betsy Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure if I heard Ignatieff and Layton right, regarding the changes they want to make on Immigration, re: re-unification. From what I understood, both want to make it easy and fast for extended families like grandparents to come to Canada. Am I right? Edited April 22, 2011 by betsy Quote
Mr.Canada Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 I'm not sure if I heard Ignatieff and Layton right, regarding the changes they want to make on Immigration, re: re-unification. From what I understood, both want to make it easy and fast for extended families like grandparents to come to Canada. Am I right? Yes, that's it exactly. They want more old people to come to Canada who are too old to work and contribute to our health system via taxes. But those same old people who come here will be using our health system at a time when it already stressed to its maximum. This is going to lead to the collapse of our health system in the future or else they'll have to raise taxes and introduce more fees to pay for these people to come to Canada to use our healthcare system while they've paid nothing into it. Not to mention OAS bundle they'll all recieve after a couple years if Ruby Dhalla gets her way and reduces they wait time to receive a pension for life from Canada from 10 years to 2 years. That is fairness according to the Liberals and NDP. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
WWWTT Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 I was at the NDP rally in Bramalea yesterday,and Layton mentioned that he would make this one of his priorities. He made reference to his mother in law,who lives with them in Toronto for the last 20yrs.And how easy it was for her to come over at the time but is now very difficult for families. I am not sure of Ignatieffs exact stance,however Andrew Kania(liberal candidate and incumbant Brampton west MP) has assured me that an increase in funding would be in the works.This would alleviate backloged waiting times. If there was a leftwing government in place of some variation or other I believe that immigration would be one subject matter easy for all three parties(bloq,liberal and NDP)to agree on and pass easily through both houses. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Yes, that's it exactly. They want more old people to come to Canada who are too old to work and contribute to our health system via taxes. But those same old people who come here will be using our health system at a time when it already stressed to its maximum. This is going to lead to the collapse of our health system in the future or else they'll have to raise taxes and introduce more fees to pay for these people to come to Canada to use our healthcare system while they've paid nothing into it. Not to mention OAS bundle they'll all recieve after a couple years if Ruby Dhalla gets her way and reduces they wait time to receive a pension for life from Canada from 10 years to 2 years. That is fairness according to the Liberals and NDP. Hey buddy watch your mouth These are peoples family members you are talking about. They take care of younger family members and contribute to the families well being with experience,love and compassion. Do not belittle an elders contribution to a family and society! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Not only are they family members, they are money-sucking leeches. The good news is, they vote for whomever allowed them to exist as leeches. Be nice or the NDP and Libs will be angry with you. There is absolutely no good reason for grandparents to come to Canada. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Scotty Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 If there was a leftwing government in place of some variation or other I believe that immigration would be one subject matter easy for all three parties(bloq,liberal and NDP)to agree on and pass easily through both houses. Only in one sense. Yes, the NDP and Liberals are more than willing to sacrifice Canada's economic interests for cheap political gain. But Duceppe won't allow immigrants into Quebec unless they are French. That's been Quebec's immigration policy for quite some time, and they have special control over immigrants in order to make certain of it. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Hey buddy watch your mouth These are peoples family members you are talking about. They take care of younger family members and contribute to the families well being with experience,love and compassion. Do not belittle an elders contribution to a family and society! WWWTT They contribute nothing to OUR society, and mostly don't even speak English or French. They require vast sums of health care dollars for which they have not contributed. And isn't the aging population held up by pro-immigration people as one of THE major reasons why we must continue to bring in masses of third worlders every year? How exactly is that aided by bringing in old people? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
WWWTT Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 They contribute nothing to OUR society, and mostly don't even speak English or French. They require vast sums of health care dollars for which they have not contributed. And isn't the aging population held up by pro-immigration people as one of THE major reasons why we must continue to bring in masses of third worlders every year? How exactly is that aided by bringing in old people? Your doing a fantastic job at hanging yourself so please by all means take more rope WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Scotty Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Your doing a fantastic job at hanging yourself so please by all means take more rope WWWTT Oh, right, I forgot you WERE a third worlder. No offense intended... buddy. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Hanging himself? Not even close. He just nailed the whole family reunification issue in a sentence or two. Too many "old people" cause the payer pyramid to turn upside down - now we need more immigrants to pay taxes - then we bring in their "old" relatives" - now we need more immigrants to pay taxes - etc, etc. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Smallc Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Too many "old people" cause the payer pyramid to turn upside down No doubt about that. We need more young immigrants that can speak the language and not so many old people. Quote
WWWTT Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Cmon Scotty Hydaboss get some more of the righties in here.Me vs the two of you isn't even worth my time. Get at least two more righties in here and then we will continue Good luck WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Smallc, you're bang on. I've never had a problem with any immigrants coming to Canada, as long as they bring their strong backs with them (figuratively - could be their creds). Where I have issues with it is when, for every individual that comes over and pays taxes, they want to bring more than just their immediate family (wife, kids, husband, pet iguana). So we end up with a situation like this (for the sake of argument): Husband (lands a decent job and pays taxes) Wife (stays at home to look after 3 munchkins) 3 munchkins four grandparents (all are on Canada's social programs - ESL?) one great grandparent two great aunts and one great uncle And who, exactly, thinks that one taxpayer is contributing enough to the pot to support all of them (never mind the other seniors in Canada - you remember - the reason they were allowed to come here in the first place?) Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Cmon Scotty Hydaboss get some more of the righties in here.Me vs the two of you isn't even worth my time. Please take it easy on me. I'm still learning to spell. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Scotty Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Cmon Scotty Hydaboss get some more of the righties in here.Me vs the two of you isn't even worth my time. Get at least two more righties in here and then we will continue Good luck WWWTT Cause you're such an impressive and eloquent debater. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Husband (lands a decent job and pays taxes) Wife (stays at home to look after 3 munchkins) 3 munchkins four grandparents (all are on Canada's social programs - ESL?) one great grandparent two great aunts and one great uncle Actually it's more like this. You bring in the one couple with kids. Then they sponsor their parents. Then the parents sponsor all their other children - and their spouses - and their kids. These other children's spouses then sponsor their parents, who then sponsor their own children. This is how the family reunification program took over our immigration system back in the eighties. We've slowly been drawing away from that, but even now the majority of immigrants who come here are only allowed in because they're related to someone we see as 'skilled' in some way. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
WWWTT Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 One more righty guys then its on Keep trying because I'm itchin WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Actually it's more like this. You bring in the one couple with kids. Then they sponsor their parents. Then the parents sponsor all their other children - and their spouses - and their kids. These other children's spouses then sponsor their parents, who then sponsor their own children. This is how the family reunification program took over our immigration system back in the eighties. We've slowly been drawing away from that, but even now the majority of immigrants who come here are only allowed in because they're related to someone we see as 'skilled' in some way. All true. And then you end up with multiples of what I just described. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Keep trying because I'm itchin WWWTT Apparently what happens in Vegas doesn't necessarily stay in Vegas. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
wyly Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) They contribute nothing to OUR society, and mostly don't even speak English or French. They require vast sums of health care dollars for which they have not contributed. And isn't the aging population held up by pro-immigration people as one of THE major reasons why we must continue to bring in masses of third worlders every year? How exactly is that aided by bringing in old people? no one will ever credit you with being able to see the bigger picture which is common to supporters of conservative xenophobia... "don't even speak English or French"...so what you're saying is it would be acceptable if they're english or american, aussie?...what does it matter if you could speak with them you have no intentions of ever doing so...I've a pair non-english speaking grand parents neighbours I've never spoken to them I've no interest in doing so so what does it matter if they speak english..but I don't think your problem with them isn't that don't speak english it's that they aren't like you... your right wing fantasy world is centered on unlimited growth (which isn't possible)... to meet sustained unlimited growth requires a constantly growing population canada has a ZPG birth rate the so only way to meet this growth is through immigration...few immigrants from your "acceptable" sources have any interest or need to come here which leaves us to recruit from 3rd world countries, countries with very poor if any social system to care for their parents...maybe abandoning parents is part of your right wing culture but for most of us it is not, if they couldn't bring their parents they wouldn't come...bringing in a adult couple saves canadian taxpayer educating two people as well as supplying 2-3 children that canadians are not producing... the net gain of two educated productive adults and their children outweighs the cost of a few babysitting grandparents... Edited April 22, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Hydraboss Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 wyly, I'd love to see the math on that assumption. It would be 2-3 generations down the road before the metrics of finances proved you correct (if at all). As for the source of immigration, those that are beneficial to Canada (educated, skilled, etc), those individuals or core families will move here of their own will. The ones that won't are of no use to this country. Point in fact (and go ahead with the xenophobe statements) - we don't need any more cab drivers. Regardless of intent, this is where a hell of a lot of "immigrants" end up when they come from third world shitholes. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it's true. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
wyly Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) wyly, i'd love to see the math on that assumption. It would be 2-3 generations down the road before the metrics of finances proved you correct (if at all). As for the source of immigration, those that are beneficial to Canada (educated, skilled, etc), those individuals or core families will move here of their own will. The ones that won't are of no use to this country.oh really...for the price of one grandmother mrs wyly's parents produced 6 extremely productive taxpayers, not only did her parents work 12 hr days 24-7 to become very wealthy taxpayers and all her siblings are successful productive professionals I'd say that was a great deal for canada....the xenophobes want whities like themselves problem with that is europeans don't have any need to come here to improve their lives...Point in fact (and go ahead with the xenophobe statements) - we don't need any more cab drivers. Regardless of intent, this is where a hell of a lot of "immigrants" end up when they come from third world shitholes. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it's true.and ya we do need more cab drivers every culture has it's entry level jobs that the natives will not do, in the past that was where nearly all immigrants started out Edited April 22, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
mikedavid00 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 I'm not sure if I heard Ignatieff and Layton right, regarding the changes they want to make on Immigration, re: re-unification. From what I understood, both want to make it easy and fast for extended families like grandparents to come to Canada. Am I right? yes. And the only questions I am going to ask: Who is going to pay for the healthcare and old welfare? Betsy come to where I live you will see these Elderly walking around the streets in their rags. In every store, not speaking English. And we are stuck paying for them. NO other country does this except us. Quote ---- Charles Anthony banned me for 30 days on April 28 for 'obnoxious libel' when I suggested Jack Layton took part in illegal activities in a message parlor. Claiming a politician took part in illegal activity is not rightful cause for banning and is what is discussed here almost daily in one capacity or another. This was really a brownshirt style censorship from a moderator on mapleleafweb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1oGB-BKdZg---
WWWTT Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 Not only are they family members, they are money-sucking leeches. The good news is, they vote for whomever allowed them to exist as leeches. Be nice or the NDP and Libs will be angry with you. There is absolutely no good reason for grandparents to come to Canada. "Money sucking leeches" really you have a site to back this up? Actually do you have a site to back up any of your opinions on this subject? I wouldn't usually ask but for some reason I just can't seem to find anything to back up your argument.I wonder why? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Evening Star Posted April 22, 2011 Report Posted April 22, 2011 I do actually think it makes some sense to prioritize young skilled immigrants over elderly relatives though... Quote
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