Layton found nude in massage parlour!

[CANADIEN]

What baseless assumptions? The facts are clear.

Indeed they are. He went there for a massage, was too naive to realize that it may have been used for other purposes, there was a police raid, and they let him go. THESE are the facts.

Well, Olivia said so, at least. So, he knew the place, if not from prior visits then at least by reputation?

He knew the place. That's a fact. He knew it was bawdy house. That's assumption.

As I've said a multitude of times in this thread, I'm not claiming he was there for sexual purposes.

And then we have this.

A champion of dignity and equality for women wouldn't patronize and financially support a rub-and-tug. It's rank hypocrisy comparable to a "family values" politician cheating on his wife or an anti-gay crusader "tapping his foot" in a bathroom stall.

-k

Your claim is clear that at a minimum he knew this was a bawdy house. People go in those places go there for one think, and it is not a therapeutic massage. Let's drop the charade, shall we?

[capricorn]

I find it hilarious (if not incredibly sad as well) that this thread has reached 52 pages. Compare that to the length of some of the threads around the various REAL scandals and schemes that the CPC foisted upon us.

Incredible to say the least.

Sex, shakey, sex. Doesn't that say it all?

[blueblood]

I won't comment on Harper. But Day believe in that non-scientific proposition that the Earth is a few thousands year old at best and that dinosaurs roamed the Earth with Noah. And there was reason to believe that it would influence his views on what role government should play in regards to science.

That, unlike layton not having the sense to realize that there was possibly something illegal taking place where he got his massage, is relevant in evaluating those who seek to lead this country.

As kimmy was pointing out it doesn't look good for layton hanging out at the massage parlor while at the same time campaigning for womens issues. Did it affect his performance as an mp? No, I'd say he was a good mp and did a good job improving his profile. Stockwell day by and large was a competant mp and cabinet minister. Did his beliefs hinder his job, by his performance I'd say not.

This brings me to my point. If your not wanting to give stockwell day the benefit of the doubt, why the double standard when its layton's turn in the hot seat. I think laytons policies are ridiculous, but he's done a good job as an mp, same as stockwell and his beliefs.

If one were to take this to the extreme, what would be better for a leader, a person who believes the earth is 6000 years old or someone who hangs out at "massage parlours" and what goes on is up to the imagination? Yes I know and have made it clear there is no way to know if layton did anything wrong. However there is no way to know if stockwell day would let his belief of a 6000 year old earth influence policy.

[Guest American Woman]

As kimmy was pointing out it doesn't look good for layton hanging out at the massage parlor while at the same time campaigning for womens issues.

How is getting a massage going against women's issues?

[blueblood]

How is getting a massage going against women's issues?

That's kimmy's point not mine. Read her posts.

[Smallc]

If one were to take this to the extreme, what would be better for a leader, a person who believes the earth is 6000 years old or someone who hangs out at "massage parlours" and what goes on is up to the imagination?

Definitely the latter.

[CANADIEN]

How is getting a massage going against women's issues?

Well. It is not. But getting sexual favours is. And as kimmy won't say, that's why he was there.

Edited May 1, 2011 by CANADIEN

[blueblood]

Definitely the latter.

Me I'd take the former. I don't think what a person believes in should exclude that person from public office (providing its not about causing harm to people)

[cybercoma]

I'm not quite sure why the time is an issue either.

Here's a list of spas in Toronto that are open that late.

http://www.beautysurvival.com/early-late.html#Toronto, on

[cybercoma]

How is getting a massage going against women's issues?

It begs the question that Layton knew Triad's were exploiting young Asian women. It goes against women's issues because Layton knew this was a rub-and-tug and gave them his money anyway.

[Smallc]

Me I'd take the former. I don't think what a person believes in should exclude that person from public office (providing its not about causing harm to people)

And I don't find paying for sex or sexual favours to be offensive. If a woman wants to sell her services, who am I to stop her? I also, most definitely, don't find getting a massage to be offensive. I wish I could get one right now.

[RNG]

I'm not quite sure why the time is an issue either.

Here's a list of spas in Toronto that are open that late.

http://www.beautysurvival.com/early-late.html#Toronto, on

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't see Velet Touch on that list.

[CANADIEN]

Me I'd take the former. I don't think what a person believes in should exclude that person from public office (providing its not about causing harm to people)

Stiffling scientific development and research would be harmful to economic development. When a politician seeking higher office has views that are opposed to science (and I am not talking about belonging to a chruch, I am talking about beliefs about the history and age of this planet that run contrary to science). it is entirely justifiable to inquire as to how this would affect policies promoted by that individuals.

In the United States, for example, and to a lesser extent here, politicians have actively promoted the teaching of pseudo-science (Creationism) alongside and to the detriment of science.

[CANADIEN]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't see Velet Touch on that list.

But I see "I need"

[blueblood]

Stiffling scientific development and research would be harmful to economic development. When a politician seeking higher office has views that are opposed to science (and I am not talking about belonging to a chruch, I am talking about beliefs about the history and age of this planet that run contrary to science). it is entirely justifiable to inquire as to how this would affect policies promoted by that individuals.

In the United States, for example, and to a lesser extent here, politicians have actively promoted the teaching of pseudo-science (Creationism) alongside and to the detriment of science.

You are right except there's one thing missing.

You and I don't know what goes on in stockwell's head and if he would enact those policies. You can't provide evidence that stockwell would let his beliefs influence his job performance anymore than mr canada can prove that layton was in the massage parlour getting sexual favours.

What is interesting is that stockwell has done a good job in his portfolio's and from what I've heard he's a bit of a dork.

[CANADIEN]

You are right except there's one thing missing.

You and I don't know what goes on in stockwell's head and if he would enact those policies. You can't provide evidence that stockwell would let his beliefs influence his job performance anymore than mr canada can prove that layton was in the massage parlour getting sexual favours.

What is interesting is that stockwell has done a good job in his portfolio's and from what I've heard he's a bit of a dork.

Questioning whether or not his beliefs would have interfered with his responsibilities in a science related portfolio is legitimate.

He was a fairly competent minister. None of his ministires has anything to do with science.

[Battletoads]

As an NDP supported I'd like to thank all the Cons here for focusing all their effort on this laughable smear campaign that even some staunch conservatives think is pathetic.

[jbg]

I find it hilarious (if not incredibly sad as well) that this thread has reached 52 pages.

That was the result of the merger of about 5 threads, if I'm not mistaken.

[blueblood]

Questioning whether or not his beliefs would have interfered with his responsibilities in a science related portfolio is legitimate.

He was a fairly competent minister. None of his ministires has anything to do with science.

So is it alright for other right leaning posters to ask questions regarding why jack layton was there in the first place or what went on there?

I mean he was there and there were bad rumors of that place, should there be questions asked?

[Hydraboss]

Questioning whether or not his beliefs would have interfered with his responsibilities in a science related portfolio is legitimate.

He was a fairly competent minister. None of his ministires has anything to do with science.

Would it then be just as legitimate to question if there would be sway to John Layton's parlimentary decisions (should he become PM) concerning human smuggling, prostitution, and organized crime? Would that be acceptable based on your assertions? Is this a goose and gander stance?

[Guest Derek L]

Would it then be just as legitimate to question if there would be sway to John Layton's parlimentary decisions (should he become PM) concerning human smuggling, prostitution, and organized crime? Would that be acceptable based on your assertions? Is this a goose and gander stance?

I’ll echo that and ask what about his statements with regards to the Bank of Canada & interest rates? Or regulating the price of fuel? (How well did that work for PEI?) Or the chose of some of his candidates, namely in Quebec? Are these not all fair questions to ask of Mr. Layton and the NDP?

[Bryan]

How is getting a massage going against women's issues?

In a whore house owned by a criminal organization trafficking in under age asian sex slaves?

[blueblood]

It sure is quiet in here...

[CANADIEN]

It begs the question that Layton knew Triad's were exploiting young Asian women. It goes against women's issues because Layton knew this was a rub-and-tug and gave them his money anyway.

And you know he knew because? Anything in the FACTS that are KNOWN lend to that conclusion? So far, I see nothing but innuendos and assumptions.

[kimmy]

And I don't find paying for sex or sexual favours to be offensive. If a woman wants to sell her services, who am I to stop her? I also, most definitely, don't find getting a massage to be offensive. I wish I could get one right now.

I agree. I don't see an issue with a woman selling sexual services if she wants to. And wants is the key word here.

If an adult woman (or man, for that matter) is selling sexual services because they choose to, and they can accept or reject clients at their discretion, and can leave that profession at their own volition, I don't see why not.

If she (or he) is selling their services because they're afraid for their safety, or because they need to do so to obtain drugs they're addicted to, or because they're afraid they or their family will get deported if they don't cooperate, or if they're otherwise being coerced into it, then it's not okay. That these people are often underage, often in the country illegally, often isolated by language or otherwise disconnected from potential sources of assistance, only makes them more vulnerable. As we all know, criminals and crime organizations (Triad, Hell's Angels, other gangs...) exploit women like this.

Somebody who's patronizing an establishment where exploitation like that is occurring is supporting it, whether they ordered the "happy ending" or just a shiatsu. Somebody who'd knowingly support an operation like that is a bad person. Jack says he didn't know, so he might not be a bad person.

It begs the question that Layton knew Triad's were exploiting young Asian women. It goes against women's issues because Layton knew this was a rub-and-tug and gave them his money anyway.

That's my position exactly.

I don't have a problem with someone paying for sexual services. I do have a problem with someone supporting an operation that exploits vulnerable women.

And to me, all the conjecture about what services he did or didn't pay for completely misses the mark. It doesn't matter. What matters is that he was (knowingly or unknowingly) at that kind of a place.

Jack says he didn't know it was such a place or he wouldn't have been there. If you believe him, that's certainly your right. I'm skeptical of his claim. We'll just leave it at that.

-k