Non-black students may boycott Africentric school, students warn

[Shwa]

Interesting story from the Star that reports on the continuation of the concept of the 'Africentric' school into Oakwood Collegiate.

Non-black students may boycott Africentric school, students warn

Senior Toronto school board staff scrambled to do damage control Monday at Oakwood, where student panic over a proposal to open an Africentric alternative high school in part of the building has sparked a Facebook petition with some 320 names as well as brief rumours of a wildcat student strike.

“I'm proud of our students for raising their voices — they should, it's their school — but an Africentric school is just one way to address a 40 per cent dropout rate (among black students),” said Jim Spyropoulos, the board's superintendent of inclusive schools, who visited Oakwood to field questions from concerned students and staff.

“Not that students are racist, but some parents could stop sending their kids because they could see it as potentially dangerous, which could reduce the enrolment of the school. The idea of segregation is not something Canadians like; we're a mosaic of various cultures.”

Is this a sort of benevolent segregation?

I am not convinced that birds-of-a-feather concept is the ideal way to get students in a target visible minority group to improve their group school results. There is nothing stopping any culture group from forming their own private schools, but will benevolent segregation (if Ic an call it that) be the answer?

[Bonam]

There is nothing stopping any culture group from forming their own private schools, but will benevolent segregation (if Ic an call it that) be the answer?

No, it is not the answer. It is obviously a bad idea on the face of it. Black students will not benefit from going to a school with only other black students, where they don't get to interact with kids of other races. Similarly, white and Asian students will be used to not seeing any (or as many) blacks at the schools they go to (which will have been drained of blacks to populate the "africentric" schools) and will thus be conditioned to not expect to see any blacks in the workplace either. Segregation may be "benevolent" in intent but the result can only be to make people of the various races that are to be segregated less familiar with each other, less used to interacting with each other, and thus contribute to more tension and discrimination, rather than ameliorating any situation.

[Michael Hardner]

Toronto created an Afrocentric school in 2009. How did that affect dropout rates ?

I can't find any information on that. Why doesn't anybody care ? The debate sure was hot when the school was to be opened, and now that it's time to follow up I don't see any data.

[Shwa]

Toronto created an Afrocentric school in 2009. How did that affect dropout rates ?

I can't find any information on that. Why doesn't anybody care ? The debate sure was hot when the school was to be opened, and now that it's time to follow up I don't see any data.

It was an Afrocentric grade school which has been in the news a-plenty. This is the high school version.

[Jack Weber]

It was an Afrocentric grade school which has been in the news a-plenty. This is the high school version.

Was'nt the reason for the "Little Rock 9" to integrate high schools many years ago??

Now we have some who would wish to turn back that clock....

[Shwa]

More interesting-ness:

Oakwood Collegiate may not house Africentric school after all, board says

About the school specifically...

“The question of possible sites for the program is premature and it will be made clear that no suggestions as to proposed site(s) will go forward unless or until after the board has had an opportunity to determine what it believes should be done,” wrote Chris Spence in an email dated Tuesday.

The board will go ahead with a community meeting scheduled for Tuesday night, “since it has been publicized and the community is now expecting to discuss this proposal,” Spence wrote. “I will make it clear to the Oakwood community, however, that no decisions will be made before at least one further community meeting.”

The board caused an uproar among parents and students at Oakwood after learning through media reports that the school was being considered to house a black-focused alternative high school, as a “school within a school,” to open this fall. Tuesday night was the first — and hastily scheduled — public meeting at the school, which prides itself on its cultural diversity.

I wonder if the "media reports" was the Star story this morning or some reporter going around the neighbourhood asking, "Hey, did you hear...?"

[Shwa]

And the beat goes on...

Plan for Africentric high school put on hold amid packed and angry protest

Amid howls of protest Tuesday night from nearly 400 Oakwood Collegiate students, staff and parents angry at an Africentric high school, trustee Maria Rodrigues says she will recommend the proposal be put on hold until the public has more say...

However most of the audience opposed the idea of an alternative program under Oakwood’s roof, calling it segregation and warning it would divide a school that is already highly diverse. Emotions have run so high since media reports of the proposal last weekend, that at least six police officers attended the meeting as a precaution after the school received several email threats Tuesday.

Some of the video of this get together were on the news last night and there were quite a few impassioned pleas against the idea. I like this nugget:

Student Tyler Stewart drew cheers when he asked board officials at the meeting: “Why can’t you just offer Africentric courses in history and literature instead of changing the whole feel of the school?”

Huh. Offer Africentric courses? Damned teenaged radicals with their radical ideas!

[Oleg Bach]

Why would libeals push their oh so holy multicultural agenda then with the left hand create further divisions between whites and blacks...Already they have created with their stupid welfare housing projects a seperate faction of youth that are cowardly - dis-honourable - and like to shoot each other...Nothing more dumb than some black person dressed in African robe going on about black identity...each human being should be judged not on their genetic origins but on the context of their character....I believe that Martin Luther King said something similar...now KING was a man that knew that freedom and dignity begin in the heart of the individual not in some stupid collective of a bunch of nerds looking for the historic value of Canada's first black doctor.

[Wild Bill]

Fans of the comic strip Doonesbury might recall one segment written in the 80's, after Doonesbury had returned after a lapse from the early 70's.

The panels open with a university dean confronted with a student demonstration. He's commenting to his aide "Back in the 60's I marched with Dr. King for his rainbow coalition. Now, near as I can figure it, they want their OWN fountains!"

Sadly, there was a lot of truth there.

[Shwa]

More consultation needed on Africentric school, director says

A proposal for a black-focused high school has been put on hold until more community consultation can be held, says Toronto school board education director Chris Spence.

He withdrew a staff report at the start of a committee meeting Wednesday, citing the outcry from parents, staff and students at Oakwood Collegiate, which had been selected as the site.

“I felt that what had happened over the past couple of days, that we needed some more time with the report,” Spence said, addressing criticism that the community had not been consulted.

When asked if Oakwood would still be the site, he called such talk “premature”.

Spence also said it would be “very difficult” to open an Africentric school in time for this fall.

Interesting and honourable reversal. Chris Spence's face has been on TV often enough over the past few days.

The best part of this is that the community itself made the decision - an inclusive community that shows that participation in the process works and that grassroots can change bureaucratic directions.

Hopefully this isn't some delaying tactic by the Board, but a genuine effort to review the concept entirely.

But don't hold your breath on that...

[Michael Hardner]

More consultation needed on Africentric school, director says

Interesting and honourable reversal. Chris Spence's face has been on TV often enough over the past few days.

The best part of this is that the community itself made the decision - an inclusive community that shows that participation in the process works and that grassroots can change bureaucratic directions.

Hopefully this isn't some delaying tactic by the Board, but a genuine effort to review the concept entirely.

But don't hold your breath on that...

Although you're correct - they did make a huge mistake in trying to fast-track this without enough consultation, which is a bush league mistake.

[Oleg Bach]

Intelligent blacks do not want to be segregated or seperated from main stream society. Those of limited intelligence might want a place of their own to hide....maybe it is simply a question of safety for the weak that can no thrive in an uncivilized world? Safety in numbers perhaps? Maybe we should have a seperate school system for the rich? Maybe a seperate system for the Jews? Maybe a seperate system for the Muslims and the Christians...Maybe a seperate system for gays? WAIT ! We have all that. This melting pot called mulit-culturalism seems to not be boiling. I spoke to a Muslim recently and he said "Canada has no culture" _ My Korean friend also said "There is no class in Canada" - what he meant was that we are all dogs.

Black studends should not learn more about being black - they should learn how to forget.

[Bob]

Interesting story from the Star that reports on the continuation of the concept of the 'Africentric' school into Oakwood Collegiate.

Non-black students may boycott Africentric school, students warn

Is this a sort of benevolent segregation?

I am not convinced that birds-of-a-feather concept is the ideal way to get students in a target visible minority group to improve their group school results. There is nothing stopping any culture group from forming their own private schools, but will benevolent segregation (if Ic an call it that) be the answer?

I think it has little to nothing to do with performance. Public schools are filled with minority children who perform well. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to the idea on other grounds, though. If there are enough black families out there that want a more "afrocentric" (I am not sure exactly what that means, to be honest) education for their children, all the power to them. I'm not sure about giving them public funding, though... at least not more money than these kids would otherwise be receiving with some honest and fair math - which is very difficult to do, given that many public educational expenses aren't entirely made (rightfully so) on the basis of volume of students.

[Bob]

No, it is not the answer. It is obviously a bad idea on the face of it. Black students will not benefit from going to a school with only other black students, where they don't get to interact with kids of other races. Similarly, white and Asian students will be used to not seeing any (or as many) blacks at the schools they go to (which will have been drained of blacks to populate the "africentric" schools) and will thus be conditioned to not expect to see any blacks in the workplace either. Segregation may be "benevolent" in intent but the result can only be to make people of the various races that are to be segregated less familiar with each other, less used to interacting with each other, and thus contribute to more tension and discrimination, rather than ameliorating any situation.

I completely disagree. Children don't NEED to go to schools with diversity for any purpose. If they do go to mixed schools, fine. If they don't, that's also fine. I'm also unsure that going to more diverse schools make someone less likely to be unjustifiably prejudiced/racist. Lastly, children get socialized outside of school, as well. Your perspective would also oppose home-schooling and private schooling for specific minorities/ethnic/religious groups.

[Bob]

Intelligent blacks do not want to be segregated or seperated from main stream society. Those of limited intelligence might want a place of their own to hide....maybe it is simply a question of safety for the weak that can no thrive in an uncivilized world? Safety in numbers perhaps? Maybe we should have a seperate school system for the rich? Maybe a seperate system for the Jews? Maybe a seperate system for the Muslims and the Christians...Maybe a seperate system for gays? WAIT ! We have all that. This melting pot called mulit-culturalism seems to not be boiling. I spoke to a Muslim recently and he said "Canada has no culture" _ My Korean friend also said "There is no class in Canada" - what he meant was that we are all dogs.

Black studends should not learn more about being black - they should learn how to forget.

There's a big difference between going to a special-interest school and being "segregated from mainstream society". Would you say the same about kids going to private schools or kids going to exclusive extra-curricular activities? If they want to do it, let them do it. I'd just hope they'd be careful with public funding, and by "careful", I mean perhaps giving them nothing and letting them fund their special desires on their own.

[Oleg Bach]

There's a big difference between going to a special-interest school and being "segregated from mainstream society". Would you say the same about kids going to private schools or kids going to exclusive extra-curricular activities? If they want to do it, let them do it. I'd just hope they'd be careful with public funding, and by "careful", I mean perhaps giving them nothing and letting them fund their special desires on their own.

If you like anyone else has a dream or "desires"...then like all dreams they are personal and individual...I just don't like the idea of more collectification of more groups. The more they group up the more we start acting like insects...we must be careful not to create more incorporations that become mindless and cruel buracracies. If a white kid or a black kid have a dream...then that dream should reside in the private sphere. No one should help an individual to achieve their dream..no one helped me...I guess because I was never part of any special group...always the lone wolf.

[Rue]

..Maybe we should have a seperate school system for the rich? Maybe a seperate system for the Jews? Maybe a seperate system for the Muslims and the Christians...Maybe a seperate system for gays? WAIT ! We have all that.

Black studends should not learn more about being black - they should learn how to forget.

Oh Oleg. My esteemed colleague may I respectfully point out that yes there are PRIVATE schools for Jews, Muslims, Christians, but they are not publically funded. Therein lies the huge difference for me.

If black people want to send their children to a private school they pay for that is Afro centre, all power to them.

Where I object is when they ask the government to pay for it.

My problem is using a public school to cater to ANY one group. I am dead against the double standard of using public money for funding CATHOLIC schools the same reason I am against using public money to fund Jewish or Muslim or any other religious or culture schools.

You want cultureor specific religion-pay for it yourself or do it as an after school optional religious.cultural program or better still develop your communities and get your community members to offer the programs and stop asking the government to do all these things.

Therein lies my problem expecting the government to single out and provide favours for specific groups when these groups should be doing it on their own.

Now that said, I am a bit mixed on this issue. I have great sympathy and compassion for gay students who started a few alternative schools to try address their being beaten up and harassed and providing them safe places to go to school.

I also have great sympathy for aboriginal students who like the gays created alternative schools to help them stay in school and not drop out.

In both cases there has been strong precedent that they have worked in positive ways to help high risk students from dropping out of school.

So now of course certain blacks say, we want the same. Where this will end I do not know. Who is next? It could go on forever. At last count there were over 80 different ethnic groups and 124 languages spoken in the GTA and it continues to grow.

I am trying to be open minded about this and acknowledge it started off with positive intentions and addressed specific needs but now its threatening to get out of control and we should not be suprised.

For me it's a classic example of why schools need to remain neutral. One you open the door to cater to one group's needs, all groups demand the same treatment and why do we allow it for only a few and who determines who those few should be-a handful of angry people who yell the loudest-because at this point that is what the school board does-cater to the parents that prove to be the rudest and loudest.

I personally being a minority share in common what all minorities have learned in this counrty regardless of our skin colour or language or ethnicity or religion and that is-discrimination is a fact of life and trying to hide from it is not the solution-the solution is to meet it head on and deal with it head on-sheltering ourselves in ghettoes from it won't make it go away or help us-it simply postpones the inevitable life lessons that must be dealt with sooner or later.

To me all public schools should be neutral and not favour any one group but teach respect for all.

Growing up as one of a few Jews in a Christian anti-semitic school, yah I fought a lot and experienced a lot of b.s. So did others of many groups. All of us have experienced it. That adversity helped us build our characters and self respect. I was no victim. I never allowed myself to feel like I was a victim and I cringe when I hear loud mouth angry parents screaming how society is unfair to them and victimizes them. To me that is self-defeating.

All that said, the issue of treatment of aboriginal peoples in Canadian schools I think is a special category and exception to the above for specific legal reasons and past treatment of aboriginals inflicted by the Canadian government and so I do not include them in all my above comments. There are certain legal issues that still have to be resolved with the aboriginal peoples and their communities of which education is one component and can not be considered part of the above because of outstanding legal compensation claims and violations that have to be addressed.

I am also a bit reluctant to say shut the few gay schools because the few there are were only meant to be limited and came about out of direct necessity due to life threatening and physically violent situations.

However I realize that logically, once you favour one group or two, all want the same treatment and it creates an unfair double standard.

I also think it could be argued that unlike gays, blacks are dropping out not because of direct violence against them, i.e., physical attacks and beatings.

In the case of CERTAIN blacks, not all, their issues of dropping out and failure like ALL OTHER minorities can be traced to lack of employment, solid families, solid community ties,lack of stable academic and character role models, sufficient recreational facilities-things token schools will not and can not address.

At best all an Africancentric school is appease a small group of screamers.

It does not address real issues it simply appeases or placates parents who teach their children that playing victim and demanding special treatment and blaming society is the way to get things done.

I also think the majority of people of minority groups including most blacks like me will have nothing to do with this b.s. tokenism. We know our kids will have to try and be twice as good. So that is the challenge.We don't hide from it. We face it with them. We do not teach our children they need special treatment.

The tough issues like poverty, unemployment, lack of family structure, lack of community, let's deal with those issues and stop pretending throwing a token school in Oakville is the panacea for them. Its not.

You want kids to stay in school-give them two strong responsible parents who take a strong role in their life assuring they do their homework and stay out of trouble.

Create community sites for kids to do their homework, learn different cultures and therefore tolerance, engage in group sports and activities so they learn to interact with people of different groups.

These measures no one wants to do. No one wants to commit to this because its hard work. Its easier to demand the government do it then do it ourselves at the grass roots level through ngo's and volunteer groups.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Rue

[Oleg Bach]

A `token bone to a barking dog`- nothing wrong with that. Might even have a token black Prime Minister some day - The Americans did it - so can we -------------Yes we can!

[charter.rights]

Oh Oleg. My esteemed colleague may I respectfully point out that yes there are PRIVATE schools for Jews, Muslims, Christians, but they are not publically funded. Therein lies the huge difference for me.

If black people want to send their children to a private school they pay for that is Afro centre, all power to them.

Where I object is when they ask the government to pay for it.

My problem is using a public school to cater to ANY one group. I am dead against the double standard of using public money for funding CATHOLIC schools the same reason I am against using public money to fund Jewish or Muslim or any other religious or culture schools.

You want cultureor specific religion-pay for it yourself or do it as an after school optional religious.cultural program or better still develop your communities and get your community members to offer the programs and stop asking the government to do all these things.

Therein lies my problem expecting the government to single out and provide favours for specific groups when these groups should be doing it on their own.

Now that said, I am a bit mixed on this issue. I have great sympathy and compassion for gay students who started a few alternative schools to try address their being beaten up and harassed and providing them safe places to go to school.

I also have great sympathy for aboriginal students who like the gays created alternative schools to help them stay in school and not drop out.

In both cases there has been strong precedent that they have worked in positive ways to help high risk students from dropping out of school.

So now of course certain blacks say, we want the same. Where this will end I do not know. Who is next? It could go on forever. At last count there were over 80 different ethnic groups and 124 languages spoken in the GTA and it continues to grow.

I am trying to be open minded about this and acknowledge it started off with positive intentions and addressed specific needs but now its threatening to get out of control and we should not be suprised.

For me it's a classic example of why schools need to remain neutral. One you open the door to cater to one group's needs, all groups demand the same treatment and why do we allow it for only a few and who determines who those few should be-a handful of angry people who yell the loudest-because at this point that is what the school board does-cater to the parents that prove to be the rudest and loudest.

I personally being a minority share in common what all minorities have learned in this counrty regardless of our skin colour or language or ethnicity or religion and that is-discrimination is a fact of life and trying to hide from it is not the solution-the solution is to meet it head on and deal with it head on-sheltering ourselves in ghettoes from it won't make it go away or help us-it simply postpones the inevitable life lessons that must be dealt with sooner or later.

To me all public schools should be neutral and not favour any one group but teach respect for all.

Growing up as one of a few Jews in a Christian anti-semitic school, yah I fought a lot and experienced a lot of b.s. So did others of many groups. All of us have experienced it. That adversity helped us build our characters and self respect. I was no victim. I never allowed myself to feel like I was a victim and I cringe when I hear loud mouth angry parents screaming how society is unfair to them and victimizes them. To me that is self-defeating.

All that said, the issue of treatment of aboriginal peoples in Canadian schools I think is a special category and exception to the above for specific legal reasons and past treatment of aboriginals inflicted by the Canadian government and so I do not include them in all my above comments. There are certain legal issues that still have to be resolved with the aboriginal peoples and their communities of which education is one component and can not be considered part of the above because of outstanding legal compensation claims and violations that have to be addressed.

I am also a bit reluctant to say shut the few gay schools because the few there are were only meant to be limited and came about out of direct necessity due to life threatening and physically violent situations.

However I realize that logically, once you favour one group or two, all want the same treatment and it creates an unfair double standard.

I also think it could be argued that unlike gays, blacks are dropping out not because of direct violence against them, i.e., physical attacks and beatings.

In the case of CERTAIN blacks, not all, their issues of dropping out and failure like ALL OTHER minorities can be traced to lack of employment, solid families, solid community ties,lack of stable academic and character role models, sufficient recreational facilities-things token schools will not and can not address.

At best all an Africancentric school is appease a small group of screamers.

It does not address real issues it simply appeases or placates parents who teach their children that playing victim and demanding special treatment and blaming society is the way to get things done.

I also think the majority of people of minority groups including most blacks like me will have nothing to do with this b.s. tokenism. We know our kids will have to try and be twice as good. So that is the challenge.We don't hide from it. We face it with them. We do not teach our children they need special treatment.

The tough issues like poverty, unemployment, lack of family structure, lack of community, let's deal with those issues and stop pretending throwing a token school in Oakville is the panacea for them. Its not.

You want kids to stay in school-give them two strong responsible parents who take a strong role in their life assuring they do their homework and stay out of trouble.

Create community sites for kids to do their homework, learn different cultures and therefore tolerance, engage in group sports and activities so they learn to interact with people of different groups.

These measures no one wants to do. No one wants to commit to this because its hard work. Its easier to demand the government do it then do it ourselves at the grass roots level through ngo's and volunteer groups.

Oh Rue, all that brain activity wasted.....

Of course you missed the point. It isn't black students asking for a special school. It is the school board trying to find a better way at reaching them.

Statistically according to the provincial education standard testing, the current teaching methods only reach about 30% of the kids. The rest either are too smart for the teachers or are at risk of dropping out. Rote methods do not work with most the students, so looking for something different to address a higher rate of failure is a noble thought. However, they didn't ask anyone and the school board was doing this on their own....then quickly retracted it.....

I agree that:

"To me all public schools should be neutral and not favour any one group but teach respect for all. "

Since the school system has historically been catering to predominantly Caucasian students perhaps that curriculum should make more allowances for cultural input from other non-Caucasian sources and change the methods and curriculum to suit more of the majority of students. No doubt you will agree, given your stance against special treatment.

Edited April 7, 2011 by charter.rights

[Bob]

How does a school system "cater to Caucasian students"? I didn't know Caucasians were a cohesive group that could be catered to educationally.

[charter.rights]

How does a school system "cater to Caucasian students"? I didn't know Caucasians were a cohesive group that could be catered to educationally.

Canadian institutions have cater to Christian Caucasians for centuries. Even history has excluded non-Caucasians as being recognized as contributing to the formation and development of Canada. Caucasian history for the most part has dominated school curriculum for ages and it is only recently that accurate (read non-Caucasian) cultural information about other groups in Canada has begun to emerge.

[H10]

No, it is not the answer. It is obviously a bad idea on the face of it. Black students will not benefit from going to a school with only other black students, where they don't get to interact with kids of other races. Similarly, white and Asian students will be used to not seeing any (or as many) blacks at the schools they go to (which will have been drained of blacks to populate the "africentric" schools) and will thus be conditioned to not expect to see any blacks in the workplace either. Segregation may be "benevolent" in intent but the result can only be to make people of the various races that are to be segregated less familiar with each other, less used to interacting with each other, and thus contribute to more tension and discrimination, rather than ameliorating any situation.

"“Not that students are racist, but some parents could stop sending their kids because they could see it as potentially dangerous, which could reduce the enrolment of the school. The idea of segregation is not something Canadians like; we're a mosaic of various cultures.”"

OH THE IRONY.

So students who aren't black are clearly avoiding black students, but black students will not benefit from going to a school devoid of people so racist that they'd rather boycott a school than to go with a black student. It is quiet clear what is going on here. Most whites and Asians are already conditioned to not see any blacks in the workplace, these groups don't work together, how many blacks do you see working in T&T, and how many blacks do you see working in white dominated areas? Very few.

The truth is most non-blacks would rather avoid blacks. And that is fine. No one is even asking or expecting them to change. Blacks simply want their own school system where they don't have to face constant racism from other students, teachers and a white power school system complex all of whom deny that this racism even exist.

[H10]

Was'nt the reason for the "Little Rock 9" to integrate high schools many years ago??

Now we have some who would wish to turn back that clock....

I didn't know they had africentric schools back then.

And the beat goes on...

Plan for Africentric high school put on hold amid packed and angry protest

Some of the video of this get together were on the news last night and there were quite a few impassioned pleas against the idea. I like this nugget:

Huh. Offer Africentric courses? Damned teenaged radicals with their radical ideas!

Africentric courses cannot replace an africentric school program. You need africentric trained teachers and overall curriculm. Its like the difference between french immersion and taking 1 french course. Big difference.

Why would libeals push their oh so holy multicultural agenda then with the left hand create further divisions between whites and blacks...Already they have created with their stupid welfare housing projects a seperate faction of youth that are cowardly - dis-honourable - and like to shoot each other...Nothing more dumb than some black person dressed in African robe going on about black identity...each human being should be judged not on their genetic origins but on the context of their character....I believe that Martin Luther King said something similar...now KING was a man that knew that freedom and dignity begin in the heart of the individual not in some stupid collective of a bunch of nerds looking for the historic value of Canada's first black doctor.

Further divisions? You consider black culture and identity dumb... and stereotype them as " like to shoot each other". Then turn around and say we should all be judged on our character. Isn't it clear that there is already a huge gap between the cultures? The current school system was made for white people, it doesn't suit black students.

As for MLK, did you even know anything about the man, here are his comments on school integration

"'I favor integration on buses and in all areas of public accommodation and travel. I am for equality. However, I think integration in our public schools is different. In that setting, you are dealing with one of the most important assets of an individual-the mind. White people view black people as inferior. A large percentage of them have a very low opinion of our race. People with such a low view of the black race cannot be given free reign and put in charge of the intellectual care and development of our boys and girls.’"

King was right then, and it seems by your comments, not much has changed, most whites continue to hold low opinions of black people and its not in their best interest to have such people have free reign over black children who are already vulnerable.

Intelligent blacks do not want to be segregated or seperated from main stream society. Those of limited intelligence might want a place of their own to hide....maybe it is simply a question of safety for the weak that can no thrive in an uncivilized world? Safety in numbers perhaps? Maybe we should have a seperate school system for the rich? Maybe a seperate system for the Jews? Maybe a seperate system for the Muslims and the Christians...Maybe a seperate system for gays? WAIT ! We have all that. This melting pot called mulit-culturalism seems to not be boiling. I spoke to a Muslim recently and he said "Canada has no culture" _ My Korean friend also said "There is no class in Canada" - what he meant was that we are all dogs.

Black studends should not learn more about being black - they should learn how to forget.

So MLK was not intelligent?

And do you not know some of the best private schools in this country are religious ones run by jews, muslims and hindus?

Telling a black student to forget their identity would be like telling a jew to forget they are a jew. It is an insult really.

"The study, conducted by Ming-Te Wang and James P. Huguley of the University of Pittsburg and Harvard University respectively, found that “racial socialization”—teach ing kids about their culture and involving them in activities that promote racial pride and connection—helps to offset the discrimination and racial prejudices children face by the outside world.

Wang explains:

“Our findings challenge the notion that ‘race blindness’ is a universally ideal parenting approach, especially since previous research has shown that racially conscious parenting strategies at either extreme—either ‘race blindness’ or promoting mistrust of other races—are associated with negative outcomes for African American youth.

"They found racial pride to be the single most important factor in guarding against racial discrimination, and discovered it had a direct impact on the students’ grades, future goals, and cognitive engagement.

Despite fewer instances of multicultural and inclusive learning in school and the increased frequency in which black students are treated more harshly than their peers, Wang’s study shows that teaching kids, especially black children, to take pride in their culture is an integral part of their success.

Wang sums it up:

“Our study provides empirical evidence that the longstanding practice in the African American community of cultivating racial pride and preparing children to face racial bias in society should be considered among appropriate and beneficial practices in parenting Black children.”

"

http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/01/new-study-black-students-who-are-taught-racial-pride-do-better-in-school/

[H10]

Schools have never been neutral in Canada. We are a multicultural country. No one should be expected to forcibly assimilate. And when the majority culture denies your history is true, there is no neutral. It would be like having a "religion" or "history" class where it is neutral. When the african historians say xyz and euro historians say abc. What are you going to make neutral? For the most part, black and whites can't even agree water is wet or the sky is blue, never mind a curriculum. And black students are being beat up in high schools and threatened with death by white students wearing confederate flags calling them racial slurs all caught on camera and posted on youtube and making national news yet those students somehow aren't expelled and continue to attend class with the student. Its clear you have an anti-black slant. You can make an exception for aboriginal and gays because clearly they are discriminated against more than blacks. Telling a group of people whose ancestors were kidnapped out of their country robbed of their language, history, culture, religion and the name the mother gave them, to go learn another culture is highly offensive.

Oh Oleg. My esteemed colleague may I respectfully point out that yes there are PRIVATE schools for Jews, Muslims, Christians, but they are not publically funded. Therein lies the huge difference for me.

If black people want to send their children to a private school they pay for that is Afro centre, all power to them.

Where I object is when they ask the government to pay for it.

My problem is using a public school to cater to ANY one group. I am dead against the double standard of using public money for funding CATHOLIC schools the same reason I am against using public money to fund Jewish or Muslim or any other religious or culture schools.

You want cultureor specific religion-pay for it yourself or do it as an after school optional religious.cultural program or better still develop your communities and get your community members to offer the programs and stop asking the government to do all these things.

Therein lies my problem expecting the government to single out and provide favours for specific groups when these groups should be doing it on their own.

Now that said, I am a bit mixed on this issue. I have great sympathy and compassion for gay students who started a few alternative schools to try address their being beaten up and harassed and providing them safe places to go to school.

I also have great sympathy for aboriginal students who like the gays created alternative schools to help them stay in school and not drop out.

In both cases there has been strong precedent that they have worked in positive ways to help high risk students from dropping out of school.

So now of course certain blacks say, we want the same. Where this will end I do not know. Who is next? It could go on forever. At last count there were over 80 different ethnic groups and 124 languages spoken in the GTA and it continues to grow.


I am trying to be open minded about this and acknowledge it started off with positive intentions and addressed specific needs but now its threatening to get out of control and we should not be suprised.

For me it's a classic example of why schools need to remain neutral. One you open the door to cater to one group's needs, all groups demand the same treatment and why do we allow it for only a few and who determines who those few should be-a handful of angry people who yell the loudest-because at this point that is what the school board does-cater to the parents that prove to be the rudest and loudest.

I personally being a minority share in common what all minorities have learned in this counrty regardless of our skin colour or language or ethnicity or religion and that is-discrimination is a fact of life and trying to hide from it is not the solution-the solution is to meet it head on and deal with it head on-sheltering ourselves in ghettoes from it won't make it go away or help us-it simply postpones the inevitable life lessons that must be dealt with sooner or later.

To me all public schools should be neutral and not favour any one group but teach respect for all.


Growing up as one of a few Jews in a Christian anti-semitic school, yah I fought a lot and experienced a lot of b.s. So did others of many groups. All of us have experienced it. That adversity helped us build our characters and self respect. I was no victim. I never allowed myself to feel like I was a victim and I cringe when I hear loud mouth angry parents screaming how society is unfair to them and victimizes them. To me that is self-defeating.

All that said, the issue of treatment of aboriginal peoples in Canadian schools I think is a special category and exception to the above for specific legal reasons and past treatment of aboriginals inflicted by the Canadian government and so I do not include them in all my above comments. There are certain legal issues that still have to be resolved with the aboriginal peoples and their communities of which education is one component and can not be considered part of the above because of outstanding legal compensation claims and violations that have to be addressed.

I am also a bit reluctant to say shut the few gay schools because the few there are were only meant to be limited and came about out of direct necessity due to life threatening and physically violent situations.

However I realize that logically, once you favour one group or two, all want the same treatment and it creates an unfair double standard.

I also think it could be argued that unlike gays, blacks are dropping out not because of direct violence against them, i.e., physical attacks and beatings.

In the case of CERTAIN blacks, not all, their issues of dropping out and failure like ALL OTHER minorities can be traced to lack of employment, solid families, solid community ties,lack of stable academic and character role models, sufficient recreational facilities-things token schools will not and can not address.

At best all an Africancentric school is appease a small group of screamers.

It does not address real issues it simply appeases or placates parents who teach their children that playing victim and demanding special treatment and blaming society is the way to get things done.

I also think the majority of people of minority groups including most blacks like me will have nothing to do with this b.s. tokenism. We know our kids will have to try and be twice as good. So that is the challenge.We don't hide from it. We face it with them. We do not teach our children they need special treatment.

The tough issues like poverty, unemployment, lack of family structure, lack of community, let's deal with those issues and stop pretending throwing a token school in Oakville is the panacea for them. Its not.

You want kids to stay in school-give them two strong responsible parents who take a strong role in their life assuring they do their homework and stay out of trouble.

Create community sites for kids to do their homework, learn different cultures and therefore tolerance, engage in group sports and activities so they learn to interact with people of different groups.

These measures no one wants to do. No one wants to commit to this because its hard work. Its easier to demand the government do it then do it ourselves at the grass roots level through ngo's and volunteer groups.

[guyser]

Most whites and Asians are already conditioned to not see any blacks in the workplace, these groups don't work together, how many blacks do you see working in T&T,

T&T the Chinese grocery store?

The one where maybe 1 emplyee in ten speaks English?

The one where 1 in 20 patrons speak English?

The one where they cater to the Asian market?

The one I go to all the time cuz they have great stuff?

I dunno....how many blacks do you know that speak Mandarin or Cantonese?

Oh my...thanks for that laugh of the day !