The end of the empire of Japan

[GostHacked]

Here we go again .... a 7.4 hit off the coast of Northern Japan. Tsunami warning again.

I hope this just fizzled out and does not cause any damage.

[TimG]

Headlines you won't see in western newspapers:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110407x2.html

Radiation eases; police search for 2,400 missing in 10- to 20-km zone

Fukushima and Tokyo police launched the search Thursday as the radiation levels have stabilized, the police said.

[bush_cheney2004]

Headlines you won't see in western newspapers:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110407x2.html

Nope.....methodically managing the containment challenge isn't very sexy. Why are they loading/purging with nitrogen...don't they know that the panicked masses need another hydrogen explosion to confirm their greatest fears?

[Post To The Left]

Reporters enter the exclusion zone. Surprised by lack of zombies, friendliness of forgotten dogs.


Mental note when entering a nuclear danger zone bring a bunch of dog food.

[xul]

I have to concede that I have lost confidence in Japanese government. The communist governments(like the Soviet and China) sometimes were talking, were covering, but they at least did something when such things happened. The Japanese government is also talking, covering, but what have they done or what is their plan? I can hardly believe such thing is really happening--if a foreign media reporter can go into the area and find this old man, why couldn't those policemen, soldiers and rescue workers find him if there are organized rescue operation?

I think the super-fiscal-conservatives, if there had any, might like this story: just let the strongers survive and the weakers die, meanwhile government does nothing---Isn't it the best way to cut down governmental spending?

Scared and alone, Japanese farmer waited weeks for help

MINAMI SOMA, Japan — The farmhouse sits at the end of a mud-caked, one-lane road strewn with toppled trees, the decaying carcasses of dead pigs and large debris deposited by the March 11 tsunami.

Stranded alone inside the unheated, dark home is 75-year-old Kunio Shiga. He cannot walk very far and doesn't know what happened to his wife.

His neighbors have all left because the area is 12 miles (20 kilometers) from the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant — just within the zone where authorities have told everyone to get out because of concerns about leaking radiation.

No rescuer ever came for him.

Edited April 9, 2011 by xul

[GostHacked]

Punch this into your google earth or google maps.

37°25'16.81" N 141°02'01.88" E

You can get a good view of the Fukushima plant on the whole.

Edited April 9, 2011 by GostHacked

[TimG]

I can hardly believe such thing is really happening--if a foreign media reporter can go into the area and find this old man, why couldn't those policemen, soldiers and rescue workers find him if there are organized rescue operation?

Of course, when china had their earthquake foreign reporters were not allowed to wander around freely. It is quite unfair to compare the two situations. If I remember correctly the foreign media buzz was about how offical corruption lead to the construction of unsafe schools. Given a choice between two bad governments I would take the Japansese.

Second - and most important. This guy was INSIDE the the Fukushima evacuation zone. It is rather insane to expect people to conduct random searches inside the evacuation zone. It is not clear why he missed the evaccuation warning.

[xul]

Of course, when china had their earthquake foreign reporters were not allowed to wander around freely.

I heard the only reason that foreign reporters were not to allowed to wander around freely because reportedly there were a lot of military facilities include a nuclear reactor complex which was supposed to produce or develope A-bombs nearby.

And obviously there wasn't any radioactive leaking after the earthquake.

It is quite unfair to compare the two situations. If I remember correctly the foreign media buzz was about how offical corruption lead to the construction of unsafe schools.

Maybe the corruption contributed a fraction of the situation, but if you lived in a region which average GDP was less than $1,000/per capita, you would also have few steel bars in the walls of your school buildings.

Given a choice between two bad governments I would take the Japansese.

I believe you said this genuinely...but I guess those who were burried alive beneath the debris of their houses would not agree with you.

Second - and most important. This guy was INSIDE the the Fukushima evacuation zone. It is rather insane to expect people to conduct random searches inside the evacuation zone. It is not clear why he missed the evaccuation warning.

If I was someone wearing uniform and paid by tax$, I would rather like to check every houses in the district which I'm supposed to responsible for to make sure nobody was left behind, than evacuated myself first and left civilians behind.

Everyone knows it is insane to go inside a burning wooden house. But taking some risk to fulfill our duty isn't insane at all, isn't it?

Two firefighters die in Ontario blaze

And I think, after the tsunami, there are not many houses left intact. So it isn't very difficult to fly a few helicopters over the area to check every left farmhouse to make sure there isn't anyone left behind.

Edited April 9, 2011 by xul

[TimG]

I heard the only reason that foreign reporters were not to allowed to wander around freely because reportedly there were a lot of military facilities include a nuclear reactor complex which was supposed to produce or develope A-bombs nearby.

That was the excuse given. It might be true but you know that no reporter would have been given the free access that is available in Japan.

I believe you said this genuinely...but I guess those who were burried alive beneath the debris of their houses would not agree with you.

Let's not exagerrate the situation. He had shelter and food obviously. He would not have survived otherwise.

If I was someone wearing uniform and paid by tax$, I would rather like to check every houses in the district which I'm supposed to responsible for to make sure nobody was left behind, than evacuated myself first and left civilians behind.

Why are you assuming they did not?

Everyone knows it is insane to go inside a burning wooden house. But taking some risk to fulfill our duty isn't insane at all, isn't it?

And those people were a little more worried about getting those reactors under control.

And I think, after the tsunami, there are not many houses left intact. So it isn't very difficult to fly a few helicopters over the area to check every left farmhouse to make sure there isn't anyone left behind.

The only aircraft in that air were dropping water on the reactors. I really think your expectations are quite rediculous give the other events going on. It is great that the guy survived but trying to turn it into an excuse to call the Japanese government incompetent makes no sense (not to say that the government does not have problems - just that this is not a example of one). Edited April 10, 2011 by TimG

[Sir Bandelot]

It is great that the guy survived but trying to turn it into an excuse to call the Japanese government incompetent makes no sense (not to say that the government does not have problems - just that this is not a example of one).

The governments first priority is to protect the people. But from what I'm reading these days about Japan, that is not what they take most seriously. Japan is a fascist state focused primarily on making money for big corporations, at the expense of the people who are virtually slaves in a two-tier caste system, the vast majority completely subjugated to big powers. Beware.

[GostHacked]

The governments first priority is to protect the people. But from what I'm reading these days about Japan, that is not what they take most seriously. Japan is a fascist state focused primarily on making money for big corporations, at the expense of the people who are virtually slaves in a two-tier caste system, the vast majority completely subjugated to big powers. Beware.

With that in mind, does anyone really think what the Japanese officials are telling us is the whole truth? Underestimating and under reporting the severity of this crisis?

[TimG]

Japan is a fascist state focused primarily on making money for big corporations, at the expense of the people who are virtually slaves in a two-tier caste system, the vast majority completely subjugated to big powers. Beware.

The Japanese government has a lot of problems. But describing it as a 'facist state' is nothing but hate mongering. The problems with the Japanese government are the result of a resistance to change - things are done because that is how they always were done. Edited April 10, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

With that in mind, does anyone really think what the Japanese officials are telling us is the whole truth? Underestimating and under reporting the severity of this crisis?

You woudl say that no matter what the government did so your opinion on the matter has zero credibility.

[Sir Bandelot]

The Japanese government has a lot of problems. But describing it as a 'facist state' is nothing but hate mongering. The problems with the Japanese government are the result of a resistance to change - things are done because that is how they always were done.

It is NOT hate mongering. I do not hate the Japanese.

There is evidence that their problems were made even more severe by the fact that they make extensive use of part-time labourers, temps, people who are not properly trained and fully engaged into the system. They also tend to use human beings to do jobs on the reactor that we in Canada and in the US would use machines to do, robotics etc. Again disrespecting the sanctity of the human being. This from a country that is likely world leader in robotics. Ponder on why this is.

Unlike your baseless claims that I am a hate monger, merely for my criticism of the situation before the earthquake, what I said is substantiated by real information.

Japanese Workers Braved Radiation for a Temp Job

So if you're just going to sit there and say, anyone who sees it different then you is a hate monger, go and be damned.

[GostHacked]

You woudl say that no matter what the government did so your opinion on the matter has zero credibility.

TEPCO and the Japanese government have no credibility in my view. TEPCO has had a history of violations, but that seems to go over your head.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/11/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1

Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan's government Monday called for evacuations for several towns beyond the danger zone already declared around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, warning that residents could receive high doses of radiation over the coming months.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the municipalities are likely to see long-term radiation levels that exceed international safety standards, and he warned that the month-old crisis at Fukushima Daiichi was not yet over.

[TimG]

Unlike your baseless claims that I am a hate monger

You used word 'facist' to describe the Japanese government. If you dont want to be called a hatemonger then don't make word choices that only serve to spread hate.

So if you're just going to sit there and say, anyone who sees it different then you is a hate monger, go and be damned.

I critize people who think they can label anything they dislike as 'facist' or 'communist'. If you have a point to make then you can making without invoking the ghost of hilter or stalin. Edited April 11, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

TEPCO and the Japanese government have no credibility in my view. TEPCO has had a history of violations

So? Why is that relevant today? If anything TEPCO and the Japanese government seem to be erring on the side of too much information.

[GostHacked]

You used word 'facist' to describe the Japanese government. If you dont want to be called a hatemonger then don't make word choices that only serve to spread hate.

If I call the Chinese communist, am I promoting hate or fear? No I call them communist because they are.

I critize people who think they can label anything they dislike as 'facist' or 'communist'. If you have a point to make then you can making without invoking the ghost of hilter or stalin.

Then you need to understand what fascism really is. And there is no need to invoke Hitler or Stalin. Even Canada and the US can be considered fascist in some ways, because corporations and banks are in bed with the government.

[GostHacked]

So? Why is that relevant today? If anything TEPCO and the Japanese government seem to be erring on the side of too much information.

A company that has had a history of violations and cover ups is not relevant? Get your head out of the sand.

[Sir Bandelot]

You used word 'facist' to describe the Japanese government. If you dont want to be called a hatemonger then don't make word choices that only serve to spread hate.

I critize people who think they can label anything they dislike as 'facist' or 'communist'. If you have a point to make then you can making without invoking the ghost of hilter or stalin.

I never invoked Hitler or Stalin. You just did though. But I do not automatically equate the word Fascism with them. Perhaps you do, but I don't. Fascism to me means corporate control ie. big business running the country by proxy, using their economic power to control government. The main problem here is that fascism places corporate life above human life. And in the capitalist system, it's necessary to suppress workers giving them minimal pay in order to maximize the profit margin. This may seem ike a good business model but if we look at the effect on society as a whole, we can make projections into the future and what effects it will bring. Fascist capitalism is self defeating. This catastrophe is but one example of why.

-> If you have a point to make then you can making without invoking the ghost of hilter or stalin.

I will make my points any way I please. The day I start taking orders from you or anyone here, as to what I should or should not say is the last day I post.

[TimG]

A company that has had a history of violations and cover ups is not relevant?

Where is your evidence that they would be stupid enough to try that again? Simply pointing to a history of coverups does not make the automatically guilty of covering anything up today. Without evidence all you got is your assertion that they must be hiding something because they are not saying things which are scary enough for you.

[TimG]

I never invoked Hitler or Stalin. You just did though. But I do not automatically equate the word Fascism with them.

I used to play that game with 'communism' which technically refers to a non-capitalist communal economic system. But such arguments are nonsense because everyone associates those words with Hilter or Stalin and special pleading on your part changes nothing.

I will make my points any way I please. The day I start taking orders from you or anyone here, as to what I should or should not say is the last day I post.

Then don't complain when people call you a hatemonger. Edited April 11, 2011 by TimG

[GostHacked]

Where is your evidence that they would be stupid enough to try that again? Simply pointing to a history of coverups does not make the automatically guilty of covering anything up today. Without evidence all you got is your assertion that they must be hiding something because they are not saying things which are scary enough for you.

Where is your evidence that they would not cover it up. Also, this thread is proof that TEPCO and the Japanese government has covered up how serious the nuclear crisis is. You might want to read it again, with all the links posted.

[TimG]

Where is your evidence that they would not cover it up.

Can you the prove that you did not rob a bank last week? The onus is on you to show that:

1) Important information was kept quiet;

2) The government and/or TEPCO knew this information in advance;

3) The information was certain (i.e. they knew it it to be true - there is no obligation to report speculation - even if that speculation turns out to right later);

You have nothing that comes close to meeting 1) nevermind 2 or 3.

[eyeball]

Can you the prove that you did not rob a bank last week? The onus is on you to show that:

1) Important information was kept quiet;

2) The government and/or TEPCO knew this information in advance;

3) The information was certain (i.e. they knew it it to be true - there is no obligation to report speculation - even if that speculation turns out to right later);

You have nothing that comes close to meeting 1) nevermind 2 or 3.

Can everything the government and TEPCO have claimed be audited and validated? If not then you are asking the impossible.

The onus is on you to show the evidence you're asking for is even obtainable.