Shwa Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Conservatives are literate when it comes to economic issues. The rest are quite happy to continue approving of social programs that keep them and their offspring on the government teat, and do nothing for long term economic growth. BWAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Frickin hilarious capricorn, you out do even yourself sometimes. Thanks for the laughter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm not defending the media. I'm saying it's not a "liberal" media. How is that a "defense"? It's just a fact. No, it's not fact. You just wish it were. Recall treatment of Preston Manning, Stockwell Day, Stephen Harper.... by CBC for example. And we pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Harper was wrong to open his yap about a one-on-one with Ignatieff. What that would do is give Ignatieff legitimacy in the minds of viewers and put Ignatieff on a equal footing with Harper as the front runner. Well fact is that's the reality of it. People are deluding themselves if they think we will ever have a PM that is not of the CPC or the LPC. The other parties aren't choices for PM, Bloc doesn't even run canidates in all ridings yet they get a seat at the table. Granted I wouldn't want it any other way as I find Duceppe to be a never ending sources of entertainment. He's quite savvy, witty, and probably the strongest leader of the big four. I don't see why Harper would decline this, it just looks like poor form for him. If people start buying this "leader of the coalition" tripe that I will lose a great deal of respect for my fellow Canadians. Be that as it may who wouldn't be interested in a classic Mulroney/Turner style debate? I was quite young at the time but I still remember the whole thing and commentary that followed, criticizing Turner's posture and how he didn't appear to be relaxed. Mulroney was declared the winner of the debate by the commentators and later the electorate. I don't think this gives the impression at all that these are the only two choices, even though to anyone who is paying attention these are the only two choices. If they had this debate on top of the all leaders debate I think it would just add a whole new layer. As it stands Harper come off as looking incredibly weak as a result of declining this debate. I think his real fear is the CPC plan is extremely long term based, and he's in a position now where he has to stand on his record and play the stay the course card. That's a tough sell when the other guy is promising to ramp up spending. Even still, I feel it was a poor judgement call on team harper's part. I quite agree. Conservatives are literate when it comes to economic issues. The rest are quite happy to continue approving of social programs that keep them and their offspring on the government teat, and do nothing for long term economic growth. Hrmmm I beg to differ, many folks, such as myself identify themselves as liberal for social issues, one area the conservatives have been found wanting. If they'd take the live and let live approach, I'd likely support them. As it stands there have been too many instances where they had a chance to shine and failed on social issues. Some might think it small but the whole backing out of funding for Diversite, the CPC's avid opposition to Gay marriage and a number of other social issues has kept me from voting for them. Economic I have no issues with them but the same holds true of the LPC. I can count on the fact that the LPC will promise universal child care and underdeliver. All I can count on the CPC for is, utilizing parliamentary procedures to skirt democracy, insult my intelligence by insisting a coalition exists that does not, and spread misinformation to the nation at large as to how our democracy works in the interest of obtaining and maintaining power. As far as I can see there is little difference between the CPC and LPC, both are truly corrupt, but at least the LPC's didn't try and stop me from marrying who I wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 That's just the reality of it. Really? Are we really talking about the same thing? What's the point of democracy at all, then? Because democratic forms make us feel good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 No, it's not fact. You just wish it were. Recall treatment of Preston Manning, Stockwell Day, Stephen Harper.... by CBC for example. And we pay for it. Someone told you the media was liberal, and you believe them...and you think that constitutes proof. It takes a serious, expansive, institutional analysis to discover what might be the biases, and in which direction(s) they lay. Not some vague sniping about the CBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 It was turned down I believe, because if harper were to legitimately have a debate of substance with ignatieff, he would look like a jerk, because according to the centre left harper's policies are heartless. Even though corporate tax cuts are good for the economy and create jobs, it is a lot harder sell to a largely economic illeterate base vs. Say a billion dollar daycare and billion dollar learning passports. sounds like kim campbell's excuse with her "the issues are to complex to be explained during a election campaign"....and for the largely economic illiterate, day care and education do indeed create jobs and economic growth...I'm sure harper would love to rip ignatieff in two about the economy. Given that ignatieff is a far better public speaker than harper, and harper having a cold image it would be better to take a pass. For harper to "win" the debate, he'd piss off the electorate.Its always harder to sell a policy where there is a no involved, vs. A yes policy. For example the gst tax cuts (yes I will cut the gst vs no I won't cut it for xyz reason) harper is an intellectual lightweight...ignetieff called his bluff to debate one on one and harper chickened out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 sounds like kim campbell's excuse with her "the issues are to complex to be explained during a election campaign"....and for the largely economic illiterate, day care and education do indeed create jobs and economic growth... harper is an intellectual lightweight...ignetieff called his bluff to debate one on one and harper chickened out... Govt jobs aren't "real" jobs. The corporate tax cuts are a far better method to create jobs with. When martin did it he was a genius, when harper does it he's evil. Harper is one of the craftiest people in ottawa, he is a horrible communicator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 harper is an intellectual lightweight...ignetieff called his bluff to debate one on one and harper chickened out... According to CBC Polls and federal elections are different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 According to section 1.4.11 of the Bloc Quebecois platform:“Dans l’éventualité d’un P arlement sans majorité parlementaire, le Bloc Québécois se réserve la possibilité de soutenir une coalition de partis politiques, et ce, dans la mesure où le respect des valeurs québécoises est garanti.” “In the event of a Parliament with no majority, the Bloc Québécois reserves the sovereign duty and absolute right to extract billions of newfound extra dollars for Quebec at the expense of Canadian taxpayers, and to suck the soul out of our nation while humiliating Michael Ignatieff every day (p. 39) There, I fixed that translation for you. I don't think Harper would turn down a one-on-one debate with Ignatieff if it was clear that little buntoss was replacing the Harper vs The Coalition one that is already approved by all(except Ms May). Harper is just trying to save travel expenses for Layton and Duceppe, no need for them to show up when Iggy is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Govt jobs aren't "real" jobs. Tell that to the people who have those jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Govt jobs aren't "real" jobs. The corporate tax cuts are a far better method to create jobs with. When martin did it he was a genius, when harper does it he's evil. Harper is one of the craftiest people in ottawa, he is a horrible communicator. hmmm i thought you were an expert on economics, I confess I'm not but I'm apparently better versed in the benefits of expanded child care and a more educated population... daycares free up parents to re enter the work force, expanded daycares allow single mothers who could not otherwise do so an opportunity to get off of social assistance, working parents have higher incomes/spend more thereby generate more employment/and pay more taxes...all of these generate MORE jobs... more post graduate students do the same as well as they become employers themselves(more jobs), collect fewer social benefits/ have higher incomes on average(more taxes), purchase more with their more secure jobs(more sales/jobs), make canada more competitive in the global market(more jobs)...again MORE jobs... it's not the bricklayers and plumbers of the world who create jobs it's the people with the cash who hire them... Edited March 31, 2011 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Tell that to the people who have those jobs. and watch how fast our country comes to a standstill without them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 hmmm i thought you were an expert on economics, I confess I'm not but I'm apparently better versed in the benefits of expanded child care and a more educated population... daycares free up parents to re enter the work force, expanded daycares allow single mothers who could not otherwise do so an opportunity to get off of social assistance, working parents have higher incomes/spend more thereby generate more employment/and pay more taxes...all of these generate MORE jobs... more post graduate students do the same as well as they become employers themselves(more jobs), collect fewer social benefits/ have higher incomes on average(more taxes), purchase more with their more secure jobs(more sales/jobs), make canada more competitive in the global market(more jobs)...again MORE jobs... it's not the bricklayers and plumbers of the world who create jobs it's the people with the cash who hire them... And what is so wrong with a person setting up a daycare out of their house or buying/renting a building. Or with providing those big corporations tax incentives to have daycare set up at the workplace. That can already be done or is being done. What's going on is a trend in most developed worlds to cut corporate tax rates. Obama is planning on doing it as well. He tried the tax and spend approach and couldn't create more jobs. Here is an intersting tidbit to low corporate taxes. Ireland which has some of the lowest corporate taxes in the world refused to touch their tax rate. Even after an election that sent the old ruling party into oblivion they did not touch the tax rate, instead the population took the draconian cuts like a champ. Why? Low taxes brought prosperity once, it will bring it again. Germany and france were tripping over themselves to bail ireland out thinking they could squeeze higher taxes as part of the bailout package but ireland told them to pound sand. As for the uni grads. That education is only good when there are jobs to be had. A big problem in egypt was university grads who could not get a job even though they had all the education in the world. That is my concern, education inflation, to have people stuck in school for 8 years to make 50k because every tom dick and harry has a four year degree, is hard on the economy by itself because of the cost to get that education. If given the choice b/w a uni grad and someone with a grade 12 who can run heavy equipment, the uni grad doesn't get the job because the other one has betteR skills. As you put it yourself if there's no cash there's no jobs. Those bricklayers and plumbers often times start up their own companies and depending on reputation, amt of work, and skill can be quite flush with cash and often employ "gnomes" to make their work go faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 They could have tried sending a letter to the GG to look at them as an option, like Harper did with his coalition. That letter was not a coalition agreement. Drop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 That letter was not a coalition agreement. Drop it. What other option was there for the signatories of the "non-coalition" letter ? There was no other option available. That the letter did not say coalition is moot. "Mr JBG, this is Revenue Canada calling. Please bring all your tax statements for the past 7 years to our office tomorrow, along with all receipts and other statements of income. We want to have a good hard look at all of your stuff." "Oh...ok, am I being subjected to a Tax Audit ?" "Tax Audit? Oh I didnt say that now did I ? No no Sir, we just want all the info as mentioned so we can talk to you about it" Now....what would you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 And what is so wrong with a person setting up a daycare out of their house or buying/renting a building. Or with providing those big corporations tax incentives to have daycare set up at the workplace. That can already be done or is being done. What's going on is a trend in most developed worlds to cut corporate tax rates. Obama is planning on doing it as well. He tried the tax and spend approach and couldn't create more jobs. Here is an intersting tidbit to low corporate taxes. Ireland which has some of the lowest corporate taxes in the world refused to touch their tax rate. Even after an election that sent the old ruling party into oblivion they did not touch the tax rate, instead the population took the draconian cuts like a champ. Why? Low taxes brought prosperity once, it will bring it again. Germany and france were tripping over themselves to bail ireland out thinking they could squeeze higher taxes as part of the bailout package but ireland told them to pound sand. As for the uni grads. That education is only good when there are jobs to be had. A big problem in egypt was university grads who could not get a job even though they had all the education in the world. That is my concern, education inflation, to have people stuck in school for 8 years to make 50k because every tom dick and harry has a four year degree, is hard on the economy by itself because of the cost to get that education. If given the choice b/w a uni grad and someone with a grade 12 who can run heavy equipment, the uni grad doesn't get the job because the other one has betteR skills. As you put it yourself if there's no cash there's no jobs. Those bricklayers and plumbers often times start up their own companies and depending on reputation, amt of work, and skill can be quite flush with cash and often employ "gnomes" to make their work go faster. your grasp of economics is staggering...stupider is better, who would've thought that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 That letter was not a coalition agreement. Drop it. Right. It was just three parties getting together and having a formal arrangement to take power. I understand how you CPCers would see that as totally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 The debate is a non-issue. The networks don't want to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 The debate is a non-issue. The networks don't want to do it. No, the issue is Harper is a snivelling coward. He bluffed and Ignatieff called it and now he's backing out with his tail between his legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I can't imagine why Harper made the offer in the first place. There's nothing for him to gain by debating Ignatieff 1-on-1. Giving Ignatieff another opportunity to be on TV doesn't do anything for Harper. If it was Harper who was trailing in the polls, I bet he'd be a lot more interested in the idea, and Ignatieff not so much. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 "Tax Audit? Oh I didnt say that now did I ? No no Sir, we just want all the info as mentioned so we can talk to you about it"Now....what would you think? How about the CPC didn't want the LPC to be able to use back-to-back elections to persuade Canadians that they'd better not vote another minority government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 When does Harper debate Layton one on one? Seriously why does Ignatieff think he is better then anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 When does Harper debate Layton one on one? Seriously why does Ignatieff think he is better then anyone else? When Layton has the chance to become PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 When Layton has the chance to become PM. What counts is that Mr. Layton is running for the prime ministership. I believe he means it just, as Mr. Ignatieff believes he has a shot at the big chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I'm quite alarmed by the amount of disdain shown for elections and working together with other political parties (coalitions) by the Stephen Harper Party of Canada. He's also known for the tight leash he has on his caucus (that could be misconstrued in spoken conversation, I'm sure). I think Harper fancies himself a benevolent dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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