Shwa Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 All over the news this morning, at least in the GTA. With all the complaints about immigrants not integrating into our society by members here, you'd think we would be way down the list. I guess not. In addition, I guess the Tory immigrant vote isn't as significant as it is made out to be. Canada ranked 3rd in integrating newcomers Scoring 89 points out of 100, Canada and the United States were tied for the top spot for their programs and laws in fighting discrimination and promoting equal opportunities.Despite a huge immigration backlog for family reunification, Canada came second in its efforts to reunite immigrants with loved ones abroad and provide their children, regardless of legal status, access to education. “We’ve introduced new education indicators. Education is a critical and important issue on immigrant performances. It helped move Canada up two spots in the ranking (from 2008),” said Jack Jedwab of the Association for Canadian Studies, the lead researcher from Canada. “Canada could have shot to the top if it’d scored better in policies, programs and legislative framework in political participation and advisory policies that involve immigrants.” Quote
DogOnPorch Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Sweden #1, eh? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
PIK Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Integrating into new canada, not old canada. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
scouterjim Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 All over the news this morning, at least in the GTA. With all the complaints about immigrants not integrating into our society by members here, you'd think we would be way down the list. I guess not. In addition, I guess the Tory immigrant vote isn't as significant as it is made out to be. Canada ranked 3rd in integrating newcomers Immigrants no longer integrate with other Canadians because the Liberals, in their years in power, told them they should keep their identities separate, and revel in their own culture. Doing otherwise wouldn't be politically correct, and if there is ANYTHING a Liberal fears, it is to be told they are NOT being politically correct. Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
Shwa Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Posted March 1, 2011 Immigrants no longer integrate with other Canadians because the Liberals, in their years in power, told them they should keep their identities separate, and revel in their own culture. Doing otherwise wouldn't be politically correct, and if there is ANYTHING a Liberal fears, it is to be told they are NOT being politically correct. What IS interesting is that we are ranked 3rd in the world and there all kinds of excuses made as to why this doesn't apply, is illegitimate study, can't be true, etc. Where's that good old Canadian self-deprecation? Oh wait, there it is... Quote
Guest American Woman Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 What's interesting about these polls is that it's only a matter of opinion as to what's "important." I happen to disagree that "newcomers" should immediately be given the same political voice/voting rights as citizens, and I wouldn't expect such rights as a newcomer if I were to emigrate. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 What's interesting about these polls is that it's only a matter of opinion as to what's "important." I happen to disagree that "newcomers" should immediately be given the same political voice/voting rights as citizens, and I wouldn't expect such rights as a newcomer if I were to emigrate. Newcomers aren't given that right. I don't think that happens anywhere actually. I don't think that option is even in question, really. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Mr.Canada Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Ethnic immigrants setting up homogeneous ghettos all over our major cities doesn't scream integration to me. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Guest American Woman Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Newcomers aren't given that right. I don't think that happens anywhere actually. I don't think that option is even in question, really. I realize newcomers aren't given that right, nor do I think they should be. However, from the article: However, Canada scored a disappointing 38 points and was ranked eighteenth in engaging newcomers in politics — largely due to the lack of political will to engage immigrants in the process. The study says non-citizens should be given the right to vote in local elections; 18 European countries have already extended this right. Quote
wyly Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Newcomers aren't given that right. I don't think that happens anywhere actually. I don't think that option is even in question, really. didn't you read the link? The study says non-citizens should be given the right to vote in local elections; 18 European countries have already extended this right.It also points out that 14 European Union member states and the U.S. have formal immigrant consultative bodies established for inputs in government policies — something Canada lacks. “Municipal issues are the most important and closest to people. Non-citizens should have a say in the future of the city,” said Leo Zuniga, coordinator of the I Vote Toronto Campaign, which lobbies to extend the voting rights to non-citizens in municipal elections. Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Ethnic immigrants setting up homogeneous ghettos all over our major cities doesn't scream integration to me. a couple of factors dominate where new immigrants live...1st-income, many come with very little resources that automatically directs them towards low income neighborhoods... 2nd-those coming with sufficient cash are most likely to accumulate where there is the best choice and availability in homes, new suburbs... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Michael Hardner Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 didn't you read the link? I did. AW refered to having the same rights as citizens. Voting in local elections doesn't pass that test. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Guest American Woman Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 I did. AW refered to having the same rights as citizens. Voting in local elections doesn't pass that test. I was speaking in regards to the article since that's the topic at hand. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 The study says non-citizens should be given the right to vote in local elections; 18 European countries have already extended this right.[/i] Ok, fair enough - to be clear, though, nobody is talking about giving them the exact same rights as citizens, as in immediate and full voting rights including national elections. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
guyser Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Ethnic immigrants setting up homogeneous ghettos all over our major cities doesn't scream integration to me. Ok, Perhaps you could name one ghetto in Ontario. Just one...thanks ! Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 Canada is also second in re-unification of families. We have a backlog only because of the generosity of our system - it's really a question of supply and demand. We are SO generous that we would NEVER be able to fulfil all the requests. And as for the two countries that are ahead of Canada overall - Portugal and Sweden - their population is made up of far less than 10% of immigrants. Canada is 20%.....so Canada has REALLY done a good job. As for integrating new Canadians into the political system......well, the "benchmarks" seem to be gauged against what the Europeans are doing....Canada needs no lessons from those countries. Britain, Germany and others are already "disowning" multiculturalism and unrest within their populations over the appeasement of foreigners. We'll continue down our own path, thank you very much. Quote Back to Basics
Muddy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 One has to wonder if we are such good guys when it comes to newcomers why all the beefing from them? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 1, 2011 Report Posted March 1, 2011 One has to wonder if we are such good guys when it comes to newcomers why all the beefing from them? What beefing ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 All over the news this morning, at least in the GTA. With all the complaints about immigrants not integrating into our society by members here, you'd think we would be way down the list. I guess not. I think you need to read more than the headlines, and apply a little critical thinking. The story said NOTHING about whether immigrants are or are not integrating. The report was in fact, entirely based on what programs the government has available, and how immigrant friendly they are. This study measures policy components and does not in any way, shape or form attempt to assess how successfully integrated a body of immigrants is. In addition, according to the news story, Sweden is number 1, indicating that the authors believe Sweden's system for dealing with and integrating newcomers is superior to anyone else's. The problem is that in reality Sweden has a lot of trouble with integrating newcomers, particularly from Muslim countries. There are a lot of suggestions, statements, and statistics all over the internet which say that Muslims in Sweden are not only not integrating but are criminally hostile to the native population. Sweden's rape rate, for example, has skyrocketed since they started bringing in Muslim immigrants, rising 400%, and is currently the highest in Europe, double the next highest - the UK. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Newcomers aren't given that right. I don't think that happens anywhere actually. I don't think that option is even in question, really. Yes, it is. In fact, it is one of the components of the study, and it is why we lose points, as compared to Sweden. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Ok, Perhaps you could name one ghetto in Ontario. Just one...thanks ! Jane/Finch in Toronto. Heatherington Avenue housing projects, home of the infamous Heatherington Crips, in Ottawa. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Shwa Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Posted March 2, 2011 I think you need to read more than the headlines, and apply a little critical thinking. The story said NOTHING about whether immigrants are or are not integrating. The report was in fact, entirely based on what programs the government has available, and how immigrant friendly they are. This study measures policy components and does not in any way, shape or form attempt to assess how successfully integrated a body of immigrants is. In defence of critical thinking can you supply cites to show that immigrants are not integrating here in Canada? Cause it seems to me - other than the odious presentism, which isn't critical thinking at all - we are doing a pretty good job of integrating immigrants and we always have. Hey it might not be up to some people's standards, but the report says we're third after all. In addition, according to the news story, Sweden is number 1, indicating that the authors believe Sweden's system for dealing with and integrating newcomers is superior to anyone else's. The problem is that in reality Sweden has a lot of trouble with integrating newcomers, particularly from Muslim countries. There are a lot of suggestions, statements, and statistics all over the internet which say that Muslims in Sweden are not only not integrating but are criminally hostile to the native population. Sweden's rape rate, for example, has skyrocketed since they started bringing in Muslim immigrants, rising 400%, and is currently the highest in Europe, double the next highest - the UK. Muslim schmuslim. The report is on immigration, not Muslim immigration. And even still, our Muslims are integrating nicely too. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 Yes, it is. In fact, it is one of the components of the study, and it is why we lose points, as compared to Sweden. I covered this earlier on the thread. The question I was talking about was equal rights for newcomers, including national voting rights, and that's not in play. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 In defence of critical thinking can you supply cites to show that immigrants are not integrating here in Canada? I am pointing out that the report, which you claim shows immigrants are integrating well, shows nothing of the sort. It is evidence of nothing other than how friendly to immigrants government programs are. In response to which you demand proof, as in a cite, that immigrants are not integrating? What kind of a cite do you imagine I would produce other than one from the Fraser Institute which you and others would refuse to read anyway because it's from the Fraser Institute. I'll tell you what I'd like to see. I'd like to see crime statistics on immigrants, not just immigrants in their first 3 years, but permanently. I'd like to see statistics on how many immigrants, in particular Muslims, send their children 'home' to find a mate. I'd like to see surveys from second generation immigrants, particularly Muslims, which says they have little interest in the old quarrels of their homeland, don't really speak the language much, and are more interested in Canada - and are becoming more secularized. Cause it seems to me - other than the odious presentism, which isn't critical thinking at all - we are doing a pretty good job of integrating immigrants and we always have. Hey it might not be up to some people's standards, but the report says we're third after all. No, it does not say any such thing. It says that government programs are immigrant friendly. And your opinion as to how well integrate immigrants are is open to debate. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Michael Hardner Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 No, it does not say any such thing. It says that government programs are immigrant friendly. And your opinion as to how well integrate immigrants are is open to debate. Don't you think that Canadian support of immigration is indicative of a system that works well ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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