Questioning Immigration Policy

[WWWTT]

I do actually think it makes some sense to prioritize young skilled immigrants over elderly relatives though...

I don't think anyone disagrees with you ES.

But waiting times of up to eight yrs!

And keep in mind that these realitives are not allowed temporary visiting visas aswell.

Unless you are somehow involved in this process or have actuall facts in front of you then scope of this problem is lost!

Unless you want to discourage immigration then this would in fact become an excellent tactict!

And keep in mind that you have to pay a handsome fee to the government to sponsor someone.And whenever fees are paid for services then the service must be rendered.If anyone attempted this(failure to render services for fees paid) in the private sector they would get their ass sued,why not holding the government accountable to the same standard?

WWWTT

[Shady]

But waiting times of up to eight yrs!

It's a priviledge to come here, not a right.

[betsy]

Boy, they're talking EXODUS!

Liberals/NDP supporters, will you just stop and do a reality check here.

As it is, we're already deeply concerned about the great numbers of citizens who'll become seniors in a few years, all collecting pensions, needing healthcare/homecare/nursing care. I thought one of the reasons why we're trying to get young immigrants over here is to make up for the diminishing numbers of productive young citizens who'll shoulder the expenses of looking after all these older folks?

I know of a minority who came to Canada with her husband and three children. The husband sponsored his aged mother and she came to Canada. She did not work outside the house. Her role was to cook for this family and do their housekeeping. Their housing was subsidized. Not long after, this mother started collecting pension and sponsored her other adult son to come to Canada. I don't know what happened after that since we lost contact. But it's like playing tag.

It's scary enough shouldering this burgeoning price tag, what more with all the other huge spendings these two parties are going to make. You can pretend that everything is costed out and hang on their promise that they won't be raising any taxes. But whom are you kidding? Somebody will end up paying for this and you bet it won't be coming out of the pockets of Ignatieff and Layton.

Just do the math!

I know most of you hate Harper and the Conservatives! Some even go to the extent of declaring, "Anyone but Harper!" You have to set aside partisanship and really take a closer look.

Don't bite your nose just to spite your face.

Edited April 22, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

Hey buddy watch your mouth

These are peoples family members you are talking about.

They take care of younger family members and contribute to the families well being with experience,love and compassion.

Do not belittle an elders contribution to a family and society!

WWWTT

It's not belittling their contribution to their own family. It's being realistic. Otherwise, we're all going to sink...and these immigrants who uprooted themselves from their homeland expecting the dreams every aspiring immigrant only dream about will only end up sinking down with us.

The leaking ship can only take so much to make it to shore.

Edited April 22, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

Your doing a fantastic job at hanging yourself so please by all means take more rope

WWWTT

How is he hanging himself? I'd like you to please explain what you mean....because I fail to see it myself.

[betsy]

"Money sucking leeches" really you have a site to back this up?

Actually do you have a site to back up any of your opinions on this subject?

I wouldn't usually ask but for some reason I just can't seem to find anything to back up your argument.I wonder why?

WWWTT

As you get older, you require more healthcare. And that's if you're lucky to be healthy enough not to require home care...or nursing care. That's a fact!

[WWWTT]

It's not belittling their contribution to the family. It's being realistic. Otherwise, we're all going to sink...and these immigrants who uprooted themselves from their homeland expecting the dreams every aspiring immigrant only dream about will only end up sinking down with us.

The leaking ship can only take so much to make it to shore.

Wow lots of opinion and no facts yet,no site no numbers nothing zippo zero zilch nada goose egg.

Just opinion after opinion after opinion.

Wheres the numbers?

Obvious none of my opponents here has ever successfuly won a lawsuit.

Where is the evidence?Numbers people I want Numbers!

In the end your opinion couldn't buy a freakin loaf of bread and a pot to piss in!

WWWTT

[Wild Bill]

Cmon Scotty Hydaboss get some more of the righties in here.Me vs the two of you isn't even worth my time.

Get at least two more righties in here and then we will continue

Good luck

WWWTT

Well, I'm not all THAT right but I'll add a flame!

It doesn't matter how you feel about the issue. Math is math. All these immigrant grandparents cost money. Love doesn't pay for hospital care. Dollars do.

Either the budget will handle all these extra non-financially contributing people or it won't. If it can't, then it goes broke.

You can argue about the morality of the issue all you want, WWWTT. However, you can't argue with what it costs!

Hope you like more taxes!

[WWWTT]

Well, I'm not all THAT right but I'll add a flame!

It doesn't matter how you feel about the issue. Math is math. All these immigrant grandparents cost money. Love doesn't pay for hospital care. Dollars do.

Either the budget will handle all these extra non-financially contributing people or it won't. If it can't, then it goes broke.

You can argue about the morality of the issue all you want, WWWTT. However, you can't argue with what it costs!

Hope you like more taxes!

So we meet again,my arch nemises "Wild Bill"

So where are all your facts?

You have numbers with you?

How many of these so called "liabilities" here now "leeching" off of our system.

Oh and where are all these "leeches" coming from Wild.

Oh don't tell me the "Third World" right?

This is an argument that is created by the right.Consists of opinion and generalizations.

No facts no specifics no numbers names addresses nothing,freakin nothing.And somehow at the end of it all you say that we are all getting old and will need healthcare.

Cmon Wild I expected more from you man.

You dissapoint me

WWWTT

[betsy]

no one will ever credit you with being able to see the bigger picture which is common to supporters of conservative xenophobia...

Why are you raising the xenophobe card?

"don't even speak English or French"...so what you're saying is it would be acceptable if they're english or american, aussie?...what does it matter if you could speak with them you have no intentions of ever doing so...I've a pair non-english speaking grand parents neighbours I've never spoken to them I've no interest in doing so so what does it matter if they speak english..but I don't think your problem with them isn't that don't speak english it's that they aren't like you...

How do you expect them to find employment if they cannot speak the language of this country?

your right wing fantasy world is centered on unlimited growth (which isn't possible)... to meet sustained unlimited growth requires a constantly growing population canada has a ZPG birth rate the so only way to meet this growth is through immigration...

yep. That's the point everyone's trying to point out to you! That's why we should welcome young immigrants who are skilled and who can easily get employment! Otherwise, they'll just be like our aging population....in need of assistance!

few immigrants from your "acceptable" sources have any interest or need to come here which leaves us to recruit from 3rd world countries,

I don't know what's wrong with people from China, India, Philippines etc.., most of whom can speak English, a lot of whom had found their niche in our society. Some in science, high-tech, nannies, nursing, etc..,

countries with very poor if any social system to care for their parents...

Guess what, most of these immigrants send money to their parents. That's how it works in their culture. A lot of immigrants also want to live out their old age in their native homeland...and you know why? There's a whole lot of extended families back home who can provide support and care to an elderly.

Of course you know too that the dollars being sent back to the native homeland help the economy of that poor country!

maybe abandoning parents is part of your right wing culture but for most of us it is not,if they couldn't bring their parents they wouldn't come

A lot of them still came here! To most of them, it's a matter of necessity. Being able to send money home is far more practical for them. Don't kid yourself. They like that their dollars are multiplied several times in their native homeland. Their pension money when they get old can make them live like rich people back home.

Actually that could be the answer to our shortage of retirement homes/home care. Any Canadian citizen who wants to retire or live out their old age in those countries should be encouraged. Our healthcare should cover their healthcare bills since they're much more cheaper compared to here.

...bringing in a adult couple saves canadian taxpayer educating two people as well as supplying 2-3 children that canadians are not producing..

I don't think anyone here is arguing about that. I have no problem with that, as long as these couples are skilled, can speak one of the two official languages of this country so they can easily find employment!

the net gain of two educated productive adults and their children outweighs the cost of a few babysitting grandparents...

Uh-uh. First, you're not sure what will become of the children. We're already taking a chance bringing in the two children, hoping they can grow up being productive citizens of this country. If they don't, we're obligated to care for them.

Second, who knows what kind of healthcare the grandparent will require, and for how long? Besides, I'd rather the children go to a regular daycare or babysitter.....it will help generate more jobs/source of income.

You want to have it both ways at the expense of the taxpayers!

I don't think that's fair.

Edited April 22, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

So we meet again,my arch nemises "Wild Bill"

So where are all your facts?

You have numbers with you?

How many of these so called "liabilities" here now "leeching" off of our system.

Oh and where are all these "leeches" coming from Wild.

Oh don't tell me the "Third World" right?

This is an argument that is created by the right.Consists of opinion and generalizations.

No facts no specifics no numbers names addresses nothing,freakin nothing.And somehow at the end of it all you say that we are all getting old and will need healthcare.

Cmon Wild I expected more from you man.

You dissapoint me

WWWTT

Er....I must've missed them....did you give any cite to support your statements?

[betsy]

They take care of younger family members and contribute to the families well being with experience,love and compassion.

WWWTT

Cite.

[betsy]

And keep in mind that these realitives are not allowed temporary visiting visas aswell.

WWWTT

Eh? Heck, what country are you talking about???

Application for a temporary resident visa to visit Canada

This application is for people who need a temporary resident visa (TRV) to visit Canada for a temporary purpose such as tourism, visiting family or friends, or business trips.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/visa.asp

Edited April 22, 2011 by betsy

[Mr.Canada]

If older people want to come to Canada I have no problem with it as long as they're going to get private insurance or have their family pay for the services they use. It just isn't fair to give old immigrants health care and pensions when they themselves haven't been paying into the system and are well passed the age of being useful to our economy.

We all need to get private insurance when we travel to the US or travel abroad. Why should the same rules not apply in these cases?

[Scotty]

no one will ever credit you with being able to see the bigger picture

On the contrary. It's the bigger picture I'm looking at, and the long term picture of growing crowding and pollution in our cities, growing congestion on roadways, disappearing farmland and forests.

"don't even speak English or French"...so what you're saying is it would be acceptable if they're english or american, aussie?.

.

You said they contributed to our society. I pointed out that most of these older immigrants aren't a part of our society and can't speak our language.

.but I don't think your problem with them isn't that don't speak english it's that they aren't like you...

Broadly speaking, that's not incorrect. I think our western, secular culture is the most advanced in the world, and I see no help to it in importing millions of people from more backward societies and cultures, many of which are, by our standards, religious fanatics with outmoded values often inimical to our own. Therefore I would indeed be happier to be bringing in people from similar cultures with similar value systems.

.few immigrants from your "acceptable" sources have any interest or need to come here

Define few. With the economic situation being the way it is in many parts of Europe I bet we could satisfy most of our immigration requirements there. Further, most of what I've read on immigration needs suggests we don't require anything like as many immigrants as we bring in each year. Half of what we now bring in would do us fine, if they were the right kind of immigrants.

the net gain of two educated productive adults and their children outweighs the cost of a few babysitting grandparents...

Most immigrants don't even outweigh (economically) their own cost. Remember that until you pass a certain income level you don't even pay income taxes here. So if you're an immigrant with a dependent wife and three kids and you don't make a relatively high income you're not even paying for the services your immediate family uses, never mind that of parents or grandparents. And statistics show immigrants are faring worse now economically, than their predecessors used to, with higher poverty rates and lower income levels.

[Scotty]

So we meet again,my arch nemises "Wild Bill"

Oooo, arch nemisis? Can I be an arch-nemisis? Huh? Can II? Can I!? Buddy?

[WWWTT]

Oooo, arch nemisis? Can I be an arch-nemisis? Huh? Can II? Can I!? Buddy?

No!

I can only have one arch nemesis at a time.

Don't you know anything buddy,go ask punked.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Cite.

Cite for what?

You are the one that is making the clame that our family members are only a burden on society and make no significant contribution.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Eh? Heck, what country are you talking about???

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/visa.asp

Oh ya visitors visa "applications" are available.With a non refundable fee aswell.

I have bein to the Canada immigration site so many freakin times its mind boggling.

My immigration lawyer long ago advised me they are a waste of time and are just a scam since the consulates and embassy accept cash payments.

WWWTT

[wyly]

On the contrary. It's the bigger picture I'm looking at, and the long term picture of growing crowding and pollution in our cities, growing congestion on roadways, disappearing farmland and forests.

.

so now you're a socialist/green/conservative...you've given up on the conservative agenda of constant growth?...how do plan to sustain our growth economy/healthcare/pension system with a falling birth rate and no immigration...

You said they contributed to our society. I pointed out that most of these older immigrants aren't a part of our society and can't speak our language.

older retired canadians don't contribute to our society either...what difference does it make some grannie who never leaves her home speaks english, my pensioner neighbours speak polish SO WHAT!... it makes no difference other than you don't like them because they're not like you...

Broadly speaking, that's not incorrect. I think our western, secular culture is the most advanced in the world, and I see no help to it in importing millions of people from more backward societies and cultures, many of which are, by our standards, religious fanatics with outmoded values often inimical to our own. Therefore I would indeed be happier to be bringing in people from similar cultures with similar value systems.

religious fanatics like stockwell day and stephan harper? or the folks in boutiful bc or any number of hutterite communities?...you may be surprised to learn in many european countries our values are considered outmoded and backward,and they don't want to come here... the standard of living in many EU countries is equal to ours and in some even better...

Define few. With the economic situation being the way it is in many parts of Europe I bet we could satisfy most of our immigration requirements there. Further, most of what I've read on immigration needs suggests we don't require anything like as many immigrants as we bring in each year. Half of what we now bring in would do us fine, if they were the right kind of immigrants.

so you have no problem with greeks or portuges that don't speak english, so the right kind of immigrants are white correct?

Most immigrants don't even outweigh (economically) their own cost. Remember that until you pass a certain income level you don't even pay income taxes here. So if you're an immigrant with a dependent wife and three kids and you don't make a relatively high income you're not even paying for the services your immediate family uses, never mind that of parents or grandparents. And statistics show immigrants are faring worse now economically, than their predecessors used to, with higher poverty rates and lower income levels.

you're making generalizations based on on refugees most immigrants qualify on the points system and are skilled and educated, unskilled refugees are a minority, only about 10k per year out of 250k per year who have jobs waiting for them......the average immigrant and their children are better educated than canadians therefore a net benefit to the country...

[betsy]

Oh ya visitors visa "applications" are available.With a non refundable fee aswell.

I have bein to the Canada immigration site so many freakin times its mind boggling.

My immigration lawyer long ago advised me they are a waste of time and are just a scam since the consulates and embassy accept cash payments.

WWWTT

And we're supposed to take your word for it.

[RNG]

The Vancouver Sun had a story today about the Canadian Border Agency doing spot inspections of the Tamils that illegally entered Canada some months ago. I'm really disappointed that it appears most of them have been inflicted on us. Anyway, the thrust of the story was that they were shocked that they were being investigated, they thought that Canadians weren't subjected to such things. Well, they aren't Canadians, they are illegal immigrants. Who are being supported by my taxes. They should have been forced to stay on the ship till it sailed back to Sri Lanka.

[mikedavid00]

No doubt about that. We need more young immigrants that can speak the language and not so many old people.

And where are these people going to find work considering our high unemployment rate? They just wander in and everything is OK?

Why is Canada (and possibly Australia), the *ONLY* countries in the WORLD taking part in this insane immigration policy.

Something happened today with Islamic immigrants in Mississauga that made my wife and I VERY angry today. All their white rags and beards running in the middle of the street and holding up traffic. What a spit in the face of our laws and our country. We do NOT need them and their families coming to Canada.

If they do NOT have a job waiting for them (work visa), then they should NOT be coming AT ALL. This is how it's done in 99% of the other countries. The difference is, you can NEVER get citizenship there.

[mikedavid00]

I do actually think it makes some sense to prioritize young skilled immigrants over elderly relatives though...

May I ask you where these people are going to work when I can barely even find a job for myself? Do I need to remind you of our unemployment rate?

No other country lets in 'young educated' people either.

And no offense to anyone and I know this is in bad taste, but often these 'educated young immigrants' are people I always end up working with. They are people with extremely low work ethic, basic English comprehension, extremely poor work performance (mostly due to lack of 'iq'.. sorry just being honest), and they are simply not 'bright' people in the workplace mots of the time. They usually spend their time on personal calls speaking their foreign tongues on the phone in front of the whole office p*ssing everyone off. They use every religious and family excuse to get out of work, leave work at 3:30 each day. I don't expect any of you to know this because most here don't work at all or don't work in the private sector with immigrants but I *WISH* some of you guys can LIVE WHERE I LIVE. JUST COME HERE AND WORK WHERE I DO AND SEE WHAT I GO THROUGH EVERY DAY IN THIS HOLE.

My neighbors house just sold for $625,000 so don't anyone dare try to call me out on my credentials and the fact that I am a professional in the private sector work place. We pay taxes. A LOT of them. A lot of here on the forum DON'T. So *I* suffer the most here via immigration.

But most importantly, we LIVE WITH IMMIGRANTS. WE WORK WITH THE IMMIGRANTS. For me this is not an abstract thing in the news and TV. It's a reality for me like today having to slow down on a green light for a HUGE pack of terrorist looking Pakistani's in rags walking in the middle of the street ignoring our rules and laws.

I'm SICK AND TIRED of having to travel out to a neighboring city to do shopping just so I don't have to hear constant foreign tongues spoken around me all day and have their kids running around and the rags.. I can't stand the rags. It doesn't feel like home living in this.

I've seen OVER and OVER again Canadians lose jobs to these useless employees. The executives and managers love hiring them, and WHO HAS TO CARY THEM? WHO GETS STUCK WITH THEM? ME, MY WIFE, AND CANADIANS THAT'S WHO.

These young 'educated' immigrants are the freaking WORST employees there are. The WORST. AND WE DON'T HAVE JOBS FOR THEM ANYWAY.

WWWWT, go back to China if you want to be with your relatives. I dont want to pay for their health care bill, her prescriptions and it's nothing personal but I want you to know that as a Canadian, and this being MY country, I DO NOT WANT YOUR GRANDPARENTS HERE. GO VISIT THEM OR BUY THEM INSURANCE IN HONG KONG. I'M SICK OF HAVING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS JUST SO YOU CAN VOTE LIBERAL AND NDP.

[Roger Steele]

There has been a lot of animosity towards Canada's Immigration Policy and the number of Immigrants coming into our great country over the past few years.

I was embarrassed to hear my mother make a derogatory remark about immigrants a couple weeks ago while having lunch in a local restaurant. The reason it bother me was some of the stories I had heard from her over the years. Like the fact that when her youngest brother William started school the entire family had to start speaking English around the house to give William the best chance to learn the language more quickly. That’s correct; My Grandparents were not from Canada. My Grandfather had been born in a small village of Germans living in a community in the USSR called Rosenthal. Due to political unrest in the USSR at the turn of the century the entire village of German speaking people packed up and were selected to come to Canada. My Grandmother was born on the ship over as such she became the first Canadian in the family as being born on ship she receives the citizenship of the first country the ship sets port in, good old Canada. So here is my mother, granted she’s in her 70s, but complaining about immigrants, when her own parents had been immigrants.

Now the big difference between my Grandparents coming to Canada and some of the new immigrants to Canada in the past 30 years or more is attitude and future plans.

My Grandparents and their families came to Canada to become Canadians in every sense of the word. They learned the language, developed the land, followed the laws, contributed to the local economy and did everything they could to look, act and sound like the proud Canadians they were becoming.

Not all but far too many immigrants today insist that Canada needs to change so that they will feel comfortable and not embarrassed or insulted in any way. They have wanted the bible and prayer out of the school system, they have wanted the RCMP to change the dress code, which has been a uniform recognized around the world for a very long time. A lot of them do not care to learn our language. For the most part they have no wish to be Canadians they want Canada to change to suit them. They want to build their own little communities within our Canada.

When I was growing up we were called the melting pot of the world. I went to school and became friends with a fellow from France and fellow from the Ukraine and they and their families were just another family next door. Some of the new immigrants want to be “whatever nationality they are who just happen to live in Canada” I do not believe there is one nationality that is worse than any other. It’s just certain individuals in these groups who I believe are moving here for all the wrong reasons.

It saddens me that some of these new immigrants do not want to be true Canadians. We are some of the friendliest people on the planet. We are well liked by almost every Country in the World. When a disaster strikes we are always there to help out.

I personally enjoy people from other nationalities. Most of them are fascinating people with some wonderful stories to tell and I have learned a great deal from the ones I have had the honor to call friend.

I am not familiar enough with the current immigration Law, but I know it is not working the way I think it should! People should only be allowed in our Country if they plan to become Canadians, if they come with the intention of changing the country to fit their liking, I feel they are knocking at the wrong door.