jbg Posted April 27, 2011 Author Report Posted April 27, 2011 Wow... Ok, well... I don't know what to say... You made a good point. Thank you. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
msj Posted April 27, 2011 Report Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) This is true. No one knows what the POTUS knows, and no one knows what the responsibility of being the POTUS feel like except the person actually in that position. Yep, you sound more and more like Britney Spears every day. Edited April 27, 2011 by msj Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
BubberMiley Posted April 27, 2011 Report Posted April 27, 2011 Are you calling me a liar? I am! Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Black Dog Posted April 27, 2011 Report Posted April 27, 2011 I'm re-titling the thread "Obama is Neutral to His Country, Ashamed of Western Heritage". That better reflects my views. Or your cowardice. Quote
jbg Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Posted April 28, 2011 Or your cowardice. I see nothing cowardly about making an adjustment in response to a good point. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BC_chick Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 He's saying that one attribute which makese America great is the people's connectedness with fellow countrymen whereby a collective sense of responsibility ensures the health and safety of of their compatriots. Given that healthcare is predominantly a "Western" system of life (which Obama is praising) I don't see how you're getting that he's ashamed of his western heritage or that he's neutral to his country. I'm reading it the exact opposite. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Sir Bandelot Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 He's saying that one attribute which makese America great is the people's connectedness with fellow countrymen whereby a collective sense of responsibility ensures the health and safety of of their compatriots. Given that healthcare is predominantly a "Western" system of life (which Obama is praising) I don't see how you're getting that he's ashamed of his western heritage or that he's neutral to his country. I'm reading it the exact opposite. I agree jbg's logic is completely inverted. As it so often is, it seems... Quote
jbg Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Posted April 28, 2011 I agree jbg's logic is completely inverted. As it so often is, it seems... You understand my point damn well. Which is that having an endless menu of social services, provided in a mediocre manner, is not what makes America great. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Sir Bandelot Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 You understand my point damn well. Which is that having an endless menu of social services, provided in a mediocre manner, is not what makes America great. Provide them in an excellent manner then. Quote
BubberMiley Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Provide them in an excellent manner then. But for ultra-right-wing republicans, they can never be provided well enough. That's their argument for abolishing them (while they pretend they and their dead father had sweet love for McGovern). Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jefferiah Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Or your cowardice. He took criticism for hyperbole, decided the poster had a point, and did what the "bigger person" does. Not many posters on either side of the spectrum here show this kind of maturity. Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
jbg Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Posted April 29, 2011 He took criticism for hyperbole, decided the poster had a point, and did what the "bigger person" does. Not many posters on either side of the spectrum here show this kind of maturity. Thanks. The poster I responded to, Michael Hardener, is one of the more constructive left-wing posters. Most are not. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bonam Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 we do not acknowledge your sham political system Why do random people keep signing up for one or two posts just to post this? Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Why do random people keep signing up for one or two posts just to post this? These are being sent by one of the virus programs. Quote
GostHacked Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Why do random people keep signing up for one or two posts just to post this? It's not a random person. It's one or two people doing this every now and then. Quote
Black Dog Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 He took criticism for hyperbole, decided the poster had a point, and did what the "bigger person" does. Not many posters on either side of the spectrum here show this kind of maturity. By turning the thread title into something equally absurd and hyperbolic? Sorry, that's not progress. Quote
KeyStone Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Almost two (2) years ago, about three (3) months after his inauguration, I expressed serious doubts that President Obama loves his country (link to earlier thread). Unfortunately, events have borne me out. He does not seem to believe that his country is much greater than the tinpot despotisms that infest the world. In fact, he seems to be doing everything in his power to hobble his own country. No don't get me wrong; I won't get sidetracked on "birther" arguments. I fully accept that he was born here and is constitutionally qualified to sit as President. What I have, over the last few years, had my doubts about is whether he is primarily an advocate for the United States, as his oath of office implicitly requires, or if his sees himself as a "world leader". Unfortunately, I think the latter. I think the U.S.'s greatness is measured by the level of opportunity it affords to those that have little but brains. I think it is a great country based upon the fact that whenever there's a natural disaster anywhere, the U.S. is there. In a recent article, Doug Patton writes (link to article, excerpts below): Such a moment of startling honesty came recently when Obama delivered what the mainstream media laughingly described as a "response" to Rep. Paul Ryan's common sense budget. What the speech really amounted to, of course, was simply a tired partisan kick-off of his 2012 re-election campaign. In it, Obama again stated his contempt for the nation that has given him so much. Consider this excerpt: "Part of this American belief that we're all connected also expresses itself in a conviction that each one of us deserves some basic measure of security and dignity. We recognize that no matter how responsibly we live our lives, hard times or bad luck, a crippling illness or a layoff may strike any one of us. 'There but for the grace of God go I,' we say to ourselves. And so we contribute to programs like Medicare and Social Security, which guarantee us health care and a measure of basic income after a lifetime of hard work; unemployment insurance, which protects us against unexpected job loss; and Medicaid, which provides care for millions of seniors in nursing homes, poor children, those with disabilities. We're a better country because of these commitments. I'll go further. We would not be a great country without those commitments." Really, Mr. Obama? When Thomas Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence and risked his life signing it along with the other Founders, were we not a great country? When George Washington led his troops in the freezing cold at Valley Forge, were we not a great country? When James Madison became the father of the U.S. Constitution, were we not a great country? When Abraham Lincoln agonized over the salvation of the Union and the abolition of slavery, were we not a great country? For the first 189 years of our nation's existence we were not a great country? Is that what you are saying Mr. Obama? Until Franklin Roosevelt pushed through the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security in 1935 and Lyndon Johnson compounded the shell game with Medicare in 1965, we were — what? A mediocre country? An average country? Or perhaps, as your wife expressed during the campaign, we were "a downright mean country." Is that what you really believe about the United States of America? Obviously, it is. There is in short nothing about the greatness of our country that is keyed into redistribution programs. Our country is a great country because of the opportunities afforded to those who arrive legally. Those opportunities are diminished, not enhanced, by taking from those that produce and giving to those that don't produce. Now there are grounds for having a safety net based upon compassion. In no way, though, is our country's greatness to be measured by the safety net. So, you think that the US needs yet another politician to proclaim that America is the greatest, most free, most succesful, most democratic country in the world, without any need to substantiate those claims. For the record George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison all owned a decent number of slaves in your greatest country in the world. You seem to be making the argument that America is the greatest country in the word because it's American. That sort of navel-gazing approach to international relations, generally means that America refuses to change and adopt best practices. If we did it 100 years ago, that makes it American. And if it's American, then that makes it the best. America is a good country for many reasons, but is it the best country? Perhaps for some things - baseball, and George Lucas come to mind. But America has shortcomings. I've been to Detroit, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and I've seen all the people begging on the street. I've read all the accounts of people dying because they couldn't afford healtcare or had a pre-existing condition. Is that something you want to change, or something you want to embrace because it's the American way? Your electoral system (much the same as Canada's FPTP) is archaic. There is something wrong when a third party with no chance of winning, determines the outcome of the election.(Perot, Nader) But Americans believe that because it's American, it's the best. Patriotism is great for getting young people to throw away their lives in wars, but not always so good at facilitating badly needed change. One can not improve, until one recognizes one's shortcomings. Many Americans already believe that the US is the greatest nation on Earth. Obama is trying to make their belief a reality. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) ....You seem to be making the argument that America is the greatest country in the word because it's American. That sort of navel-gazing approach to international relations, generally means that America refuses to change and adopt best practices. If we did it 100 years ago, that makes it American. And if it's American, then that makes it the best. Since there can be no absolute greatest country in the world or agreement on objective critera, subjective criteria will have to suffice. America is the greatest country in the world, for Americans, and those many millions wishing to be Americans. No other country has received this practical choice and vote based on emigration over the past 200 years. Not Canada, not China, not India, not Sweden, not Norway, not Australia, not any other nation. Edited April 29, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Posted April 29, 2011 Why do random people keep signing up for one or two posts just to post this? These are being sent by one of the virus programs. Because his/her/its other post is an apocolyptic, end-of-the-world rant that's always the same and he/she/it is always banned and posts deleted. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
KeyStone Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) Since there can be no absolute greatest country in the world or agreement on objective critera, subjective criteria will have to suffice. America is the greatest country in the world, for Americans, and those many millions wishing to be Americans. No other country has received this practical choice and vote based on emigration over the past 200 years. Not Canada, not China, not India, not Sweden, not Norway, not Australia, not any other nation. So, it would seem that you believe the greatest country in the world can be determined by the number of immigration applications? Well, there are a few problems with that theory. Imagine this scenario: I post two jobs, one has 500 positions to fill at the post office for $25/hour and one is for chief economist at RBC. The post office jobs receive 12,000 applications, and the economist job receives 14 applications. Can we therefore deduce that the postal worker jobs are better? Obviously not. People apply to a country based on many criteria: - The likelihood of getting accepted - The requirements of being accepted - The application process (length, effort, money) - 3rd party organizations that facilitate the application process If America is letting in 5 million immigrants a year, and Denmark is letting in 5 thousand - then it stands to reason that more people will apply to enter the US. Also, if you are looking at 200 years, you have to recognize that the US started off relatively empty, so it needed people to fill it, as opposed to Europe etc. Furthermore, applying to enter a country arguably makes that country the best country to live in, which is not the same thing as the best country. Nazi Germany might have been quite a good country to live in ( if you were Aryan), while they were winning their wars. That does not make them the best country. But if the only thing that matters is the way Americans are treated in America, and not your country's external effect on other citizens, then perhaps. Edited April 29, 2011 by KeyStone Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) So, it would seem that you believe the greatest country in the world can be determined by the number of immigration applications? No, as stated, I believe that to be one of many possible and demonstrably measurable criteria. Well, there are a few problems with that theory. Imagine this scenario: I post two jobs, one has 500 positions to fill at the post office for $25/hour and one is for chief economist at RBC. The post office jobs receive 12,000 applications, and the economist job receives 14 applications. Can we therefore deduce that the postal worker jobs are better? Obviously not. Yes we can, based on response the postal worker job is perceived as being better. People apply to a country based on many criteria: - The likelihood of getting accepted - The requirements of being accepted - The application process (length, effort, money) - 3rd party organizations that facilitate the application process ...and many more criteria that in total represent better opportunity compared to another. If America is letting in 5 million immigrants a year, and Denmark is letting in 5 thousand - then it stands to reason that more people will apply to enter the US. Hence America is again the greater possible opportunity, the very essence of what makes America great....not "free" healthcare. Also, if you are looking at 200 years, you have to recognize that the US started off relatively empty, so it needed people to fill it, as opposed to Europe etc. Canada is still pretty empty....bad example. Furthermore, applying to enter a country arguably makes that country the best country to live in, which is not the same thing as the best country. Nazi Germany might have been quite a good country to live in ( if you were Aryan), while they were winning their wars. That does not make them the best country. But if the only thing that matters is the way Americans are treated in America, and not your country's external effect on other citizens, then perhaps. America is the best country in the world...for Americans. There is no single best country in the world, but the fact that you attempt to reduce an American's perception of his/her own country as the best reflects an altogether different agenda. Edited April 29, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 So, it would seem that you believe the greatest country in the world can be determined by the number of immigration applications? According to this Gallup poll, most participants who would emigrate if they could chose the U.S. as their desired destination.link .... Gallup finds about 16% of the world's adults would like to move to another country permanently if they had the chance. ... The United States is the top desired destination country .... Nearly one-quarter (24%) of these respondents ... name the United States as their desired future residence. Quote
BubberMiley Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Greatest PR for sure then. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
bloodyminded Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 This is really funny. Do you really think Obama wanted to say that America wasn't great in 1776 because they didn't have Medicare ? This amount of time spent on over analysis and over discussion could be spent on finding programs to cut, you know... Awesome. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
jbg Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Posted May 12, 2013 This is really funny. Do you really think Obama wanted to say that America wasn't great in 1776 because they didn't have Medicare ? Now the President has compounded his overall lack of respect for what makes America great by drowning us in Obamacare. And worse, the POTUS did not care that he did nothing about a slaughter of our diplomats in Benghazi, as long as it didn't hurt his election efforts. About as good as Nixon's morality in having the CIA kill the FBI so he could get re-elected in 1972 without a sweat. Right, Mr. President? And I am no reactionary Republican. I am a liberal, Jewish Democrat. And Obama is a disgrace. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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