wyly Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 so make more spots for certification or and/or train more doctors. seems simple enough but some level of government will have to put the cash forward to do so...there is no shortage of canadians attempting to get into medical school...training more MDs doesn't really help if the is no room for them to complete their residency requirements... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Or coalitions like GB, if there's a will there's 1/2 a dozen ways to do it, without that will there's no way... And having a single province Quebec dictate, or at least influence the Government of Canada, thanks to Moroney, just makes our system that much worse... Now if the Bloc were to run candidates across Canada I'd have on problem with them... Go Green... more democracy, proportional representation...I might even vote for the bloc if they ran across canada... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Wild Bill Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 so make more spots for certification or and/or train more doctors. It's not that simple! If you google a bit you'll learn the history of this problem, at least as it is here in Ontario. Bob Rae's NDP government first instituted this policy but it's not fair to blame him. The other two parties have been in power since and must have liked the idea, 'cuz they did bugger all to change it! You see, every doctor in Ontario gets a billing number for OHIP. (I'm sure other provinces have a similar setup). Health care costs had kept rising and rising and we were in a recession back then so revenues were falling and falling. Bob's solution was to limit the number of places for medical students in Universities, limiting the number of doctors graduating and thus limiting the number of billing numbers issued. Couple that with the fact that doctors billings are all capped so that when they reach the limit they will not get paid for seeing any more patients and you have effectively put limits on how much medicare is going to take from your budget. Doctors retire and die while the government controls the number of new graduates to replace them, while also capping how much it has to pay out in billings for them. This is the reason so many Ontarioans can't find a family doctor. There aren't enough of them anyway and besides, existing doctors are not going to take on more patients than will be paid for under the billing cap! The cap of course was sold to us dumb folks as a means to prevent rich doctors from gouging us! "Every one knows..." that doctors make too much money! If I recall correctly the cap was around $450K per year but the kicker is that it is a GROSS figure for running a doctor's entire practice, not his personal income, even though that was what was implied. Nobody thought about how he had to pay rent, buy equipment and supplies while also paying salaries to his staff. Worse yet, politicians are well aware that we are experiencing a wave of high numbers of patients from the Baby Boomers. We can try to attract and process as many immigrants as is practical but it won't make enough difference to change the graph curves. All the politicians have to do is obfuscate and delay while this wave works its way through the system. After 20 years or so we will start to experience a big lessening of the numbers, as our population falls. The problem will solve itself, as far as someone like McGuinty is concerned. Of course, those of us getting on in years that NEED doctor services will have a different opinion but as I said, if they can stall us off long enough... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
William Ashley Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) seems simple enough but some level of government will have to put the cash forward to do so...there is no shortage of canadians attempting to get into medical school...training more MDs doesn't really help if the is no room for them to complete their residency requirements... Well I think that is what Layton is proposing. More doctors ='s a willingness to have more doctors - what good is a government that can't plan for the future of medicine in the country. The only way provinces are going to have money for that is through more transfers to the provinces. Or lower federal income taxes and higher provincial income taxes. Cuba has lots of doctors... it is seen as a third world country --- maybe Canada just needs to take another approach to medicine. The Social Party has its own health agenda that improves the quality of health - the earnings of health innovators, and more supports for doctors, supplimenting shortage care with military doctors, and implementing social contracts to facilitate the needs of medical students - as well as foreign doctors to walk them through the process of medicine. Of course I also promote opening up the levies for private hospitals - and providing national health insurance rather than grant transfers to the provinces (this along side removing personal income taxes (and transfering earning tracking to a "2nd Bank branch of the central bank - transfering the CRA to the central bank - as well as have them manage divestment debt repayment rather than income syphoning on earnings - and monitoring corporate taxes while they are reduced annually and replaced with program offerings for corporations - and of course managing customs (imports/exports and overseeing fees for industrial grants/fees) amongst other things such as helping managing the bank - pursueing more investment related services and business asset management for the government. (I invision reshaping the CRA as back room bankers - while the public service is turned into bank tellers/clerks. http://williamashley.info/SOCIAL/SP/economicreform.htm Not exactly what harper and layton probably both invision - I think layton just wants to see the number of doctors increase for the aging population. Bigwig Conservatives apparently dont' want to spend more on health than they already are. The more doctors there are the higher medical costs, the more prescriptions, and the more expenses related to health. The conservatives probably already have doctors they arn't effected. How many Northern Canadians are in the conservative party adminitration? Any? That is it right there, the CPC is a party of Southern Alberta and little else where - Alberta already has private medicare. It can't identify with the rest of Canada it is ignorant of what 90% of Canada deals with. Canada is being so said administered by a very small elite class of Imperial Oil interests and little else. Edited February 21, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Wild Bill Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Cuba has lots of doctors... it is seen as a third world country --- maybe Canada just needs to take another approach to medicine. Yeah, Cuba has lots of doctors. Of course, they don't have any bandages and Tylenol runs about $20 a bottle on the black market! Have you ever talked to anyone who went to Cuba for a vacation and suffered an illness or an accident? Yes, Castro's system has produced a lot of doctors. They get to sit around in the hospitals with little or no resources so they can PRACTICE medicine! My best friend's wife still walks with a limp because of the primitive resources of the Cuban medical system. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
William Ashley Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Yeah, Cuba has lots of doctors. Of course, they don't have any bandages and Tylenol runs about $20 a bottle on the black market! Have you ever talked to anyone who went to Cuba for a vacation and suffered an illness or an accident? Yes, Castro's system has produced a lot of doctors. They get to sit around in the hospitals with little or no resources so they can PRACTICE medicine! My best friend's wife still walks with a limp because of the primitive resources of the Cuban medical system. What happened to her leg? - how would it be any different in Canada? Atleast she got emergency care. http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/ 10 years ago cuba only ranked 2 positions behind the US in health system rating. http://www.who.int/whr/2010/en/index.html Cuba is a bit behind Canada but not much. The US is still 2 position only. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html The bottom line on these figures (that are dated) is that its not how much you spend, it is how well you spend. Colombia is a whole 8 positions ahead of Canada in that rating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Colombia Or take the UK as an example of out performing Canada while having lower costs. Edited February 21, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
wyly Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 My best friend's wife still walks with a limp because of the primitive resources of the Cuban medical system. I walk with a limp despite canada's best medical resources...you don't know your friends wife would've had better results here... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GWiz Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Posted February 21, 2011 What happened to her leg? - how would it be any different in Canada? Atleast she got emergency care. http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/ 10 years ago cuba only ranked 2 positions behind the US in health system rating. http://www.who.int/whr/2010/en/index.html Cuba is a bit behind Canada but not much. The US is still 2 position only. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html The bottom line on these figures (that are dated) is that its not how much you spend, it is how well you spend. Colombia is a whole 8 positions ahead of Canada in that rating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Colombia Or take the UK as an example of out performing Canada while having lower costs. Truth be told, better Cuba than GB in a lot of cases... Yet when coming to Canada GB Docs get a pass while Cuban (or from almost anywhere else) Docs drive taxis or work construction... Kinda seems like a bit of wasted talent to me... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Wild Bill Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I walk with a limp despite canada's best medical resources...you don't know your friends wife would've had better results here... Yes, I do know! I heard it from her own lips! They had taken a cheap Cuban vacation. She was involved in an accident on a rented "moped" and severely injured her leg. First off, her husband (my best friend) had great difficulty getting help. No ambulance service! He managed to get some help from some ordinary Cubans. It should be stressed that while the official resources were scant the Cuban people themselves were extraordinarily kind and helpful! The problem at the hospital was that her fracture was complicated. The hospital did not have modern xray equipment or the facilities to properly set the wound. Lot's of doctors but not even enough effective pain killers! She spent 2 days in severe pain lying in a bed until my friend could get things arranged to have her flown home. Once here, doctors opened up her cast and found her leg had not been properly set. They were able to correct much of the problem but she will forever have a bit of a limp. Needless to say, they have never cared to risk another Cuban vacation. As I had said, they loved the people but had never even thought about the lack of basic medical resources. Many people routinely bring "care packages" of toilet paper, perfume, toothpaste, shampoos and lots of other things to give as tips or gifts to Cubans during their holiday, knowing how difficult it is to source such things on the island. Most never think that basic medical supplies like first aid products and pain relievers are also high on the list of "wanted" items. Never forget that Cuba lives under a communist system. This doesn't mean that everything is bad or doesn't work. What it means is that everything is under central planning and priorities are often more political than practical. Communist economies are never known for being extremely flush with money. It's more normal for everyone to be "equally poor". Just as the old USSR was famous for harvesting bumper crops of vegetables only to have the produce rot in unrefrigerated railroad box cars, sitting for weeks at some station, Castro's economy had and has similar problems. Educating doctors is one thing and his government can claim credit. Keeping them supplied with what they need to PRACTISE medicine is something else! Of course, he can always blame the lack of supplies on the American embargo! Anyhow, I've always known that we Canadians seem to have some very idealistic ideas about how things are in Cuba, ideas that really are based only on the tourist areas and not on actual experience with how Cuba works "on the street". We fly down, get a tan, buy some trinkets for an inflated price, give the hotel staff a few dollars as tips, chug a few mai tai's and fly home! There's a lot more to see behind the curtain. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
jbg Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Now we'll see how badly Harper wants an election OR how badly Layton doesn't want one... Layton is hardly the only moving part on this one. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Don't need to with polling this good. Better to Govern like it already is a majority, and force the opposition to vote down something that will burn them in an election that they force on themselves. The way Clark governed as if he had a majority? </sarcasm> All kidding aside that's what Harper's done successfully since February 2006. Granted his moves haven't been as bold as they could have been but his mandate deriving from the voters was slender. Basically he's dared the Opposition innumerable times to pull the trigger and they've responded by "walkouts", abstentions, or statements that "Canada doesn't want an election". Dion and Ignatieff have both made evasion an art form. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GWiz Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Posted February 21, 2011 Layton is hardly the only moving part on this one. Did you not notice there were 2 names there? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) The way Clark governed as if he had a majority? </sarcasm> All kidding aside that's what Harper's done successfully since February 2006. Granted his moves haven't been as bold as they could have been but his mandate deriving from the voters was slender. Basically he's dared the Opposition innumerable times to pull the trigger and they've responded by "walkouts", abstentions, or statements that "Canada doesn't want an election". Dion and Ignatieff have both made evasion an art form. Funny way to "dare" the Opposition (2x)... Harper goes prorogue - Parliamentary scrutiny may be tedious, but democracies cannot afford to dispense with it CANADIAN ministers, it seems, are a bunch of Gerald Fords. Like the American president, who could not walk and chew gum at the same time, they cannot, apparently, cope with Parliaments deliberations while dealing with the countrys economic troubles and the challenge of hosting the Winter Olympic games. This was the argument put forward by the spokesman for Stephen Harper, the Conservative prime minister, after his boss on December 30th abruptly suspended, or prorogued, Canadas Parliament until March 3rd. - Edited February 22, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
jbg Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Funny way to "dare" the Opposition (2x)... Harper goes prorogue Parliamentary scrutiny may be tedious, but democracies cannot afford to dispense with it CANADIAN ministers, it seems, are a bunch of Gerald Fords. Like the American president, who could not walk and chew gum at the same time, they cannot, apparently, cope with Parliament’s deliberations while dealing with the country’s economic troubles and the challenge of hosting the Winter Olympic games. This was the argument put forward by the spokesman for Stephen Harper, the Conservative prime minister, after his boss on December 30th abruptly suspended, or “prorogued”, Canada’s Parliament until March 3rd. You're digging back thirteen (13) months for this non-story? How often did Chretien prorogue? If the Opposition really didn't like it why didn't they vote down the post-prorogue Speech From the Throne? Or failing that the budget that was tabled last March or April? Wouldn't you really be crying foul if he used the Olympics glow as the backdrop for an election if Harper just advised the GG to drop the writ that day rather than prorogue? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GWiz Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Posted February 22, 2011 You're digging back thirteen (13) months for this non-story? How often did Chretien prorogue? If the Opposition really didn't like it why didn't they vote down the post-prorogue Speech From the Throne? Or failing that the budget that was tabled last March or April? Wouldn't you really be crying foul if he used the Olympics glow as the backdrop for an election if Harper just advised the GG to drop the writ that day rather than prorogue? Yup... 0 Ummm, Ignatieff said NO to the NDP idea of a coalition? The Canadian public? Wasting millions on an unwanted election that would change nothing? Need I go on? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) CANADIAN ministers, it seems, are a bunch of Gerald Fords. Like the American president, who could not walk and chew gum at the same time,... Interesting, as were it not for that same president, Canada would not have been added to the G-7. I guess he stopped chewing gum long enough to do that. You can thank President Ford in English or French. Edited February 22, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Posted February 22, 2011 Interesting, as were it not for that same president, Canada would not have been added to the G-7. I guess he stopped chewing gum long enough to do that. You can thank President Ford in English or French. 1. (that wasn't even me saying that, please attribute) Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 1. (that wasn't even me saying that, please attribute) I know.....it was just fun too kick you in the balls from a dead president's grave. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bryan Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Yes, I do know! I heard it from her own lips! They had taken a cheap Cuban vacation. She was involved in an accident on a rented "moped" and severely injured her leg. First off, her husband (my best friend) had great difficulty getting help. No ambulance service! He managed to get some help from some ordinary Cubans. It should be stressed that while the official resources were scant the Cuban people themselves were extraordinarily kind and helpful! The problem at the hospital was that her fracture was complicated. The hospital did not have modern xray equipment or the facilities to properly set the wound. Lot's of doctors but not even enough effective pain killers! She spent 2 days in severe pain lying in a bed until my friend could get things arranged to have her flown home. Once here, doctors opened up her cast and found her leg had not been properly set. They were able to correct much of the problem but she will forever have a bit of a limp. Where in Cuba were they? People I know who needed medical care while I was in Cuba last month (coincidentally also for a scooter accident) received excellent care in Santa Lucia. They were very pleased. Quote
GWiz Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Posted February 22, 2011 Where in Cuba were they? People I know who needed medical care while I was in Cuba last month (coincidentally also for a scooter accident) received excellent care in Santa Lucia. They were very pleased. No health care system is perfect, but, from what I've seen and heard too, I'd say Cuba's health care is overall quite good... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Posted February 22, 2011 I know.....it was just fun too kick you in the balls from a dead president's grave. Funny, I didn't feel a thing, hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell down... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Funny, I didn't feel a thing, hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell down... HeHe..that's even funnier...are you saying you have no balls? That's OK. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Posted February 22, 2011 HeHe..that's even funnier...are you saying you have no balls? That's OK. Only my wife knows for sure, except for my ex-wife who knows too... Then there's my sons, so I wouldn't want you to needlessly worry... So you're OK after falling down when you missed my balls? Your head seems a little swollen today... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Only my wife knows for sure, except for my ex-wife who knows too... Then there's my sons, so I wouldn't want you to needlessly worry... Well...gee..you're squealing pretty good, so I must have connected with something. President Ford has gone back to the big sleep. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 Well...gee..you're squealing pretty good, so I must have connected with something. President Ford has gone back to the big sleep. That's not "squealing" that's me laughing at you being flat on your BACK... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
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