The end of the empire of Japan

[bush_cheney2004]

An interesting Catch-22 has developed for the damaged power plant units: leaking coolant is contaminating the work site and surrounding area, but cooling effectiveness is dependent on the flow rate of injected cooling water. For now they are throttling back on the water injection to the minimum required to keep temps acceptable.

[Sir Bandelot]

An interesting Catch-22 has developed for the damaged power plant units: leaking coolant is contaminating the work site and surrounding area, but cooling effectiveness is dependent on the flow rate of injected cooling water. For now they are throttling back on the water injection to the minimum required to keep temps acceptable.

From what I understand temps are still out of control, they have made little if any positive progress. Things are still on the worsening side of the curve.

I suspect that all this effort to hook up water pumps to the reactor is futile. It's likely that the water pipes have been severly damaged, and they are working hard making sacrifices to hook up power to pumps, while on the other side of the wall there is nothing connected.

[GostHacked]

Not surprised that you ignored such costs and damages associated with "renewables" like hydroelectric power projects over the past 125 years.

Hydro dams have already had their environmental impact, nuclear is the gift that keeps on radiating.

[GostHacked]

From what I understand temps are still out of control, they have made little if any positive progress. Things are still on the worsening side of the curve.

I suspect that all this effort to hook up water pumps to the reactor is futile. It's likely that the water pipes have been severly damaged, and they are working hard making sacrifices to hook up power to pumps, while on the other side of the wall there is nothing connected.

The containment pools I suspect are compromised, and no longer are able to hold the water. This is the most likely reason that all the area is contaminated with the radioactive water. It's seeping out to the ground, and ground water, and the ocean as well.

But do people still want to downplay the severity of this disaster?

[bush_cheney2004]

From what I understand temps are still out of control, they have made little if any positive progress. Things are still on the worsening side of the curve.

I disagree...replacing cooling water lost to flash/evaporation is a major step forward. Temps have moderated down to lower if not completely acceptable levels. They have not given up yet.

I suspect that all this effort to hook up water pumps to the reactor is futile. It's likely that the water pipes have been severly damaged, and they are working hard making sacrifices to hook up power to pumps, while on the other side of the wall there is nothing connected.

Flow rates and level changes would tell them that...the main problem here will be storage of the contaminated water from any breach. The condensers are already full. I am hoping that the large freshwater supply barges from the US Navy can be used in some capacity for collection of the contaminated water.

This is an interesting problem from an engineering perspective. There are plenty of others who can cover the "panic....we're all gonna die!" angle.

[eyeball]

This is an interesting problem from an engineering perspective. There are plenty of others who can cover the "panic....we're all gonna die!" angle.

It's not us that are all gonna die, but it's quite likely the nuclear industry is mortally wounded at, least in terms of it's growth.

[GostHacked]

This is an interesting problem from an engineering perspective. There are plenty of others who can cover the "panic....we're all gonna die!" angle.

You should volunteer to work at the site, seems like your knowledge would be put to good use.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's not us that are all gonna die, but it's quite likely the nuclear industry is mortally wounded at, least in terms of it's growth.

Wounded no doubt, but not fatally. Power plant designs will have to be improved based on lessons learned, just like any other technology. The nuclear power energy density cost benefit equation will be re-evaluated, but still remain very compelling.

[WIP]

I'm noticing that the pro-nuclear advocates who were assuring us that everything would be okay a week or so ago have vanished! Have they already headed for their fallout shelters?

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm noticing that the pro-nuclear advocates who were assuring us that everything would be okay a week or so ago have vanished! Have they already headed for their fallout shelters?

Everything will be OK...except for the actual victims. What does "vanished" mean to you?

[bloodyminded]

I'm noticing that the pro-nuclear advocates who were assuring us that everything would be okay a week or so ago have vanished! Have they already headed for their fallout shelters?

It's not that they were ensuring us that everything would be ok....they were mocking and deriding anyone who had the temerity to deviate from their precise opinion.

These types always behave that way, being totalitarians at heart. Totalitarians demand 100% agreement.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's not that they were ensuring us that everything would be ok....they were mocking and deriding anyone who had the temerity to deviate from their precise opinion.

Well yea....somebody has to be the adult during and after a disaster. We already have plenty of Chicken Littles declaring a pending doom.

[WIP]

Latest news from Japan indicates that the evidence of partial meltdowns and cracked reactor cores is moving beyond the point where other excuses can be found, and radiation will continue leaking indefinitely; so when will they start considering a Chernobyl solution and try to bury the place in concrete?

Japan on 'Maximum Alert'

for Nuclear Crisis

[WIP]

It's not that they were ensuring us that everything would be ok....they were mocking and deriding anyone who had the temerity to deviate from their precise opinion.

These types always behave that way, being totalitarians at heart. Totalitarians demand 100% agreement.

Yeah, I especially didn't appreciate being told that my concerns were emanating from a desire for a nuclear meltdown. That commenter seems to have headed for the bunker in his hasmat suit since then!

[bush_cheney2004]

A concrete tomb would still require shorter term stabilization and management of contaminated runoff/soil. Oh, and just for fun, they are still getting serious aftershocks.

[bloodyminded]

;;;

Edited March 29, 2011 by bloodyminded

[bloodyminded]

Well yea....somebody has to be the adult during and after a disaster.

That would be nice to see, sure. So far, nothing.

[GostHacked]

A concrete tomb would still require shorter term stabilization and management of contaminated runoff/soil. Oh, and just for fun, they are still getting serious aftershocks.

The aftershocks have been going on since the 11th of March, and at least 20 quakes with a 6.0 and up. Total aftershocks are at least 600.

[TimG]

I'm noticing that the pro-nuclear advocates who were assuring us that everything would be okay a week or so ago have vanished! Have they already headed for their fallout shelters?

I still don't see any evidence that this will be any more than problem for the immediate area. The only thing that has changed in he last week or so is the resolution will not be as quick as I hoped.

And yes. I still think you really want to see a disaster occur because it would support your pre-existing beliefs about nuclear power. There is simply no other explaination for your hysterical posts on the topic. You will be dissappointed when this issue whimpers away.

[TimG]

It's not that they were ensuring us that everything would be ok....they were mocking and deriding anyone who had the temerity to deviate from their precise opinion.

People who run around screaming the world is coming to an end deserve to be mocked. Reality is never as bad as the hysterics claim. In this case, the problems appear to be more difficult than they initially appeared, but, the will be resolved.

[bloodyminded]

People who run around screaming the world is coming to an end deserve to be mocked. Reality is never as bad as the hysterics claim. In this case, the problems appear to be more difficult than they initially appeared, but, the will be resolved.

In this case, my response was

This could potentially be a serious problem.

That's it. Unedited.

I was deemed a "chicken little" who was "waiting frantically for the world to explode."

And which of these sounds the most hysterical to you?

[TimG]

I was deemed a "chicken little" who was "waiting frantically for the world to explode."

If that is all of the context then it was an over reaction to what you said. However, other posters have been much more strident in the forecasts of doom.

[GostHacked]

If that is all of the context then it was an over reaction to what you said. However, other posters have been much more strident in the forecasts of doom.

People can rebuild from an earthquake, people can rebuild from a tsunami, not so easy with radiation.

And those who have been warning of the doom, have been proven right at every turn. I was being as realistic as I could be, and I got called an alarmist. We saw 3 explosions at 3 of the 6 towers. Got called alarmist. Radiation levels keep going up and down. Got called an alarmist. Telling of possible meltdowns. Got called an alarmist. Radiation levels reported in food and milk and at the US stopped imports of food from the Fukushima area. Got called an alarmist. Exclusion zones expanded from 10 to 20 to 30 KMs .. again called an alarmist.

When I said there would be over 10,000 deaths, .. again alarmist. Post to the left said there would not be more than 1000 deaths. Again, I was being realistic, which people say that is being an alarmist.

Use your brains people. The media and the Japanese officials and TEPCO have lied to you all along. They can no longer hide behind the lies.

I guess what it boils down to is being realistic is being an alarmist.

[TimG]

And those who have been warning of the doom, have been proven right at every turn.

Actually you have been as wrong as everyone else. Nothing you predicted has come true. The only problem going on now is a very messy yet localized radiation problem. The trouble is we have no idea of the true extent yet the media is playing up the worst case scenarios. The increased exclusion zones do NOT mean more risk. Just that the government cannot know for sure how serious the problem is.

Use your brains people. The media and the Japanese officials and TEPCO have lied to you all along. They can no longer hide behind the lies.

Nobody is lying. The situation is evolving. Information gets published as soon as it is available and, in many cases, these information releases create unnecessary panic.

I guess what it boils down to is being realistic is being an alarmist.

If you were realist your position would have changed as the information available changed. You have repeated a single note all along.

[GostHacked]

Actually you have been as wrong as everyone else. Nothing you predicted has come true. The only problem going on now is a very messy yet localized radiation problem. The trouble is we have no idea of the true extent yet the media is playing up the worst case scenarios. The increased exclusion zones do NOT mean more risk. Just that the government cannot know for sure how serious the problem is.

Nobody is lying. The situation is evolving. Information gets published as soon as it is available and, in many cases, these information releases create unnecessary panic.

If you were realist your position would have changed as the information available changed. You have repeated a single note all along.

All the information that has come out so far has supported my initial claims.

Was I wrong about over 10,000 deaths? No.

Was I wrong about the seriousness of the nuclear reactors? No.