Layton meets with Harper

[punked]

Yes, I do know! I heard it from her own lips!

They had taken a cheap Cuban vacation. She was involved in an accident on a rented "moped" and severely injured her leg.

First off, her husband (my best friend) had great difficulty getting help. No ambulance service! He managed to get some help from some ordinary Cubans. It should be stressed that while the official resources were scant the Cuban people themselves were extraordinarily kind and helpful!

The problem at the hospital was that her fracture was complicated. The hospital did not have modern xray equipment or the facilities to properly set the wound. Lot's of doctors but not even enough effective pain killers!

She spent 2 days in severe pain lying in a bed until my friend could get things arranged to have her flown home. Once here, doctors opened up her cast and found her leg had not been properly set. They were able to correct much of the problem but she will forever have a bit of a limp.

Needless to say, they have never cared to risk another Cuban vacation. As I had said, they loved the people but had never even thought about the lack of basic medical resources.

Many people routinely bring "care packages" of toilet paper, perfume, toothpaste, shampoos and lots of other things to give as tips or gifts to Cubans during their holiday, knowing how difficult it is to source such things on the island. Most never think that basic medical supplies like first aid products and pain relievers are also high on the list of "wanted" items.

Never forget that Cuba lives under a communist system. This doesn't mean that everything is bad or doesn't work. What it means is that everything is under central planning and priorities are often more political than practical. Communist economies are never known for being extremely flush with money. It's more normal for everyone to be "equally poor". Just as the old USSR was famous for harvesting bumper crops of vegetables only to have the produce rot in unrefrigerated railroad box cars, sitting for weeks at some station, Castro's economy had and has similar problems. Educating doctors is one thing and his government can claim credit. Keeping them supplied with what they need to PRACTISE medicine is something else!

Of course, he can always blame the lack of supplies on the American embargo!

Anyhow, I've always known that we Canadians seem to have some very idealistic ideas about how things are in Cuba, ideas that really are based only on the tourist areas and not on actual experience with how Cuba works "on the street". We fly down, get a tan, buy some trinkets for an inflated price, give the hotel staff a few dollars as tips, chug a few mai tai's and fly home!

There's a lot more to see behind the curtain.

You do realize the main problem to Cuba's money and resource problem isn't its communist government but that they are frozen out by the place which supplies all of North America with money and goods right? I mean honestly that they still do so well after the last USSR oil tanker left in 91 speaks wonders to the Cuban peoples efforts and knowhow. Seriously apples to apples oranges to oranges.

[M.Dancer]

You do realize the main problem to Cuba's money and resource problem isn't its communist government but that they are frozen out by the place which supplies all of North America with money and goods right? I mean honestly that they still do so well after the last USSR oil tanker left in 91 speaks wonders to the Cuban peoples efforts and knowhow. Seriously apples to apples oranges to oranges.

Nonsense. They trade with south america which is a far larger market and they trade with north america as well.

[M.Dancer]

Exports:

$3.311 billion (2010 est.)

country comparison to the world: 120

$2.879 billion (2009 est.)

Exports - commodities:

sugar, nickel, tobacco, fish, medical products, citrus, coffee

Exports - partners:

China 25.68%, Canada 20.31%, Spain 6.79%, Netherlands 4.53% (2009)

Imports:

$10.25 billion (2010 est.)

country comparison to the world: 88

$8.91 billion (2009 est.)

Imports - commodities:

petroleum, food, machinery and equipment, chemicals

Imports - partners:

Venezuela 30.51%, China 15.48%, Spain 8.3%, US 6.87% (2009)

[punked]

Nonsense. They trade with south america which is a far larger market and they trade with north america as well.

Not really what I am saying if they didn't export they would be a lot worse the problem is an economic one. The US is roughly 15% of the world economy so it is simple supply and Demand there is less demand on Cuba so they sell their supply cheaper.

BTW South America is a far larger market then the North America in what way? This can be taken in many ways but if you are saying they have more buying power which is what drives prices of goods I think you are off. If you are saying they are growing faster or they have more people then yah I would agree with you but still apples to apples here.

I like your export numbers they around the same as the money Cuba gets from tourism which is what really hurts Cuba. Who cares if you have trading partners when you make all your money in services and the largest and richest market wont let the people closes to you spend their money on your island, they are just 90 miles away but instead Cuba had to have people fight in from Canada and Europe. Your assessment of Cuba Economy is dated in the 1980s thinking and doesn't take into account the fact the largest growth sector is tourism.

Edited March 1, 2011 by punked

[GWiz]

Not really what I am saying if they didn't export they would be a lot worse the problem is an economic one. The US is roughly 15% of the world economy so it is simple supply and Demand there is less demand on Cuba so they sell their supply cheaper.

BTW South America is a far larger market then the North America in what way? This can be taken in many ways but if you are saying they have more buying power which is what drives prices of goods I think you are off. If you are saying they are growing faster or they have more people then yah I would agree with you but still apples to apples here.

I like your export numbers they around the same as the money Cuba gets from tourism which is what really hurts Cuba. Who cares if you have trading partners when you make all your money in services and the largest and richest market wont let the people closes to you spend their money on your island, they are just 90 miles away but instead Cuba had to have people fight in from Canada and Europe. Your assessment of Cuba Economy is dated in the 1980s thinking and doesn't take into account the fact the largest growth sector is tourism.

Cuba's a nice place to visit (and I have) but I wouldn't want to live there...

I like CANADA, it's my home, and like Cuba we have some problems, so the question is will Harper win or will Layton?

[punked]

Cuba's a nice place to visit (and I have) but I wouldn't want to live there...

I like CANADA, it's my home, and like Cuba we have some problems, so the question is will Harper win or will Layton?

That is beside the point I was making.

[GWiz]

That is beside the point I was making.

I know, but it is the point of this thread right?

[GWiz]

Why don't the NDPers on here like this thread?

Is it the side of Layton you don't like to admit?

Did getting "shut out" in the last by-elections make Layton do this or was it something else?

[Shakeyhands]

I took part in an NDP telephone town hall last week with Chris Buckley (Candidate for Oshawa) and Chris Charlton (MP for Hamilton Mountain I believe) and wanted to ask why Mr Layton was going to prop up Harper for a few scraps, when in my opinion he'd be better off negotiating with Ignatief. oddly enough they didn't get to my question during the call and when I left the message for one or both to get back to me with an answer, no call back.

I think they are embarrassed that this is happening, surely they both should have been able to answer that question.

I have a question that won't neccessarily fit in to the questions = policy catagory. In the last federal election in 2008, The NDP captured 37 seats and the Liberals captured 77 (with the weakest leader they have ever seen) leading to yet another Harper Minority. In Oshawa the center to left vote was split leading to Mr Carrie winning the seat. This happened in many ridings across our countries

I've heard all kinds of poll questions on this call and nice answers...and requests for donations and volunteers ... BUT.... Despite all the vitirol, and from all reports, Mr Layton intends to back Mr Flahertys budget in March further extending this government for what amounts to a few scraps... what is the feeling of the NDP, both on the Hill and here locally of working with the Liberals to ensure this government not only falls but is also replaced by one lead by a center left party who will make most of the issues on this call like renewable energy and a national child care initiative a priority?

[Evening Star]

GWiz, I don't really have anything against this thread. I just don't have that much to add. I would tend to oppose Layton making a deal with Harper if it means some BS deal where we increase spending and reduce corporate taxes at the same time. However, what I've read does not necessarily suggest that that's what's going on. (AFAIK, Layton did bring up corporate taxes when they met.) I also don't think that Layton should refuse to even talk to Harper. I'm waiting to see how it plays out.

My suspicion, honestly, was that Layton mostly wanted to get media coverage for some of his major kitchen-table policy proposals. As such, it worked.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Evening Star

[madmax]

I took part in an NDP telephone town hall last week with Chris Buckley (Candidate for Oshawa) and Chris Charlton (MP for Hamilton Mountain I believe) and wanted to ask why Mr Layton was going to prop up Harper for a few scraps, when in my opinion he'd be better off negotiating with Ignatief.

I didn't know that the NDP did town halls on the telephone. Thats pretty cool. I'd be curious to know how many were involved. Regardless, you make a few assumptions.

1) That Layton or the NDP are going to prop up Harper for Scraps.

2) That the Liberals/Ignatieff are interested in Negotiation.

If Ignatieff were interested in Negotiation he has a blackberry and laytons parlimentary address.

Quite Frankly, I don't think the NDP are a cheap date for the Conservatives. And the Liberals have decided to stop sleeping with the Cons. The BQ are in dreamland.

It means election, unless you think that Harper is going to give the NDP what they want?

I think Harper wants an election more.

I don't believe any NDPer is embarrassed Layton is talking to Harper. However the NDP , unlike the Liberals, do not have the luxury of propping up a government for nothing in return for the people.

[punked]

I didn't know that the NDP did town halls on the telephone. Thats pretty cool. I'd be curious to know how many were involved. Regardless, you make a few assumptions.

1) That Layton or the NDP are going to prop up Harper for Scraps.

2) That the Liberals/Ignatieff are interested in Negotiation.

If Ignatieff were interested in Negotiation he has a blackberry and laytons parlimentary address.

Quite Frankly, I don't think the NDP are a cheap date for the Conservatives. And the Liberals have decided to stop sleeping with the Cons. The BQ are in dreamland.

It means election, unless you think that Harper is going to give the NDP what they want?

I think Harper wants an election more.

I don't believe any NDPer is embarrassed Layton is talking to Harper. However the NDP , unlike the Liberals, do not have the luxury of propping up a government for nothing in return for the people.

The NDP has done a bunch of these they usually get 10,000-15,000 on the line for the first 15 minutes.

As for the prop up the government talk it is a bunch of Liberals who clearly don't see the writing on the wall. The NDP has three new advertisings out they are talking the fight the air waves and all I see is crickets from the Liberals. What a bunch of BS I bet we see these Liberals drop off the boards after the Liberals get the "don't want to lose my seat flu" as we have when the Liberals have pushed the NDP over the years. See these guys appear their party makes them eat so much crow they have to change their name on the boards or move on.

[GWiz]

The NDP has done a bunch of these they usually get 10,000-15,000 on the line for the first 15 minutes.

As for the prop up the government talk it is a bunch of Liberals who clearly don't see the writing on the wall. The NDP has three new advertisings out they are talking the fight the air waves and all I see is crickets from the Liberals. What a bunch of BS I bet we see these Liberals drop off the boards after the Liberals get the "don't want to lose my seat flu" as we have when the Liberals have pushed the NDP over the years. See these guys appear their party makes them eat so much crow they have to change their name on the boards or move on.