Paul Martin, Jean Chretien join failed Ignatieff Liberal Campaign

[Harry]

Liberals bring in big guns for crucial final stretch

Stuck in the polls with no sign of a post-debate bounce, the Liberals are turning to former prime ministers Paul Martin and Jean Chrétien to rally the troops down the final stretch.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-bring-in-big-guns-for-crucial-final-stretch/article1987896/

[capricorn]

Big mistake. I see Chretien and Martin I think Sponsorship, Shawinigate and associated Liberal sins.

[cybercoma]

I agree. Martin and Chretien are the nail in the coffin. Bad move. People want to see that all of that garbage has been cleaned up. Bringing those two in is going to increase the bleeding rather than stop it.

[kimmy]

How could they possibly think this is a good idea?

Chretien is a piece of dog crap. His endorsement kind of makes me want to go set fire to Liberal lawn signs, even though I'm voting Liberal.

If Ignatieff punched Chretien in the face, he would immediately become my top choice for Prime Minister.

-k

[Battletoads]

Big mistake. I see Chretien and Martin I think Sponsorship, Shawinigate and associated Liberal sins.

Based on what I've seen when you see Liberal you think that anyways.

[August1991]

Watching the debates, a thought ran throught my mind: Ignatieff is prepared to Take One For The Team.

At this point, I thought, Ignatieff wants to protect the Liberals for the future.

----

How naive. Ever the flake, Ignatieff.

The problem is that while Ignatieff may believe there is a Liberal team, in fact there is no team. The federal Liberal Party is merely a club of power freaks.

Trudeau understood this, Ignatieff doesn't.

Edited April 16, 2011 by August1991

[Bob]

How could they possibly think this is a good idea?

Chretien is a piece of dog crap. His endorsement kind of makes me want to go set fire to Liberal lawn signs, even though I'm voting Liberal.

If Ignatieff punched Chretien in the face, he would immediately become my top choice for Prime Minister.

-k

Are you voting Liberal because of Ignatieff, the Liberal Party's policies, or because of your local Liberal MP?

[kimmy]

Are you voting Liberal because of Ignatieff, the Liberal Party's policies, or because of your local Liberal MP?

In terms of the party platforms, I was leaning toward the Liberals until they unveiled their Three Big Programs. Only one of those was much of a hit with me, the assistance for post secondary education. I'm not much of a proponent of Big National Daycare, but could live with it if there was some form of means testing. The Big National Seniors Care plan really aggressively annoys me and is enough to make me question whether I would want these guys to be in charge after all. Conversely, the Conservatives platform is devoid of big expensive plans, but I've lost my confidence in how they manage the public purse and I have come to suspect that despite the absense of big expensive promises, they'll manage to spend a lot of money anyway. And I don't think canceling the planned corporate tax rollbacks is such a bad thing, because I'm not sure those tax cuts are really helping the economy.

On the leaders, I find Harper greatly preferable to Ignatieff. I don't mind that he came from an aristocratic background, I do find it slightly off-putting that he tried to spin it like his family were paupers after the Russian revolution. I don't mind that he's worked and lived in other countries. I don't mind that his wife isn't a Canadian citizen. I'm reading one of his books. I wasn't predisposed to dislike the guy. But this election was Canada's big chance "to get to know" Michael Ignatieff, and as I get to know him, I find that he completely bugs the hell out of me. I'm a smart rational person, and I'm not going to support somebody as Prime Minister based on whether I could imagine myself having a beer with them. But I absolutely could not have a beer with Michael Ignatieff.

But none of that actually matters, because I live in a riding where a landslide Conservative win is inevitable. I can vote for whoever I like without any illusion that it makes any difference in the national big picture. I'm voting for my local Liberal candidate because she seems like somebody I'd really admire if I knew her in person, and I think she's deserving of my support. My local Conservative struck me as a bit of a knob when I met him. The remaining candidates are granola-headed flakes. So this isn't a terribly difficult choice for me.

-k

[scribblet]

IMO not a good idea for the Liberals to do that, they should distance themselves from adscam and the Librano idea. I really believe the Liberals would move ahead with a better leader, even Bob Rae would be better for them, Ontario baggage and all.

Edited April 16, 2011 by scribblet

[Tilter]

Dang--- the traditional wisdom is that rats LEAVE a sinking ship :lol:

[punked]

Iggy was doing a poor job of running the 1993 campaign (Promise everything deliver nothing) so they brought in the guys who actually ran it. Problem is all they remind me of is how much they lied about what they would do in power.

[cybercoma]

Kimmy, the NDP not running candidates in your riding?

[kimmy]

Kimmy, the NDP not running candidates in your riding?

I included their candidate under "granola headed flakes". That may not have been entirely fair.

-k

[punked]

I included their candidate under "granola headed flakes". That may not have been entirely fair.

-k

What is their backround?

[August1991]

In terms of the party platforms, I was leaning toward the Liberals until they unveiled their Three Big Programs. Only one of those was much of a hit with me, the assistance for post secondary education.

Kimmy, if you think the Liberals would actually implement the post-secondary programme they promise in a way that will benefit you then you are far more naive than you let on here.

----

I'll stick this funny Ignatieff clip in here. What can you say? The guy's out of touch:

Edited April 19, 2011 by August1991

[cybercoma]

I included their candidate under "granola headed flakes". That may not have been entirely fair.

-k

You make Jack Layton's mustache cry.

[kimmy]

Kimmy, if you think the Liberals would actually implement the post-secondary programme they promise in a way that will benefit you then you are far more naive than you let on here.

It does look like the bursaries are for highschool graduates, and I've been out of highschool for a long time. So probably I'm not eligible. That's ok. I don't need to directly benefit from a program to think it's a good idea.

I'll stick this funny Ignatieff clip in here. What can you say? The guy's out of touch:

That's both funny, and a little painful to watch. I'm not old enough to know... is that what it was like when Robert Stanfield dropped the football?

-k

[youshouldknowbetter]

Watching the debates, a thought ran throught my mind: Ignatieff is prepared to Take One For The Team.

At this point, I thought, Ignatieff wants to protect the Liberals for the future.

----

How naive. Ever the flake, Ignatieff.

The problem is that while Ignatieff may believe there is a Liberal team, in fact there is no team. The federal Liberal Party is merely a club of power freaks.

Trudeau understood this, Ignatieff doesn't.

That's an interesting statement given that Ignatieff was flanked by members of his caucus for the first few days of the campaign. There is a Liberal team but he can't bring them together in the way that most of his predecessors could.

[Scotty]

but I've lost my confidence in how they manage the public purse and I have come to suspect that despite the absense of big expensive promises, they'll manage to spend a lot of money anyway. And I don't think canceling the planned corporate tax rollbacks is such a bad thing, because I'm not sure those tax cuts are really helping the economy.

The sad reality is that as long as we have unstable minority government there's going to be an overwhelming desire to buy people's votes on the part of whomever is in charge of the government.

Thanks again, Kaybekers.

[August1991]

That's an interesting statement given that Ignatieff was flanked by members of his caucus for the first few days of the campaign. There is a Liberal team but he can't bring them together in the way that most of his predecessors could.

I.n 1984, at a certain point, it was clear that Turner was going to lose and the Liberals went into "save the furniture" mode. That's what made me think of Ignatieff's behaviour. He's TOFTT.

In Ignatieff's mind, there's a Liberal team. When Trudeau left the federal NDP in Quebec in 1964 and joined the Liberals, he knew that he was harnessing a force that would give him power. Trudeau never had illusions about the Liberal Party.

By 2011, there is no team and no force. Ignatieff has nothing to join. The federal Liberal party is a series of MP fiefdoms and a rump of core Anglo/immigrant supporters in urban areas.

----

Maybe a future Liberal leader will overcome the sponsorship scandal but Ignatieff is not that leader. Have you noticed how neither Dion nor Ignatieff have never really talked about it? At most, Ignatieff managed to get Martin and Chretien to agree to do the same thing.

[WWWTT]

How could they possibly think this is a good idea?

Chretien is a piece of dog crap. His endorsement kind of makes me want to go set fire to Liberal lawn signs, even though I'm voting Liberal.

If Ignatieff punched Chretien in the face, he would immediately become my top choice for Prime Minister.

-k

Excellent piece of literature,are you a profesional wrestler?

WWWTT

[Benz]

That's silly. Ignatieff did indeed a huge mistake. Sooner than he can figure, its rather him that will join Chretien and Martin... off the political scene.

[betsy]

Liberals bring in big guns for crucial final stretch

BILL CURRY

SUDBURY— From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Published Friday, Apr. 15, 2011 9:02PM EDT

Last updated Saturday, Apr. 16, 2011 7:55PM EDT

2199 comments Email Print/License Decrease text size

Increase text size Stuck in the polls with no sign of a post-debate bounce, the Liberals are turning to former prime ministers Paul Martin and Jean Chrétien to rally the troops down the final stretch.

CTV Powerplay Don Martin said bringing out Chretien and Martin reminds him of a Monty Python movie "The Holy Grail," where in one scene shows caretakers go about shouting "Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead!"

[Bryan]

... is that what it was like when Robert Stanfield dropped the football?

-k

Ignatieff has "dropped the ball" a lot worse many times over in this campaign, the difference is he's already pretty much at the Liberal's basement for support (and far lower than what Stanfield ended up with in 1974), so all it's done is reinforced the position he already has in the polls.

Stanfield only finished two seats behind Trudeau in 1972, but finished 46 seats back in 1974 after he "dropped the ball". The funny part is, Stanfield actually increased his percentage of the vote slightly despite losing so many seats.