Sir Bandelot Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 The disaffected voter is a lazy, cynical, passive aggressive twit who, rightfully, should be ignored. Give them the "voice" they want on the ballot so that we can go back to ignoring these people so that we can change Canada by, you know, actually getting off our lazy asses and getting involved. That's not quite all there is to it. If this disaffection is on the rise (which it likely is...), it may mean more than simply a group of people who can be ignored. It's the rot, and it's not going away on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 So,what, exactly, is the solution? I'm not saying there is a solution, there doesn't have to be a solution, just that one doesn't have to vote for someone. Just because a person votes doesn't mean they are involved in the process. I don't agree with the OP when he calls for others to spoil their ballots but I do think it is a perfectly valid way of expressing yourself. Contrary to what msj maintains, I think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a pretty drastic action and someone who does has probably put a lot more thought into it than a lot of people who do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 As a Conservative, I want to encourage this ballot spoiling. Everyone who opposes Harper should do it, IMO. Hahaha, that'll make everyone happy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 That's not quite all there is to it. If this disaffection is on the rise (which it likely is...), it may mean more than simply a group of people who can be ignored. It's the rot, and it's not going away on its own. And there's the rub: to think that it's going to go away by spoiling one's ballot. Contrary to what msj maintains, I think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a pretty drastic action and someone who does has probably put a lot more thought into it than a lot of people who do not. If you want change so bad then fight for change. Get involved, vote, donate time and money, write letters. If you don't want change then fight for one's right to reject their ballot and believe that these people are actually contributing to a positive electoral system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 If you don't want change then fight for one's right to reject their ballot and believe that these people are actually contributing to a positive electoral system. What makes you think people who spoil their ballots don't do that? Why do you think that voting for someone you find the least objectionable is doing the country a service? Why do you have a problem with the way others might chose to express themselves in a ballot box? After all, they do take the time and make the effort to do so. This is a democracy right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 What makes you think people who spoil their ballots don't do that? Why do you think that voting for someone you find the least objectionable is doing the country a service? Why do you have a problem with the way others might chose to express themselves in a ballot box? After all, they do take the time and make the effort to do so. This is a democracy right? Voting isn't supposed to be about protests or making points, it's about picking the people that will pass our laws. Spoiling your ballot is depriving the legislative branch of your voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeGrowth Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Anyone that will be voting for one of the Ignatieff Coalition parties then by all means reject the election. I support you 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Anyone that will be voting for one of the Ignatieff Coalition parties then by all means reject the election. I support you 100%. There's few things worse in my books than someone so arrogant and so holding of contempt the democratic choice of others that they give this sort of advice. Shame on you, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Voting isn't supposed to be about protests or making points, it's about picking the people that will pass our laws. Spoiling your ballot is depriving the legislative branch of your voice. Sez you. Where do you get off telling people what they should do with their vote? I've never spoiled a ballot but won't rule out the possibility that I might in the future. I have no problem with those who chose to do so. They have in fact decided that not voting for someone they aren't comfortable with is more important and have taken the time and made the effort to say so. If spoiling your ballot is depriving the legislative branch of your voice, I guess all those who didn't vote for a winner are also depriving it of their voice. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like what they have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeGrowth Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 There's few things worse in my books than someone so arrogant and so holding of contempt the democratic choice of others that they give this sort of advice. Shame on you, sir. Ha, over reaction +1. Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet. I should have added after the sentence but I don't like smiley faces much. Anyway, I had no idea of the power I wield, I can just tell people to spoil their ballots and they'll do it?! Awesome, Conservative Victory 4 sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 What makes you think people who spoil their ballots don't do that? Why do you think that voting for someone you find the least objectionable is doing the country a service? Why do you have a problem with the way others might chose to express themselves in a ballot box? After all, they do take the time and make the effort to do so. This is a democracy right? I really doubt that someone who is working the phones or licking the envelopes (figuratively speaking) is really going to reject or spoil their ballot. I don't have a problem with people who want to reject/spoil their ballots: go ahead and waste your time. I do have a problem with people who believe that it has some kind of meaning or that it will lead to any kind of change. It won't. Change comes from being active; not from being passive. Think about it: how is anyone supposed to know what a person who rejects/spoils their ballot really wants? Sure, we all want an end to corruption and an end to childishness in question period (although the latter would likely qualify for whitewhine.com). But other than that, really, what kind of things does this person want? Who the hell knows unless they are voting for (or creating) a political party or candidate. That is, unless they are positively engaging in the process, then no one is going to take the time to try and decipher what they think is so important. These people remind me of my sister when she was a teenager: her boyfriends were just supposed to know what was wrong, and when she no longer wanted to go out with them then they should just know this by the fact that she would avoid them for days on end etc... It was childish, cowardly and passive aggressive behaviour. Even she admits that now. Exactly what those who spoil/reject their ballots want to do: hey Mister Politician, you should just know what we want and since you don't we're not going to vote for anyone. Yeah, nice mantra, that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Voting isn't supposed to be about protests or making points, it's about picking the people that will pass our laws. Spoiling your ballot is depriving the legislative branch of your voice. While I agree that spoiling/rejecting a ballot is a waste of time, in a democracy people should be free to do so and even free to not vote. If people want to deprive themselves of a voice by not partaking in the system then that's their right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Exactly what those who spoil/reject their ballots want to do: hey Mister Politician, you should just know what we want and since you don't we're not going to vote for anyone. Yeah, nice mantra, that. Maybe you read to much into it. Maybe they just aren't able to find someone they feel they can vote for. Where do you think the phrase "held my nose and voted for X" came from? Some people choose not to hold their nose but still want to engage in the process. Why do you believe they have to chose someone who is on a ballot? really doubt that someone who is working the phones or licking the envelopes (figuratively speaking) is really going to reject or spoil their ballot. Do you think only those who work phones or lick envelopes should be entitled to vote? If not, where do you get off telling them what they should do with their ballot? If people want to deprive themselves of a voice by not partaking in the system then that's their right. They are partaking in their own way. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Edited March 28, 2011 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 And there's the rub: to think that it's going to go away by spoiling one's ballot. If you want change so bad then fight for change. Get involved, vote, donate time and money, write letters. Besides voting, why waste time on such ineffectual activities? The reason people may want something to change is because they think that they themselves will be positively affected by such change. If one is to spend time and money doing something to positively affect their own situation, there are much more efficient ways than getting into politics. And the only reason I say "besides voting" is because voting takes so little time and energy that you might as well do it. The only situation in which large numbers of people start to "get involved" in politics is when leadership is so bad that trying to change what the government is doing is really one's only hope to try to better one's situation. That is, you get a revolution. See Libya for an example of how bad things have to get for that to happen. So long as the government remains relatively benign, as it is in Canada, people are content to be apathetic about politics. Even we political junkies on this board mostly just spar in these debates in our free time, not actually "getting involved". Frankly, people just have better things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Those are spoiled ballots....someone who selects more than one candidate..... Let everybody be prime minister...why not - lets vote everyone in...and they will all be happy...ambition is a very flighty thing...everybody has it - and few are safisfied...I guess being Prime Minister or a President is the pinicle of success..one guy I knew thought it would be more fun to be head of the American CIA...that way you could wack people for fun. Every one wants power and no one knows what to do with it once they have it. Harper and the rest of them are a pitiful lot..Layton looks like Lenin in the early stages of preservation - The French dude has good hair....and that May woman likes to practice yoga..who would vote for some hippy hag into eastern exercises? Maybe...we should vote once week on line and let everyone be king for a few days....................who can take these people seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Maybe you read to much into it. Maybe they just aren't able to find someone they feel they can vote for. Where do you think the phrase "held my nose and voted for X" came from? Some people choose not to hold their nose but still want to engage in the process. Why do you believe they have to chose someone who is on a ballot? Do you think only those who work phones or lick envelopes should be entitled to vote? If not, where do you get off telling them what they should do with their ballot? They are partaking in their own way. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Wilber, since you can't be bothered to read my replies (which have already answered you above) I'm going to take my ball and go home. Take that. So there. Yes, this is meant to be taken as sarcasm/irony (but you better ask August about what that means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Anyone that will be voting for one of the Ignatieff Coalition parties then by all means reject the election. I support you 100%. Haha, agreed . In all reality the idea of spoiling your ballot or making it 'not count' is stupid. If you're going to bother going out and voting you might as well choose the person who will best represent your interests. Edited March 28, 2011 by Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Haha, agreed . In all reality the idea of spoiling your ballot or making it 'not count' is stupid. If you're going to bother going out and voting you might as well choose the person who will best represent your interests. Eveyone is skirting the question of what do you do if all the leaders, and all the local candidates are, in your opinion, idiots. Like happens to me often. You vote for an a**hole? You don't vote? Yes. I was there. I joined a party and worked for a solution. The infrastructure buried me. But for that particular vote, what should I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 And there's the rub: to think that it's going to go away by spoiling one's ballot. Well, it's not going to go away by spoiling ones ballot. Whatever "it" is. People likely do this in order to fell better themselves, not for the primary purpose of affecting change. But likely that most these people still want change, and that they don't see it coming in any way from an elected official. The system, too corrupt to be fixed. You either accept the corruption and continue to participate, vote for leaders knowing they are corrupt but the "least harmful" of the lot, or you reject the entire notion of voting for representatives. I am in the latter group. I'm in the position that I will not affix my mark to someones name, who I know is corrupted, self serving and in the pocket of the elite. Psychologically I have always been a loner, outside of the herd and not voting simply makes me feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, I don't think the majority of people who run are "idiots", "a**holes" or "corrupt". I do however ask myself why I should legitimize something with my vote when I am not comfortable with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) While I agree that spoiling/rejecting a ballot is a waste of time, in a democracy people should be free to do so and even free to not vote. If people want to deprive themselves of a voice by not partaking in the system then that's their right. I beg to disagree. Not every vote is a meaningful one, and (by far) not every vote results in any change in representation. For example in our system, with over 90% certainty (exception is some 20 ridings out of 300+) a vote for a party that is not called "LPC" or "CPC" results in exactly zero meaning (i.e zero effect on representation). This is why we routinely hear statements like "this election will be won in a handful of switch ridings" and have grown so lazy, careless or complacent to remember that results of an election were supposed to represent the will of the entire country. This system we have is a political equivalent of a 2 year old feeding conundrum: "puree or porrige, if not puree then it has to be porrige and so on ad infinitum". I agree that it has little to offer to a politically conscious individual and staying away may be be only meaningful choice. I'm less concerned with specific way in which it's done, I would expect that once voter participation drops below 50% somebody will finally notice and in our system it may very well be the only practical way to achieve meaningful political change. Simply because the system is constructed to give maximum benefit to the two parties that are also least interested in seeing any real change. And certainly limiting the array of choices to a bland duo of near identical political twins does nothing to promote voter interest or participation. So I'm hopeful.. maybe in a couple of generations, we'll see some practical change even here. Edited March 28, 2011 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkbii Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Canadians go to the polls, again. Are you a disaffected and angry voter? Planning to pass on election day? Unwilling to play ‘party games’ again? Shouldn’t an election be about hope and renewal? There is one alternative. Reject your ballot on election day! Make the election a referendum on our political system!! It is hard for people to express dissatisfaction with our politics other than not voting. But not voting does nothing to fix our political system. In the 2008 federal election 94,733 ballots were reported as rejected. A Rejected Ballot is one that cannot be counted because it is improperly marked. The easiest way is to make no mark or select two or more choices. Elections Canada reports the number of Rejected Ballots. This is different from a Spoiled Ballot; one that is altered, defaced or destroyed. Spoiling a ballot is contrary to the Canada Elections Act and conviction could bring a $500 fine or three months in jail. So please do not spoil you ballot, not only is it against the law but spoiled ballots are not reported by EC. Let’s make this election into something positive by sending the message that we, The People, want to see real political reform, that it is no longer sufficient to just shuffle parties around. A jump in the number of rejected ballots will be a far more productive outcome than any vote for the status-quo parties. Remember this is the ONLY time you have any kind of say in our political system, don’t mess it up by staying home. Send a clear positive message this election! Don’t mark your ballot! Join the campaign. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_198289110205880 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkbii Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Whether a citizen doesn't vote by spoiling the ballot or leaving it blank or simply not going to the polls. He or She is performing an antisocial act. As members of the human race we have a obligation to participate in our respective societies. The Plutocracy that actually governs our world is very interested in fostering the different reasons why we shouldn't vote because it is one of the many ways that they are stopping us from freeing ouselves from their control. In Australia it is a law that all citizens must vote a great idea that should be implemented here in Canada. As long as we fail to exercise our voting rights we will be slaves to privlaged elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Whether a citizen doesn't vote by spoiling the ballot or leaving it blank or simply not going to the polls. He or She is performing an antisocial act. As members of the human race we have a obligation to participate in our respective societies. The Plutocracy that actually governs our world is very interested in fostering the different reasons why we shouldn't vote because it is one of the many ways that they are stopping us from freeing ouselves from their control. In Australia it is a law that all citizens must vote a great idea that should be implemented here in Canada. As long as we fail to exercise our voting rights we will be slaves to privlaged elite. Someone who has to be compelled by the law to bother coming out and voting is someone whose voice we don't really need in making political decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 As long as we fail to exercise our voting rights we will be slaves to privlaged elite. You mean the ones whose names we get to choose from the ballot list, and therebye feel we have done our country some good. Or in the case of what you are suggesting, the ones who we will be forced to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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