TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 if it's illegal in the usa not here then it's not illegal, whether it's illegal or illegal in canada will have no effect on smuggling into the the us.Not true. A legal industry here would greatly increase the amount of smuggling because it would suddenly become hugely profitable. For that reason legalization in Canada would increase the power of organized crime. People who think otherwise are being naive. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 Not true. A legal industry here would greatly increase the amount of smuggling because it would suddenly become hugely profitable. For that reason legalization in Canada would increase the power of organized crime. People who think otherwise are being naive. That's why I don't want it to become an industry. Just legal to grow , possess and smoke in personal quantities. It's legal in Spain for personal use yet it isn't an industry really, other then buying and selling of different seed strains. I think Canada is ready to become adults and decide for themselves. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
wyly Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 Not true. A legal industry here would greatly increase the amount of smuggling because it would suddenly become hugely profitable. For that reason legalization in Canada would increase the power of organized crime. People who think otherwise are being naive. what an absurd leap of logic, you are naive...pot smuggling into the the US is already popular because it is HUGELY profitable right now despite sever prison sentences in the US...making it legal to produce is not going to turn law abiding farmers into criminal smugglers that opportunity is already there should they wish to...criminals are not deterred by laws and punishment, law abiding citizens are, a law abiding alberta farmer is not suddenly going to become the center of canadian drug smuggling cartel... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 what an absurd leap of logic, you are naive...pot smuggling into the the US is already popular because it is HUGELY profitable right now despite sever prison sentences in the US.And it would become even more popular if they could grow the stuff in Canada with no fear of it being confiscated by the authorities because it is for domestic consumption (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Legalization will make the organized crime problem worse in Canada whether you want to admit or not. Quote
Topaz Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 Are you guys kidding? Its bad enough that drivers have to worry about drunk drivers, now you want them to drive high?? Medical marijuana is one thing but just putting it out there, no way. Even the Tory party is against this being legal. Quote
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) And it would become even more popular if they could grow the stuff in Canada with no fear of it being confiscated by the authorities because it is for domestic consumption (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Legalization will make the organized crime problem worse in Canada whether you want to admit or not. Just the opposite was seen in Portugal. Google it. Just one link here but there are lots. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html The link doesn't work. I double checked it. Don't know what the problem is. Edited April 23, 2011 by RNG Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Just the opposite was seen in Portugal.Portugal is not make the production or distribution of drugs legal. It simply decriminalized possession. If you get caught possessing drugs you are expected to seek treatment - something the pots heads pushing legalization would likely oppose since they think marijuana is 'harmless'. Edited April 23, 2011 by TimG Quote
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 Portugal is not make the production or distribution of drugs legal. It simply decriminalized possession. If you get caught possessing drugs you are expected to seek treatment - something the pots heads pushing legalization would likely oppose since they think marijuana is 'harmless'. You are offered treatment, which you are free to refuse without penalty. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 You are offered treatment, which you are free to refuse without penalty.You still have to go through the process with each arrest. That means you keep possession a secret. Drugs are still controlled substances that cannot be legally produced or sold.I actually favour Portugal's approach if for no reason but to reduce the workload of police. But lets not pretend they have legalized anything. Quote
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 You still have to go through the process with each arrest. That means you keep possession a secret. Drugs are still controlled substances that cannot be legally produced or sold. I actually favour Portugal's approach if for no reason but to reduce the workload of police. But lets not pretend they have legalized anything. They have legalized possession for use by yourself. I have never been sure but have always thought that "decriminalizing" is what the Dutch did. The laws are still on the books, but the government instructed the police to not enforce them. That isn't the case in Portugal. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 That isn't the case in Portugal.The are no criminal penalties but you still have to explain yourself if you are caught with drugs and your stash will be conficated by the authorities. There is a big difference between legalization of drugs (i.e. make it like alcohol) and decriminalization (which is what Portugal did). Quote
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 The are no criminal penalties but you still have to explain yourself if you are caught with drugs and your stash will be conficated by the authorities. There is a big difference between legalization of drugs (i.e. make it like alcohol) and decriminalization (which is what Portugal did). But apparently you explain yourself to a panel that consists of a psychologist, a doctor and a social worker, not a court. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 But apparently you explain yourself to a panel that consists of a psychologist, a doctor and a social worker, not a court.Yes. I don't have to explain myself to a social worker if I am caught drunk with a can of beer. Why can't you see that even in your Portugal example drugs are controlled substance that cannot be sold legally. People in this thread seem to think that we should be not only decriminalizing but make the production and sale of drugs legal. I can support the former but not the latter. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 Are you guys kidding? Its bad enough that drivers have to worry about drunk drivers, now you want them to drive high?? Medical marijuana is one thing but just putting it out there, no way. Even the Tory party is against this being legal. IS this a problem in other countries that have some form of legalization? People who would smoke it in Canada while legal are the same people who smoke and drive now with it being illegal. Are you trying to say that more people would use cannabis if it were legal? Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 Yes. I don't have to explain myself to a social worker if I am caught drunk with a can of beer. Why can't you see that even in your Portugal example drugs are controlled substance that cannot be sold legally. People in this thread seem to think that we should be not only decriminalizing but make the production and sale of drugs legal. I can support the former but not the latter. I would agree for all drugs except weed. Legalize the growing and control the selling, just like alcohol. Make lots of tax money and make many criminals unemployed. And I have been told by people whom I trust that studies have shown that overall drug use, including weed has actually decreased in Portugal since they "made the change". Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 I would agree for all drugs except weed. Legalize the growing and control the selling, just like alcohol. Make lots of tax money and make many criminals unemployed.My response that: it is in our economic interest to keep the border with the US as free as possible. Therefore, forget about legalizing dope until the US does. Quote
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 My response that: it is in our economic interest to keep the border with the US as free as possible. Therefore, forget about legalizing dope until the US does. I seriously question whether the US would react in any way. There is so much BC weed going into Washington and Idaho now I don't think it would make a difference. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) I seriously question whether the US would react in any way. There is so much BC weed going into Washington and Idaho now I don't think it would make a difference.They would react because the volume would increase since the organized gangs would be making a lot more money since the cost of goods will have dropped dramatically. Even if there was some doubt over the US reaction: why risk it? Legalizing dope would not reduce crime in Canada because of smuggling so there is little benefit to us. Edited April 23, 2011 by TimG Quote
RNG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) DELETED I tried to post the link again. It doesn't work on this forum. Google "drug legalization in portugal" and follow the first link. Edited April 23, 2011 by RNG Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
TimG Posted April 23, 2011 Report Posted April 23, 2011 I tried to post the link again. It doesn't work on this forum. Google "drug legalization in portugal" and follow the first link.As I said. Decriminalization is likely a good idea. That is what Portugal did. It is no argument for legalization of the production and distribution of dope. Quote
RNG Posted April 24, 2011 Report Posted April 24, 2011 As I said. Decriminalization is likely a good idea. That is what Portugal did. It is no argument for legalization of the production and distribution of dope. I guess we have both expressed our views and will agree to disagree. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
eyeball Posted April 24, 2011 Report Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) But apparently you explain yourself to a panel that consists of a psychologist, a doctor and a social worker, not a court. What happens if you simply ignore them or tell them to get off your back and mind their own damn business? Edited April 24, 2011 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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