And You thought Wisconsin was bad

[Jonsa]

Michigan is experiencing something that is truly chilling. All in the name of fiscal responsibility, the Republicans in Michigan are moving to create fiscal emergencies then using appointed emergency financial managers (who can be corporations or individuals) usurp local government completely, sell off local assets, dissolve municipal incorporations, dissolve any and all contracts, suspend collective bargaining. The state republicans seem to be positioning themselves to take over the entire state whilst removing all local democratic opposition. Oh yeah, and there isn't any appeal process.

Amazing stuff and its a good bet they'll get away with it.

http://michiganmessenger.com/46665/gov-snyder-unveils-his-budget-plan#

That $1.8 billion business tax cut is being offset by tax increases and steep cuts to other parts of the budget, including a new tax on public and private pensions for retirees. Under current law, public pensions are entirely untaxed in the state, while private pensions are exempt from taxation up to $45,000 for individuals and $90,000 for couples. That tax would raise about $1 billion a year in new revenue.

On the spending side, Snyder’s plan would also reduce local revenue sharing by a third. That is tax funding sent to the local communities that help pay for local services such police and fire service, parks and recreation programming and more. The plan would also change the way such revenue is shared; instead of being distributed by population, communities would have to compete for the funds based on their willingness to share services and make other reforms.

http://michiganmessenger.com/47013/bill-offers-no-guidelines-for-use-of-emergency-managers-powers#’

State officials estimate that dozens of local governments and school districts will soon be unable to pay their bills and the Treasury dept. is on record supporting a bill — passed by the House last week — which would recast Emergency Financial Managers as Emergency Managers and give them unprecedented new power to fire elected officials, dissolve labor contracts and reorganize or dissolve cities and school districts.

http://michiganmessenger.com/46589/house-considers-new-powers-for-emergency-financial-managers

The state House is holding hearings this week on a package of bills that would allow the state treasurer to appoint corporations to replace the elected governments of towns in fiscal crisis.

The legislation before the House Local, Intergovernmental and Regional Affairs Committee allows the state treasurer and state superintendent to appoint firms rather than individuals to take over insolvent municipalities and school systems.

The proposed law gives emergency financial managers the power to cancel existing labor contracts, suspend collective bargaining for up to five years, and remove officials from office and prohibit them from seeking office for 10 years.

Emergency financial managers would also get power to restructure local government, exclude elected officials from meetings and sell, lease or otherwise use local government assets to pay off debt, according to a House Fiscal Agency analysis.

[bush_cheney2004]

...The state republicans seem to be positioning themselves to take over the entire state whilst removing all local democratic opposition. Oh yeah, and there isn't any appeal process.

Amazing stuff and its a good bet they'll get away with it....

Well, which party won the election(s)? That's why they will "get away with it", less any judicial review.

[CANADIEN]

Public sector pensions should be taxed the same as private sector ones. That being said, considering that most retired people are on fixed income, a partial examption on tzxes on pension is a good, even necessary measure, and it is quite objectionable that this would abolished in the name of fiscal prudence while at the same time massive tax cuts are given to the richest segments of society. Well I guess that Joe-Six-Pack deserves fiscal protection... until he retires.

As for other measures proposed in Michigan... Things may different there than they are here, but here ELECTED local officials work to the voters, not the provincial government. While the provincial government has a lot of control about the number of elected officials, their powers, their responsibility, reporting requirements etc., and the end it does not choose and employ them. We, the people, do.

Provincial/state governments should be able to suspend the powers of elected local officials who act improperly. But this is not what is proposed here. Instead, we are talking about the usurping of the power of the people to be the ultimate judges of the performence of ITS elected official. Even worse, CORPORATIONS could be appointed to take over local governments, with the power to fire ELECTED officials.

This is an attack on democratic institutions. Last time I checked, the Constitution of the United States didn't start with the words "We the Corporations".

Edited March 9, 2011 by CANADIEN

[bush_cheney2004]

....Tnis is an attack on democratic institutions. Last time I checked, the Constitution of the United States didn't start with the words "We the Corporations".

Last time I checked, the United States didn't start with entitlement programs and guaranteed defined benefit plans either.

[Jonsa]

Well, which party won the election(s)? That's why they will "get away with it", less any judicial review.

You can bet there's gonna be some judicial reviews on this beaut.

the party that won sure as hell didn't run on that platform. And nothing like winning an election, creating a crisis and then assigning CORPORATIONS to arbitrarily remedy that crisis by screwing the local elected government. Nice giant step towards totalitarianism. Won't be long now before the "conservatives" figure to do away with the inconvenience of elections altogether.

[Jonsa]

Last time I checked, the United States didn't start with entitlement programs and guaranteed defined benefit plans either.

which naturally explains your recent steady decline into debt and mediocrity.

[Jack Weber]

You can bet there's gonna be some judicial reviews on this beaut.

the party that won sure as hell didn't run on that platform. And nothing like winning an election, creating a crisis and then assigning CORPORATIONS to arbitrarily remedy that crisis by screwing the local elected government. Nice giant step towards totalitarianism. Won't be long now before the "conservatives" figure to do away with the inconvenience of elections altogether.

Sadly,one has to ask the question..

"Is there anything to really stop them since the US Supreme Court decision a little over a year ago?"

I know the usual suspects will try to mock and kill the messenger on this one because it will suit their purpose of clouding the issue,however,it seems this is becoming more salient by the minute!!!

Welcome to the obvious infection/legislated attack of Corporate Fascism on democracy...Or what's left of democracy!!!

And this is only the beginning!!!!

Edited March 9, 2011 by Jack Weber

[pinko]

Public sector pensions should be taxed the same as private sector ones. That being said, considering that most retired people are on fixed income, a partial examption on tzxes on pension is a good, even necessary measure, and it is quite objectionable that this would abolished in the name of fiscal prudence while at the same time massive tax cuts are given to the richest segments of society. Well I guess that Joe-Six-Pack deserves fiscal protection... until he retires.

As for other measures proposed in Michigan... Things may different there than they are here, but here ELECTED local officials work to the voters, not the provincial government. While the provincial government has a lot of control about the number of elected officials, their powers, their responsibility, reporting requirements etc., and the end it does not choose and employ them. We, the people, do.

Provincial/state governments should be able to suspend the powers of elected local officials who act improperly. But this is not what is proposed here. Instead, we are talking about the usurping of the power of the people to be the ultimate judges of the performence of ITS elected official. Even worse, CORPORATIONS could be appointed to take over local governments, with the power to fire ELECTED officials.

This is an attack on democratic institutions. Last time I checked, the Constitution of the United States didn't start with the words "We the Corporations".

For your information a public sector pension is taxed once a person draws on such a pension.

By elected local official I take it you are referring to municipal government. I live in the City of Winnipeg and we have civic elections every four years. At such intervals we (the voters) elect a mayor and 15 other city councillors whose responsibilities are outlined in The City of Winnipeg Charter Act, a piece of legislation created by the provincial government. Between elections the Council makes budgetary decisions and establishes spending and taxing priorities. While they are certainly accountable to the electorate they are also acting on behalf of the City of Winnipeg.

Edited March 9, 2011 by pinko

[CANADIEN]

Sadly,one has to ask the question..

"Is there anything to really stop them since the US Supreme Court decision a little over a year ago?"

I know the usual suspects will try to mock and kill the messenger on this one because it will suit their purpose of clouding the issue,however,it seems this is becoming more salient by the minute!!!

Welcome to the obvious infection/legislated attack of Corporate Fascism on democracy...Or what's left of democracy!!!

And this is only the beginning!!!!

I am no fan of corporations being able to do political speech. But Dred Scott? Pleeeeeeaaaaase.

[CANADIEN]

For your information a public sector pension is taxed once a person draws on such a pension.

In the State of Michigan, public sector pensions have been taxed differently from private sector ones. That should not be the case.

By elected local official I take it you are referring to municipal government. I live in the City of Winnipeg and we have civic elections every four years. At such intervals we (the voters) elect a mayor and 15 other city councillors whose responsibilities are outlined in The City of Winnipeg Charter Act, a piece of legislation created by the provincial government. Between elections the Council makes budgetary decisions and establishes spending and taxing priorities. While they are certainly accountable to the electorate they are also acting on behalf of the City of Winnipeg.

Municial governments, school boards, etc.

[CANADIEN]

There is also the little things about the capacity to tear union contracts apart... Legally binding contracts... Oh well... I just got my VISA bill; do I have the right to claim that I cannot pay and therefore I now owe them nothing?

[pinko]

In the State of Michigan, public sector pensions have been taxed differently from private sector ones. That should not be the case.

Municial governments, school boards, etc.

I am not familiar with Michigan State pension regulations. In Canada pensions, whether public or private, are treated similarly with respect to deductions and then payment. By this I mean when I pay into a pension plan I am allowed to treat this as a tax deduction which in turn normally reduces my nominal tax rate. Then when the time comes to collect or draw on my pension I pay income tax on the amount withdrawn.

The point I was trying to make about municipal government is that it is a creature of provincial legislation.

Edited March 9, 2011 by pinko

[CANADIEN]

The point I was trying to make about municipal government is that it is a creature of provincial legislation.

Political governments are a creature of provincial legislation indeed. Municipal councils are still ELECTED, which means that ultimately they work for US the people.

[Bryan]

There is also the little things about the capacity to tear union contracts apart... Legally binding contracts... Oh well... I just got my VISA bill; do I have the right to claim that I cannot pay and therefore I now owe them nothing?

Though it's not quite that simple, If your finances are in an legitimate "emergency" situation, you pretty much can abdicate your debt.

Michigan essentially is bankrupt. If they can't afford the union contracts, yes they should be able to walk away from them.

[pinko]

Though it's not quite that simple, If your finances are in an legitimate "emergency" situation, you pretty much can abdicate your debt.

Michigan essentially is bankrupt. If they can't afford the union contracts, yes they should be able to walk away from them.

Except Michigan isn't bankrupt. The Republican majority could tax those that provided the funds provided to them by the financial elite. This is a contrived crisis.

[CANADIEN]

Though it's not quite that simple, If your finances are in an legitimate "emergency" situation, you pretty much can abdicate your debt.

We are not talking about bankruptcy here. we are talking a party to a contract abrogating said contract and then rewriting the terms of that contract. Unless one wants to argue that a civil service union is akin to a creditor, the comparison does not hold water.

And no, I was not talking about going for bankruptcy (esepcially since I have no financial problems ), but mrather just deciding that I do not have to pay my bills and VISA has no recourse.

[Michael Hardner]

I accept that some states are in an emergency situation, and I believe that public employees should be reasonable, and that they should expect to receive less.

However, I don't accept that the workers alone are to blame. Management should take an equal amount of blame, and if radical steps are required for dealing with the workers, even more radical steps are required to deal with management.

[pinko]

I accept that some states are in an emergency situation, and I believe that public employees should be reasonable, and that they should expect to receive less.

However, I don't accept that the workers alone are to blame. Management should take an equal amount of blame, and if radical steps are required for dealing with the workers, even more radical steps are required to deal with management.

I notice you use the term "blame". Why should a union be blamed for expecting an employer to fulfill it's obligations?

[Michael Hardner]

I notice you use the term "blame". Why should a union be blamed for expecting an employer to fulfill it's obligations?

I'm talking about long term problems here, not any specific questions. Pension agreements are supposed to be honoured - whether it's Nortel or a public employer. Failing to do so is just wrong.

[pinko]

I'm talking about long term problems here, not any specific questions. Pension agreements are supposed to be honoured - whether it's Nortel or a public employer. Failing to do so is just wrong.

Pension legislation requires employers to properly fund pension plans. The burden for this problem rests with employers failing to meet these obligations.

[Michael Hardner]

Pension legislation requires employers to properly fund pension plans. The burden for this problem rests with employers failing to meet these obligations.

As I said, there are broader issues here. The political-management side of this needs to be addressed moving forward. If it's time for an overhaul, then both sides need to work together to come up with a new arrangement.

[pinko]

As I said, there are broader issues here. The political-management side of this needs to be addressed moving forward. If it's time for an overhaul, then both sides need to work together to come up with a new arrangement.

Which two sides are you referring to?

[pinko]

Tuesday, March 08, 2011

1:44 PM

Walker's office releases e-mail exchange with Dems

Gov. Scott Walker's office today released e-mails detailing talks with Senate Dems over his budget repair bill, including proposed tweaks to provisions on collective bargaining, union recertification votes and limits on public employee salary increases.

The e-mails include an LFB memo, dated Feb. 28, outlining a proposal that would have removed the provision of the repair bill tying wage increases to the consumer price index and a provision requiring a referendum to exceed the CPI for wage increases. The proposal would extend the term for collective bargaining agreements to two to three years, as opposed to the limit of one-year terms called for in the budget repair bill.

The proposal allows for collective bargaining of pension contributions three years after the effective date of the bill, but the contribution from employees could not be bargained to less than 4 percent.

The proposal would also loosen the requirements for union certification. Walker's bill proposed a certification vote annually, but the proposal moved that to every three years. The proposal would also push back the requirement for the initial vote on certification to 18 months after the effective date of the bill. Walker's proposal of required unions take certification votes in April, 2011.

The proposal does not specify any changes to union dues provisions in Walker's bill or other collective bargaining provisions.

The proposal also requires the Joint Finance Committee to hold a public hearing on changes to Medical Assistance programs authorized by the Department of Health Services.

A second proposal, dated March 3, retains collective bargaining for wages, length-of-service credit, and continuing education credit, plus a host of other economic issues like sick time, and overtime and vacations. The proposal also eliminates the CPI cap and referendum provisions.

The second proposal would set a term for collective bargaining agreements of one to two years. The initial certification vote would take place a year after the effective date of the bill, and would be required thereafter every three years.

The second proposal also requires that the governor appoint a 10-member commission to make recommendations to the Joint Finance Committee identifying items related to workplace conditions and safety that would be allowable subjects of collective bargaining.

The second proposal would also delete the provision in the repair bill that repeals the collective bargaining rights for UW Hospital and Clinic Authority employees.

The outline of a third proposal, dated Sunday, lists the repeal of collective bargaining rights for UW Hospital and Clinic Authority employees as "subject for further discussion" and includes many of the details from the previous proposals.

The e-mails also include counter-proposals from the governor's office.

See the emails here.

Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie said the e-mail communications were released due to numerous requests and are in addition to in-person meetings between key members of the guv's staff and Senate Democrats.

Sen. Bob Jauch's personal email address is redacted in the documents.

http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/03/walkers-office-releases-email-exchange.html

[Michael Hardner]

Which two sides are you referring to?

Management and labour.

[pinko]

Management and labour.

The problem with your position is that it neglects to recognize the fact that the decisions are being made by the Governor of Wisconsin with the backing of his Republican majority. If your scenario is to make any sense there needs to be meaningful negotiations between the Republicans and Democrats. I would expect if such negotiations took place one of the conditions on the Democrat side would see the Republicans dropping its proposal to strip bargaining rights from public sector employees.

FYI management and labour are many employers and a variety of unions. Apart from lobbying efforts they are excluded from the process I have described above.

Edited March 9, 2011 by pinko