The end of the empire of Japan

[GostHacked]

Found this interesting bit.

http://lucaswhitefieldhixson.com/hi-res-photographic-proof-reactor-core-exploded-unit-3-0

Pretty damning. Based on this look, Reactor 3 did have a core exlosion.

[TimG]

Pretty damning. Based on this look, Reactor 3 did have a core exlosion.

Reminds me of 9/11 truthies looking for bombs...

There was no core explosion. If there was nobody would be able to get near the plants today.

The only problem is the torus on reactor 2 which appears to be leaking radioactive water.

This problem was reported as soon as authorities knew about it back in the early stages of the event.

[bush_cheney2004]

Reminds me of 9/11 truthies looking for bombs...

There was no core explosion. If there was nobody would be able to get near the plants today.

The only problem is the torus on reactor 2 which appears to be leaking radioactive water.

This problem was reported as soon as authorities knew about it back in the early stages of the event.

That's not good enough for doom mongers....waiting years for a complete and accurate assessment just won't do. Ironically, they haven't learn this 25 years removed from Chernobyl.

[GostHacked]

Reminds me of 9/11 truthies looking for bombs...

There was no core explosion. If there was nobody would be able to get near the plants today.

The only problem is the torus on reactor 2 which appears to be leaking radioactive water.

This problem was reported as soon as authorities knew about it back in the early stages of the event.

Keep telling yourself that. If you are comforable believeing whatever TEPCO and the Japanese governments tell you, then there is no amount of data that will convince you otherwise.

[TimG]

Keep telling yourself that. If you are comforable believeing whatever TEPCO and the Japanese governments tell you, then there is no amount of data that will convince you otherwise.

I don't have to believe them. The IAEA is involved. Even Greenpeace. If there was a core explosion someone would have data proving it and there would be no way for TEPCO to stop it. The lack of data says there was no core explosion.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....crickets.....still waiting to die from acute radiation poisoning. There are fewer Japanese made cameras in stock at Target and WalMart, but that is hardly the end of the world. I guess my old 10 megapixel model will just have to do for now.

[bud]

A senior nuclear adviser to Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan has resigned, criticizing the government for ignoring his advice on radiation limits and not doing enough to deal with the crisis at the Fukushima nuclear power plant.

Toshiso Kosako, a professor at the University of Tokyo, was only recently named an aide to Kan on March 16, five days after a magnitude-9.0 earthquake and tsunami hit Japan

In a teary news conference on Friday night, Kosako said he could not stay on while the government set, what he deemed, inappropriate radiation limits for elementary schools near the plant.

"I cannot allow this as a scholar," he said, adding that he also opposed the government raising the limit for radiation exposure for workers at the plant.

The government has set 20-millisievert limit for radiation exposure as safe, but according to Kosako, that is 20 times too high, especially for children, who are considered more vulnerable to radiation than adults.

cricket

[bud]

**cricket**

[GostHacked]

Check out all of FairWinds videos with Arnold Gunderson. He talks about reactor #3 and how fuel rods have been blown up to two miles from the site.

Latest info from RT.

Chernobyl is a walk in the park compared to Fukushima.

[bush_cheney2004]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J834KH43YgE&feature=related

[TimG]

Check out all of FairWinds videos with Arnold Gunderson. He talks about reactor #3 and how fuel rods have been blown up to two miles from the site.

Nothing but speculation with no real evidence to back up his claims.

I love the way to explains away the lack of radiation data by claiming, without one shred of proof, that the radiation went out to sea. Who needs data when you can just make crap up?

Edited May 11, 2011 by TimG

[Bonam]

The government has set 20-millisievert limit for radiation exposure as safe, but according to Kosako, that is 20 times too high, especially for children, who are considered more vulnerable to radiation than adults.[/b]

Nonsense article. 20 mSv over what timescale? 20 times too high? 1 mSv is the normal annual radiation dose for a person living in a very low background radiation area. Clearwater BC gets 8 mSv/year of natural background radiation exposure. Some places in the world get 50mSv/year natural background radiation. People living in Ramsar, the most naturally radioactive known place on Earth, get ~200 mSv/year of radiation exposure, and studies have found no ill effects.

[GostHacked]

Nothing but speculation with no real evidence to back up his claims.

Who in their right mind is going to go to Japan to gather evidence anyways?

I love the way to explains away the lack of radiation data by claiming, without one shred of proof, that the radiation went out to sea. Who needs data when you can just make crap up?

I would not trust you TimG, as a nuclear expert, but I'd love to hear what you have to say about it.

The radiation did go out to sea, it was a case of which way the wind was blowing. That is how US and Canadian radiation testing centers were able to pick up on higher than normal radiation levels. If you look at weather patterns world wide, the winds go from east to west around the northern part of the globe. So it only makes sense it went out to see. Or else, a good deal of japan would be screwed. And China would make a stink about it if they had large levels of radiation. But as it is, the radiation from Fukushima has circled the entire globe at this point, probaly a couple times now.

The guy testified for TMI. I think this guy knows what he is talking about. And he has explained it much better than any TEPCO or Japanese official. Keep your head in your sand if you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Gundersen

http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/news2000/nn10410.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/ItsJustCommonSense/nrc-3-us-nuclear-plants-n_n_843120_82798337.html

“Ten years ago, Arnold Gundersen was a Senior Vice President w/Nuclear Energy Services and a respected expert in his field.

He uncovered safety violations at NES & reported them to management­­. After deciding to file reports-he was dismissed from his job. It took him 5yr to prove his allegation­s. In the meantime he was blackliste­­d by the industry for discussing violations w/state & fed regulators­. He was even sued by NES for defamation­­.

Eventually the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission concluded there had been 'irregular­­ities' at NES. In a separate report-the Office of the Inspector General reported that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission had violated its own regulation­­s by improperly steering business to NES.

[TimG]

Who in their right mind is going to go to Japan to gather evidence anyways?

People who are interested in finding the trust.

The radiation did go out to sea, it was a case of which way the wind was blowing.

The guy made a claim that Fukushima would have been much worse than it was because the prevailing winds blew the radiation out to sea. Yet he has no data to support this claim. Trace levels of radiation showing up off the coast of North America do not provide evidence for this claim.

Lots of people who are experts have been making pronouncements based on no data which have turned out to be wrong. For example, the US guy who claimed the water in the pool from reactor 4 boiled off was completely wrong.

The only people who have any credibility are people who are at the site and working with actual information as opposed to speculation and supposition.

Edited May 11, 2011 by TimG

[GostHacked]

People who are interested in finding the trust.

The guy made a claim that Fukushima would have been much worse than it was because the prevailing winds blew the radiation out to sea. Yet he has no data to support this claim. Trace levels of radiation showing up off the coast of North America do not provide evidence for this claim.

Well use some common sense. If the wind blows east ... where would the radiation most likely go? Trace evidence of certain types of radiation (only produced in a nuclear reaction) are definately detectable and we do have the means to detect it and determine it's not normal background radiation. If the winds were blowing the other way, the land would be contaminated with the radiation, which would be harder to get rid of. The fact it did blow out to sea (no one is denying the direction of the winds at that time)and the ocean disipated most of it.

Let me clarify:

The radiation now comming out of the site goes everywhere no matter what. But the initial explosions and some of the debris fall out was carried out to sea by the winds.

Lots of people who are experts have been making pronouncements based on no data which have turned out to be wrong. For example, the US guy who claimed the water in the pool from reactor 4 boiled off was completely wrong.

Again, this guy has a history and seems very knowledgable on the subject. And he is focusing more on reactor #3 that send stuff flying a couple thousand feet into the air. Listen to his explanation that it could not possibly be a hydrogen explosion, well not JUST a hydrogen explosion. Hydrogen as a gas is lighter than air, and would rise to the top of the reactor tower. The explosion happened below the cooling pool in oder to send stuff that high in the air.

I do suggest watching all his videos, and then get back to me.

The only people who have any credibility are people who are at the site and working with actually information as opposed to speculation and supposition.

Bullshit, those people have lost all credibility. Some even resigned because of the incident. Maybe you can show what the 'experts' are saying?

Edited May 11, 2011 by GostHacked

[GostHacked]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8509502/Nuclear-meltdown-at-Fukushima-plant.html

One of the reactors at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi power plant did suffer a nuclear meltdown, Japanese officials admitted for the first time today, describing a pool of molten fuel at the bottom of the reactor's containment vessel.

Meltdown confirmed.

Edited May 12, 2011 by GostHacked

[TimG]

Meltdown confirmed.

So? Meltdowns are not the end of the world. The issue is if the containment vessel has been breached and that appears to not be the case:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110512x1.html

Although the water is leaking from somewhere in the pressure vessel, Tepco officials don't believe the melted fuel has penetrated the bottom of the pressure vessel and dropped into the containment vessel below, given that the thermometer placed at the bottom of the pressure vessel is still working. If a big chunk of the bottom was missing, the thermometer would malfunction, Tepco said.

Edited May 12, 2011 by TimG

[GostHacked]

So? Meltdowns are not the end of the world. The issue is if the containment vessel has been breached and that appears to not be the case:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110512x1.html

Well I guess I have been proven right when I said there was a meltdown. It took almost 2 months for Japanese officials to admit that. So you can expect them to admit that the containment vessel has been breached as well.

Quote from the article I posted.

Now the company is worried that the molten pool of radioactive fuel may have burned a hole through the bottom of the containment vessel, causing water to leak.

[TimG]

Well I guess I have been proven right when I said there was a meltdown.

Everyone agrees that there was at least a partial meltdown weeks ago. This is not news. The question was always whether the containment vessel was breached. This appears to be not the case but there to appear to be cracks.

Quote from the article I posted.

Your source does not match what was printed in the Japan Times. I don't consider the claim to be credible. I suspect they printed speculation rather than facts.

I realize that you are desperately searching for reasons to justify your orginal panic but we know what the effects were from Fukushima during the crisis and they were bad but confined to the local area. Anything they uncover now does not make what happened in the past worse than it was.

Edited May 12, 2011 by TimG

[GostHacked]

Everyone agrees that there was at least a partial meltdown weeks ago. This is not news. The question was always whether the containment vessel was breached. This appears to be not the case but there to appear to be cracks.

Well, at first you did not even believe there was a meltdown.

Your source does not match what was printed in the Japan Times. I don't consider the claim to be credible. I suspect they printed speculation rather than facts.

So your source is more credible than mine?

I realize that you are desperately searching for reasons to justify your orginal panic but we know what the effects were from Fukushima during the crisis and they were bad but confined to the local area. Anything they uncover now does not make what happened in the past worse than it was.

The radiation has circled the entire globe. There is nothing localized about nuclear radiation.

[TimG]

Well, at first you did not even believe there was a meltdown.

You were using meltdown to mean containment breach so used the word in the same way. The containment had not been breached.

So your source is more credible than mine?

Yes. First - it is from Japan. Second, look at the difference in information content. My source has more facts - less speculation.

The radiation has circled the entire globe. There is nothing localized about nuclear radiation.

Total BS. Radiation outside of Japan has been barely above background levels. Edited May 12, 2011 by TimG

[WIP]

I haven't been watching the Japanese nuclear disaster as diligently as I was a few weeks ago, largely because the Japanese Government and TEPCO were following a pattern of deliberate withholding of information. But, just as a lot of nuclear critics figured, they wouldn't be able to keep the lid on forever if high radiation levels were found outside the exclusion zone, and an examination of the damaged reactors was finally done.

So, now we know that REactor One has suffered a core meltdown -- something independent observers suspected early on, but Japanese officials tried to obfuscate with other minimizing alternatives. And REactor One was not considered the greatest risk - the 2nd Reactor is generally considered the greatest threat. And here's another potential disaster that is not being discussed in mainstream corporate media: On Russia Today, they have an interview with Robert Jacobs of the Hiroshima Peace Institute, where he points out around 2 minutes in that there is evidence that the building housing Reactor 4 - which was empty but houses a full spent fuel pond of spent fuel rods that have started melting, and that the building is leaning, and in danger of collapse...which would dump radioactive spent fuel rods out in the open, making it impossible for anyone to continue work at the other troubled reactors.

[Saipan]

Makes one wonder. Is the electricity from that one source really worth all that risk? Coal is so much safer. It only need improvements to burn cleaner. Such power plant can be instantly abandoned in time of natural disaster and nothing happen.

[TimG]

something independent observers suspected early on, but Japanese officials tried to obfuscate with other minimizing alternatives.

One of the problems with conspiracy theorists like you is you love to make up crap that suits your narrative.

From March 13th Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said:

"We do believe that there is a possibility that meltdown has occurred. It is inside the reactor. We can't see. However, we are assuming that a meltdown has occurred," he said of the No. 1 reactor. "And with reactor No. 3, we are also assuming that the possibility of a meltdown as we carry out measures."

There is nothing that minimizes the facts and we now know he was correct: a meltdown occurred but stayed insided the containment vessel which means there were minimal radiation leaks.

Of course, I don't expect facts to stop you from spouting your propoganda.

Edited May 15, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

Makes one wonder. Is the electricity from that one source really worth all that risk?

It really depends on the country. Nuclear makes a lot of sense for a country without any coal reserves like france or japan.

In any case, natural gas appears to the fuel of the future that will undercut nuclear, coal and renewables. OF course, the environmentalists are trying hard to block natural gas now they realized that it undermines their plan de-industrialize society.

Edited May 15, 2011 by TimG