Despicable Comment by an NDP Candidate

[Shakeyhands]

I just talked to someone who attended that meeting (not Clement) which was in Burk’s Falls who confirmed the comments.

She made the remarks in her opening statement referencing Clement’s campaign van (which has a photo of him on the side), and the long gun registry, as being a good target yadda, yadda.

Of course, this is all made up, she never really said it

Well I just spoke to someone who said that Tony made the whole thing up because he wanted to take attention away from his boondoggle with the Mayor and the GM...

Seriously, I hope that if she did, she's admonished for it, it's a stupid thing to have said and it has no place even if said in jest.

[Shakeyhands]

CPC's track record for veracity outstrips the media and the opposition by several orders of magnitude.

That is quite a collection of $5 words that is in complete contrast to the reality in which we find ourselves in.

[cybercoma]

long gun registry

[aside]I was against the long gun registry for the longest time. I recently saw some stats that indicated long guns being the primary weapon used in domestic homicides, which made me second guess my opposition.[/aside] Edited April 12, 2011 by cybercoma

[M.Dancer]

[aside]I was against the long gun registry for the longest time. I recently saw some stats that indicated long guns being the primary weapon used in domestic homicides, which made me second guess my opposition.[/aside]

I doubt that. Knives and blunt trauma are far more readily available.

[M.Dancer]

Well I just spoke to someone who said that Tony made the whole thing up because he wanted to take attention away from his boondoggle with the Mayor and the GM...

I just spoke to someone who said that someone said that to get the focus back to something else....

[William Ashley]

It'd make things easier for those people, just being helpful.

what about these shirts for Conservative Party Candidates?

http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wordansfiles/products/2011/3/31/160392/23/front/160392_original.jpg

Or maybe instead of bag over heads they can use these things as capes.

http://images5.cpcache.com/product_zoom/150321935v16_400x400_Front.jpg

I'm geussing there might be a few appreciative people.. might even win a few marks come voting time.

I'm not saying I'm gonna do it or that someone else should, but it is in jest. Jest in case ...n///g/s

Now I can't advocate for people to go and kill the candidates, but I can say that even if the alleged comment was aledgedly made --- I'm not sure Mr. Clement will do it, but it might get a few laughs.

I'm geussing the cons have enough practice they don't need the targets though.

Edited April 12, 2011 by William Ashley

[scribblet]

Well I just spoke to someone who said that Tony made the whole thing up because he wanted to take attention away from his boondoggle with the Mayor and the GM...

Seriously, I hope that if she did, she's admonished for it, it's a stupid thing to have said and it has no place even if said in jest.

I agree, but it wasn't said in jest, the room went quiet, you could hear a pin drop... some of these small town meetings just don't get reported on.

[Shakeyhands]

I agree, but it wasn't said in jest, the room went quiet, you could hear a pin drop... some of these small town meetings just don't get reported on.

You mean she actually encouraged someone to shoot at the van? No one could be that stupid.

Surprised I haven't seen a single report of it in any of the dailys. Why do you figure that is?

[cybercoma]

I doubt that. Knives and blunt trauma are far more readily available.

Knives and blunt trauma combined were higher than long guns, but not individually. That's neither here nor there though. The point is that handguns were not the weapon of choice. I'm merely suggesting that maybe it is important for the cops to know if there's a long-gun in the home if they're responding to a domestic violence call.

Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread. Sorry to bring it up.

Edited April 12, 2011 by cybercoma

[blueblood]

Knives and blunt trauma combined were higher than long guns, but not individually. That's neither here nor there though. The point is that handguns were not the weapon of choice. I'm merely suggesting that maybe it is important for the cops to know if there's a long-gun in the home if they're responding to a domestic violence call.

Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread. Sorry to bring it up.

Here's a better idea, how about assuming a gun in every home so as not to become complacent on the job. Crooks don't register guns.

[scribblet]

You mean she actually encouraged someone to shoot at the van? No one could be that stupid.

Surprised I haven't seen a single report of it in any of the dailys. Why do you figure that is?

It sounded that way. The media doesn't report on all the small town meetings, maybe they didn't care - unless it was a conservative who said it of course. If you think I and Tony Clements are making this up, that I've nothing better to do than sit at this keyboard and make a whole pile of stuff up, fine, whatever makes you happy.

[M.Dancer]

Knives and blunt trauma combined were higher than long guns, but not individually. That's neither here nor there though.

It is very here and there...

Given that...

I recently saw some stats that indicated long guns being the primary weapon used in domestic homicides,

And I would posit that long gun murders are not even third. If you have relevant stats regardingf spousal homicide, I would like to see them.

That being said...in 2009 the most common way to murder someone is...stabbing

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/LEGAL01-eng.htm

[Shakeyhands]

You guys better keep it down or "someone" will be in here whining about gun control too.

[kimmy]

I think it's a non-issue.

However, I'd like to hear why people who blamed "heated rhetoric" for the assassination attempt on Gabrielle Giffords explain why this is different.

-k

[cybercoma]

It is very here and there...

Given that...

And I would posit that long gun murders are not even third. If you have relevant stats regardingf spousal homicide, I would like to see them.

That being said...in 2009 the most common way to murder someone is...stabbing

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/LEGAL01-eng.htm

I stated very clearly that I was talking about domestic homicide, not all murders in Canada. Long guns are the leading weapon used in these homicides, if you don't combine blunt force trauma and stabbings. Your general statistics about all murders is beside the point because I was talking about domestic violence.

[kimmy]

I stated very clearly that I was talking about domestic homicide, not all murders in Canada. Long guns are the leading weapon used in these homicides, if you don't combine blunt force trauma and stabbings. Your general statistics about all murders is beside the point because I was talking about domestic violence.

Regardless, how does the long gun registry prevent domestic violence? I'm pretty sure that registered rifles and shotguns are just as dangerous as unregistered ones.

I'm still giggling about Michael Ignatieff's comments on the issue during the debate tonight.

"When I talk to police, they tell me they check the registry before they respond to a domestic violence call! That way they know for sure if they're walking into a dangerous situation! The registry keeps our police safe!"

-k

[cybercoma]

Emotionally charged situations with long guns that many times end up in suicides? It's probably good to know that the guns are there. I'm not quite sure I understand the issue anyway? I tend to agree with Duceppe on the matter. You have to register your dogs, but not your firearms? It just doesn't make sense.

[kimmy]

Emotionally charged situations with long guns that many times end up in suicides? It's probably good to know that the guns are there.

So you're responding to a report of a domestic disturbance, you call up the registry on the way to the residence and it comes up with no registered guns. So you walk in assuming that everything is clear, and now your head is red spray and chunks stuck to the wall, because the drug-gang mooks inside didn't register their weapons.

Look, if you're a police officer, you need to assume you're walking into a dangerous situation whether the registry says there's guns there or not. So the idea that the registry informs them of potential danger is retarded at best, and worse might even give them a false sense of security. So that's a moronic argument for the registry's usefulness.

I'm not quite sure I understand the issue anyway? I tend to agree with Duceppe on the matter. You have to register your dogs, but not your firearms? It just doesn't make sense.

I actually agree with that premise. However, I object to bullshit arguments being made to falsely illustrate its usefulness.

-k

[bloodyminded]

That makes perfect sense of course.

An alleged comment, referred to on an obscure tweet by a candidate currently under a cloud of suspicion from a leaked Auditor General's report, if it were reversed, would cause mass outrage.

That is an exact summation.

Somehow, evidently, your hypocritical partisanship has been exposed here, Shwa!

Heck, we can all start speculating about what one another would say (but haven't, a minor irritant to the logic) under such-and-such a scenario...and then cry "hypocrite!" based on our own concoction. It's awesome.

[Shakeyhands]

and yet we've have still seen absolutely nothing in the media about this?

That biased media... why I oughta...

[M.Dancer]

I stated very clearly that I was talking about domestic homicide, not all murders in Canada. Long guns are the leading weapon used in these homicides, if you don't combine blunt force trauma and stabbings. Your general statistics about all murders is beside the point because I was talking about domestic violence.

Yes..and you have yet to provide the data while I have...

Given that a sizeable percentage of murders are between people who know each other, I find it remarkable that the spousal abuse would deviate so much form the norm...in fact..

Stabbing is the most common cause of death: Over that same period the ODVDRC found that 41 per cent of spousal homicides involved stabbing, 29 per cent a gunshot wound, 9 per cent a beating, 6 per cent strangulation, and 3 per cent each poisoning and burns.

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20080411_141047_4888

29% a gunshot wound....now we need to know of the 29% (which is clearly not the most....how many were long guns and how many were pistols....and more to the point, should we register knives?

Now...there were ...wait for it....

There were 65 (sixty five) spousal homicides in 2009...so we are talking about 19 people killed by a firearm.

[cybercoma]

Yes..and you have yet to provide the data while I have...

Given that a sizeable percentage of murders are between people who know each other, I find it remarkable that the spousal abuse would deviate so much form the norm...in fact..

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20080411_141047_4888

29% a gunshot wound....now we need to know of the 29% (which is clearly not the most....how many were long guns and how many were pistols....and more to the point, should we register knives?

Now...there were ...wait for it....

There were 65 (sixty five) spousal homicides in 2009...so we are talking about 19 people killed by a firearm.

I don't need to give you the stats because, frankly, I don't care if you're convinced or not and I don't have a publically available link at my disposal. All of your links to stats and arguments in circles have nothing to do with the point that I made anyway. When people are killed in domestic homicides it's more often by gun than any other weapon and when it is by gun it's most often a long-gun. If you don't believe that information, I don't care. All of your statistics about the overall homicide rate and other types of gun violence in the general populaton have nothing to do with what I said. Moreover, you seem to mistakenly think that domestic homicide only includes spousal violence, when it doesn't. There are people that kill their children as well.

From what I can tell from the stats that you've posted, which again have nothing to do with the point I was making, they only support the idea that perhaps the cops should know when there's a long-gun in the home. If the likelihood of someone using a long-gun to kill someone in a domestic dispute is higher than long-gun homicides in general, then perhaps it's useful for the cops, judges, and prosecutors to know about these things. Having to register long-guns gives judges more control over protecting husbands, wives, exes, and children, in cases where someone has been shown to be prone to domestic violence, by making it more difficult for someone to own a long-gun. It also informs the police of their presence in the home when someone makes a domestic call. It seems to me, and I couldn't possibly care less if you disagree, like the minor inconvenience of having to register a gun, not unlike registering a vehicle or pet, is outweighed by the benefits.

[M.Dancer]

When people are killed in domestic homicides it's more often by gun than any other weapon and when it is by gun it's most often a long-gun.

Did you read the links? I proved you wrong. Do I need to post it again?

Okay

Stabbing is the most common cause of death: Over that same period the ODVDRC found that 41 per cent of spousal homicides involved stabbing, 29 per cent a gunshot wound, 9 per cent a beating, 6 per cent strangulation, and 3 per cent each poisoning and burns.

I don't care if you're convinced or not

I am not convinced and neither should anyone else be either. Mainly because you are 100% wrong. No if ands or buts about it, you are wrong.

If the likelihood of someone using a long-gun to kill someone in a domestic dispute is higher than long-gun homicides in general, then perhaps it's useful for the cops, judges, and prosecutors to know about these things.

That is a big if considering there is no evidence to support the conjecture. Pretty safe for the police to assume the worst with or without prior knowledge....and to assume there is a knife...the weapon of choice with spouse killers.

[cybercoma]

So for Ontario stabbing is higher. It's not the same in the province that I'm familiar with and that's the extent to which I can comment on it.

Nonetheless, 1 in 3 are shot and how many of those are long-guns?

[TimG]

Nonetheless, 1 in 3 are shot and how many of those are long-guns?

Perhaps we should be registering knives.