Tories turning attacks toward Layton, NDP

[Topaz]

Why is Harper always harping about the opposition coalition with the Bloc when he's already planned one with them twice. Once in 2004 and a plan in 1990's to try to break the majority government of the liberals. Harper uses the coalition at times for himself and always against the opposition parties. http://www.canada.com/news/decision-canada/Right+wing+roadmap+Harper+wrote+effective+coalition+plan+1996+article/4660874/story.html

[betsy]

Why is Harper always harping about the opposition coalition with the Bloc when he's already planned one with them twice. Once in 2004 and a plan in 1990's to try to break the majority government of the liberals. Harper uses the coalition at times for himself and always against the opposition parties. http://www.canada.com/news/decision-canada/Right+wing+roadmap+Harper+wrote+effective+coalition+plan+1996+article/4660874/story.html

Well in 2004 Harper said he was not talking about a coalition. Anyway, why didn't Layton and Diuceppe bring that accusation up until now?

Furthermore, it's "he said, they said" scenario. If I'm not mistaken, Layton and Diuceppe said they all signed.

Where is the copy of the paper that they all signed? All Layton or Diuceppe have to do is bring a copy out and let the media scrutinize it to their hearts' content!

You'd think these two will trip over each other in their haste to provide the proof!

Edited April 23, 2011 by betsy

[Rovik]

Except that it is Jack who is lying. The CPC ad is iron clad fact.

Iron clad fact? I don't think so. I bet you and other hardcore Conservative supporters would believe the moon was made of green cheese if Steve Harper said it was.

Within this article from Canada.com, are the reasons why this ad is based on misinformation and untruths.

NDP surge makes Layton new target of attack

From within this article:

With his leader busy taking part in a Good Friday procession in Toronto, Ottawa Centre incumbent Paul Dewar stepped into the spotlight to condemn a new Tory attack ad that suggests Layton had "planned a coalition with the Bloc Quebecois" even before the votes were counted in the 2008 election, that he was "willing to make Gilles Duceppe the driving force" behind it and that he kept his plans hidden "until after the election."

He argues, and appears to be correct in saying that the first reference attributed to a book by Brian Topp, the party's former campaign director, is baseless, that the second reference taken from a newspaper article actually suggests the Bloc leader "cast himself" as the so-called "driving force" behind the failed coalition and finally, that Layton has long been up front about his willingness to work with other parties to "get results for Canadian families."

The Conservatives were quick to complain about the misquote of Harper in the Liberal's healthcare attack ad but they seem loose and free to misinform and manipulate the facts within their own ads. This is the heights of hypocrisy and I hope that Canadians are smart enough to see this and punish the Conservatives for this.

Let's face it, even though many Conservatives may publicly say that they are happy about the NDP surge because it may possibly "split the left vote", they are privately concerned that the NDP would also defeat the Conservatives in ridings across the country preventing them from winning a majority.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Rovik

[cybercoma]

the NDP will be taking Con Ridings Albert

Really?

[punked]

Really?

I'm hearing we got a shot at Edmonton East if our Alberta Numbers go up it could be a pretty good one.

Edited April 23, 2011 by punked

[cybercoma]

I like your fire, punk.

[punked]

I like your fire, punk.

Go big or go home!

[RNG]

I like your fire, punk.

Get a room!

[wyly]

The Tories attacks ads don't work anymore because the voters are on to them, most of their ads are half truths or taken out of context. IF either the NDP or the Libs formed the government , I think it would be bitter-sweet. Why? We don't know how deep the deficit REALLY is and this could stop a lot of what these two parties are promising. I would like for the seating government to open the books and let the country really see how good or bad things are. I hate to see the NDP first time in there only to fall because of what the Tory party left behind.

that what is really behind the contempt of parliament issue that brought down the government, the conservatives refusal to supply the figures for the budget, how much will the new prisons cost-secret, how much do the 9 billion/16 billion/29 billion jets really cost-another secret...to pass a budget the opposition needs to know the real costs....

if the Ndp managed to govern it would be important for them to open all the books and show the public the truth about our finances...

[RNG]

that what is really behind the contempt of parliament issue that brought down the government, the conservatives refusal to supply the figures for the budget, how much will the new prisons cost-secret, how much do the 9 billion/16 billion/29 billion jets really cost-another secret...to pass a budget the opposition needs to know the real costs....

if the Ndp managed to govern it would be important for them to open all the books and show the public the truth about our finances...

But when are the Harper Brown Shirts going to start taking over the streets with their guns ablazing?

[wyly]

Well in 2004 Harper said he was not talking about a coalition. Anyway, why didn't Layton and Diuceppe bring that accusation up until now?

Furthermore, it's "he said, they said" scenario. If I'm not mistaken, Layton and Diuceppe said they all signed.

Where is the copy of the paper that they all signed? All Layton or Diuceppe have to do is bring a copy out and let the media scrutinize it to their hearts' content!

You'd think these two will trip over each other in their haste to provide the proof!

here you go betsy...I've edited the layton and duceppe signatures but they were there...

Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson,

C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.

Governor General

Rideau Hall

1 Sussex Drive

Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A1

Excellency,

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government's program.

We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice

has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority.

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Hon. Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P.

Leader of the Opposition

Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada

if not an election what other options was Harper referring too?...I'm not aware of any other option other than offering the opposition the opportunity to govern which has happened once before in Canada, so it is constitutionally correct despite harpers new claims to the contrary...harper was going to attempt to govern with support of the bloc as the ndp walked out on the deal... Edited April 23, 2011 by wyly

[cybercoma]

The Conservative ad talking about Harper cutting taxes infuriates me. Firstly, the GST cuts have done serious damage to our financial position and didn't offer very many Canadians any sort of real savings (especially considering the HST shifts this year). But that's not what really pisses me off. Watch the video on youtube if you can find. The narrator talks about Ignatieff for a bit, then she says, "And the NDP (pause)." After that pause, she audibly scoffs at the proposition.

Really? Is this real Canadian leadership? Scoffing at the opposition? Come on.

[RNG]

The Conservative ad talking about Harper cutting taxes infuriates me. Firstly, the GST cuts have done serious damage to our financial position and didn't offer very many Canadians any sort of real savings (especially considering the HST shifts this year). But that's not what really pisses me off. Watch the video on youtube if you can find. The narrator talks about Ignatieff for a bit, then she says, "And the NDP (pause)." After that pause, she audibly scoffs at the proposition.

Really? Is this real Canadian leadership? Scoffing at the opposition? Come on.

Iggy and Layton deserve a scoff.

[cybercoma]

Iggy and Layton deserve a scoff.

It's one thing to be talking to your buddies and scoff about it. It's quite another thing to be the governing party and do it. That's some Liberalesque arrogance there.

[ninjandrew]

I'm hearing we got a shot at Edmonton East if our Alberta Numbers go up it could be a pretty good one.

Weve got some orange signs here on the East side. WEM area where my gf lives, nothing but blue...

[Guest Derek L]

that what is really behind the contempt of parliament issue that brought down the government, the conservatives refusal to supply the figures for the budget, how much will the new prisons cost-secret, how much do the 9 billion/16 billion/29 billion jets really cost-another secret...to pass a budget the opposition needs to know the real costs....

if the Ndp managed to govern it would be important for them to open all the books and show the public the truth about our finances...

Have the NDP explained yet how they will pay for their platform?

WRT to the costing of the F-35, with amortization over the 30 year expected life span, if the 29 billion figure is used, this is under a billion dollars a year. Where will it come from? DND budget savings post Afghanistian.

[Smallc]

WRT to the costing of the F-35, with amortization over the 30 year expected life span, if the 29 billion figure is used, this is under a billion dollars a year. Where will it come from? DND budget savings post Afghanistian.

Afghanistan does not come out of the main DND budget. That money will probably simply disappear.

[wyly]

Have the NDP explained yet how they will pay for their platform?

WRT to the costing of the F-35, with amortization over the 30 year expected life span, if the 29 billion figure is used, this is under a billion dollars a year. Where will it come from? DND budget savings post Afghanistian.

oh so the conservatives have shown you the contract and not the opposition?

[Evening Star]

Have the NDP explained yet how they will pay for their platform?

It comes with a separate costing document, available on the website: http://www.ndp.ca/platform

[RNG]

It's one thing to be talking to your buddies and scoff about it. It's quite another thing to be the governing party and do it. That's some Liberalesque arrogance there.

Liberalesque arrogance? I'm so right wing I wouldn't even take a free beer from a liberal. I'm an apologetic Con.

[Guest Derek L]

Afghanistan does not come out of the main DND budget. That money will probably simply disappear.

Depends what accounting method one does:

http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/news-nouvelles/2010/2010_07_09.aspx?lang=eng

The incremental cost of the mission in Afghanistan to the Government of Canada from 2001 to 2011 is currently estimated to be approximately $11.3 billion. This includes estimates for mission close-out costs, but excludes post-2011 costs for veterans’ disability and health care. These incremental costs are calculated at approximately $9B for National Defence (DND) and approximately $2.3B for other departments – including $1.64B for the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), $514M for the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT) and $220 M for Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC). Costs for Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) are included in DFAIT calculations.

And further down the page:

WHAT ARE INCREMENTAL COSTS?

Incremental costs are those for personnel and equipment that would not have been incurred had there been no Afghanistan mission. Specifically, incremental costs include only the additional costs to deploy troops, civilians and equipment and provide ongoing maintenance and support during the operation. The estimates presented here are on an accrual basis, consistent with the Government’s accounting policies.

More than 80 percent of the costs of the Afghanistan mission are DND-related. In order to provide a comprehensive accounting of the cost of a particular mission and its impact on equipment, DND employs a system very similar to that of most of its allies. The costs associated with the increased maintenance, repair and spare parts consumption due to higher usage in theatre are included in the incremental costs associated with the mission. In addition, the acquisition of mission-specific equipment such as the Chinook D helicopters are also included in incremental cost figures.

Granted, I'm not a accountant, but using the figures provided by DND on mission cost, and the extreme figures provided by the media/oppostion parties......If the government is budgeting ~ 1 billion a year for the dirt box, and when the current mission ends, shouldn't that be ~ 1 billion dollars avaliable to go towards the claimed costing of the F-35? Does the oppostion's 29 billion figure also factor in the decrease in spending on maintence on the CF-18 fleet? What about a decrease in costing from going from a twin engine fighter to a single engine?

[Smallc]

The mission expenses are a separate like item in the budget and they do not affect the base finding of DND.

[Guest Derek L]

oh so the conservatives have shown you the contract and not the opposition?

No, I'm using the extreme numbers provided by the oppostion, then plugging them into grade 4 long divison. Also, no contract has yet been signed.

[Guest Derek L]

The mission expenses are a separate like item in the budget and they do not affect the base finding of DND.

I understand that. I'm sure if we dug deep enough, we could figure out what DND spends on toilet paper and boot polish, in Kabual or Kingston.

My point, is that if the government of Canada, at this time, has budgeted that money for the dirt box, then are no longer required to fund said mission, they can use those funds for the JSF.

[Smallc]

I understand that. I'm sure if we dug deep enough, we could figure out what DND spends on toilet paper and boot polish, in Kabual or Kingston.

No, you obviously don't understand. DND gets funding the range of $20B per year. The mission in Afghanistan gets an addition $2B that is not part of DNDs budget. That money will not be there for DND when the mission ends.