned out to be a majority CPC government, did the dollar fall in line with those currencies?

Nope. It dropped and has continued to drop.

Where's the speculation about the political causes now?

It was clear from their almost unanimous endorsement that the MSM wanted a CPC majority badly.

It's also clear that there are many paranoid conservatives who see their friends as enemies.

Smallc · May 5, 2011

Then, when it turned out to be a majority CPC government, did the dollar fall in line with those currencies?

Nope. It dropped and has continued to drop.

That depends which currency. It's gained ground on the Pound and the Australian Dollar, but has lost value relative to the Euro and Us Dollar.

RNG · May 5, 2011

CBC is much worse than Fox.

As much as I criticize the CBC as the Communist Broadcasting Corporation, they aren't as bad as Fox.

Dave_ON · May 5, 2011

CBC is much worse than Fox.

Ok I get it, you're a CPC mouth piece, but seriously, have you ever even watched FAUX news?

Shwa · May 5, 2011

Ok I get it, you're a CPC mouth piece, but seriously, have you ever even watched FAUX news?

Tsk, tsk, tsk Dave, now you are going to receive a heap of steaming scorn from the Fauxers on the board.

Once they sober up from their election victory parties that is...

noahbody · May 5, 2011

Can you cite specific examples of bias by specific news agencies or news casters?

Lloyd Robertson asking Harper is he was going to be a nicer guy.

betsy · May 5, 2011

Sun News, at least, is upfront about its political leaning! They are right-wing! They say so!

CBC, and other media should be upfront as well and indicate where they lean, unless they can keep their bias in check and deliver ethical journatlistic reporting. To posture as an unbiased media is mis-leading.

Media, with its own agenda, is poison to democracy!

Edited May 5, 2011 by betsy

RNG · May 5, 2011

Sun News, at least, is upfront about its political leaning! They are right-wing! They say so!

CBC, and other media should be upfront as well and indicate where they lean, unless they can keep their bias in check and deliver ethical journatlistic reporting. To posture as an unbiased media is mis-leading.

Media, with its own agenda, is poison to democracy!

I do not agree. For years I read the Guardian. At that time it was the Manchester Guardian. I'm strong right. They are very strong left. And they brag about it. However, I really respect them, or at least them then. I haven't read them for some years now. Their editorial position, their op-eds etc were very left. But their news stories were very factual and insightful. And they kept it very obvious which was which.

cybercoma · May 5, 2011

Under a dictatorship or undemocratic government, propaganda plays a major role. Telecomunications and all other media become the most effective tool.

Indeed they do. That's why I can't see a picture of Ignatieff without immediately thinking, "He didn't come back for you!", or look at a picture of Harper without thinking, "soldiers in the streets!"

We need reform that does not allow parties to advertise or campaign against other parties outside of an election run.

betsy · May 5, 2011

The CBC's left-wing bias
By Ezra Levant on May 13, 2010 9:54 PM | Permalink | Comments (42)

I see that the CBC is going to investigate itself to determine whether it has a left-wing bias.

My favourite line in the news story is this:

CBC refused to comment on the study’s methodology...

So you've got the CBC investigating the CBC about the CBC's own fairness. But the CBC won't or can't demonstrate that the bias investigation isn't biased.

But I actually have a little story to tell about this myself.

After the 2006 election, I was invited by the CBC's chairman to attend their board of directors' retreat in New Brunswick, to give advice on what to make of the new Conservative government.

I took the task seriously, canvassing several cabinet ministers and even the Prime Minister's Office before my visit. It won't surprise you to know that my report was not well received by the president of the CBC at the time, Robert Rabinovitch (I'm not kidding, he physically fell out of his chair). But it might surprise you to learn that a number of board members were very sympathetic to my assessment. (It was clear to me from Rabinovitch's interactions with the board, though, that they were not a true board of directors with actual authority. Rather, they seemed more like a politically correct, demographically correct focus group, and that Rabinovitch was humouring them, not being directed by them). There has since been a complete turnover in directors, and I do not know if they are still treated as window-dressing. But they were then.

I'm not going to disclose my advice to the CBC, but I do feel at liberty to disclose one of the messages that I was asked to convey to the CBC by a cabinet minister.

In the wake of the 2006 federal election, the CBC had been accused of anti-Conservative bias and then, like now, the CBC launched an investigation into itself.

The CBC promised to give this study to the cabinet minister when it was complete. But they didn't. The cabinet minister had asked for it, but it was not sent (nor made public), even months after the election. That minister asked me to request it again.

When I put the minister's request for that study to Rabinovitch, he was clearly uncomfortable, and at least one director pressed him on the subject. (That may have been when he fell out of his chair, I can't recall.)

I do not know if the CBC ever gave that study to the cabinet minister; I did a cursory search of the CBC's own website today and didn't find it published (please correct me if I'm wrong).

More…..

http://ezralevant.com/2010/05/the-cbcs-leftwing-bias.html

The CBC can go on in its biased, unethical reporting because unlike other networks, the CBC is not beholden to viewers and advertisers. It's funded by us.

cybercoma · May 5, 2011

Then after that you may wish to read a few more books or papers on literary criticism, historicism, etc. I have suggestions if you want.

I have the Chomsky book and I've got a pretty basic understanding of semiotics, so i was curious what these papers are that you suggest. I would be interested in reading them.

guyser · May 5, 2011

The CBC can go on in its biased, unethical reporting because unlike other networks, the CBC is not beholden to viewers and advertisers. It's funded by us.

Ezra...where is my Ezra icon...oh here it is :blink:

It aint funded by you betsy. And yes, the CBC needs and relies on advertisers.

But dont worry, that church you go to? Now that is funded by your neighbours. And whew....talk about a bias there , have they pictures of humans riding dinosaurs at yours?

cybercoma · May 5, 2011

betsy, Ezra Levant is a sensationalising ring-wing entertainer. He has no credibility as a legitimate journalist. He's the news-world version of forum trolls.

WWWTT · May 5, 2011

Tsk, tsk, tsk Dave, now you are going to receive a heap of steaming scorn from the Fauxers on the board.

Once they sober up from their election victory parties that is...

Try them around 8am,I think they start drinking at 8.01am

WWWTT

ToadBrother · May 5, 2011

http://ezralevant.com/2010/05/the-cbcs-leftwing-bias.html

The CBC can go on in its biased, unethical reporting because unlike other networks, the CBC is not beholden to viewers and advertisers. It's funded by us.

Translation: They won't let Ezra mouth off on the public airwaves any more, so Ezra continues his almost fetishistic hatred of the CBC.

Ezra is a moron. He's a very smart guy, but a moron nonetheless. He's burned every bridge every built for him, to the point that even most conservatives ignore him. He's an empty mouthpiece.

Betsy, here's some free advice. Instead of wasting time cementing your prejudices by being part of the choir that guys like Levant sing to, why not expand your horizons a little bit by, oh I don't know, reading someone who isn't just a mean-spirited attention-whoring malcontent.

Handsome Rob · May 5, 2011

betsy, Ezra Levant is a sensationalising ring-wing entertainer. He has no credibility as a legitimate journalist. He's the news-world version of forum trolls.

Entirely true, but he does have a point. Where is the report? It has been a long time.

I find it fun to watch the comments get disable/enabled on things like political stories with no harm to people or loss of life. Then the headlines like, Ignatieff Slams Harper on.....tired of people slamming things. Course the other way around it would read, Harper alleges Ignatieff did....

Not going to start on Terry Milewski.

But the biggest turn-off, I work in commercial aviation. An industry reported on more often than most any other, and I would believe that the media has never reported anything significant accurately, ever.

I'd like to see peer review, like Fox checks MSNBC, vice versa. Sun checks CBC, CTV checks global. Check the facts, what is the innuendo of the columns?

The pipe dream that the above is, the Associated Press is probably my favorite source of published news.

Rick · May 5, 2011

Ezra...where is my Ezra icon...oh here it is

It aint funded by you betsy. And yes, the CBC needs and relies on advertisers.

But dont worry, that church you go to? Now that is funded by your neighbours. And whew....talk about a bias there , have they pictures of humans riding dinosaurs at yours?

You know for all of the right wing's bitching about the media being predominantly left leaning, they must not be counting the numerous radio talk shows like Adler's or pretty much the majority of 640 Toronto and 1010 CFRB's lineup which definitely pro-Conservative.

Not to mention that other than the Star which is moderate to left of centre, the Post, G&M and Sun all lean right.

CTV is definitely not left leaning.