Topaz Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 $46,928,459 is the bill the Canadian taxpayers pay to protect the Harper family. It cost $681,334 for the cabinet ministers and VIP's. No one would deny security to the PM but why so high for two year protection? http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/02/16/17301906.html Quote
Smallc Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 Because he decides his own security requirements. Another fact filled thread, brought to you by Topaz. Quote
William Ashley Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Can't someone just register him and his family members guns (after they pass firearms testing) and give a budget for some bullets and leave it at that. What type of man can't defend his family and his home without 50 million of security? Doesn't he already get a free cell phone? Hello press 911. Or does someone live in an insecure country? Judging by this Canada needs about 450 trillion in security spending to be secure. 5 bucks someone with a high power rifle could take the guy out any day of the week too. Actually I'm willing to bet $400 (maybe not any day but any day he does something other than stay at bunker kilbride. I'm not suggesting someone try this... but I'm willing to bet it could be done with a small personal budget. Totally negating the outrageous security expenses. It is reported that Obama cost $200 million in security costs for his visit to mumbai - whether that is true or not. Renta cops could probably do as much. when was the last time someone tried to do anything but light their lawn on fire? (I can't remember if they actually did light the lawn on fire.) That's got to be close enough for an RPG. Like the ones they found in Vancover in the ditch LAW. I just have this feeling like an organized attempt would succeed even with spending a whole bunch of money. By the way, what ever happened to that guy? Edited February 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Mr.Canada Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I don't remember reading about this outrage when the Liberals were in power. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
William Ashley Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I don't remember reading about this outrage when the Liberals were in power. He cost more than them. also what is he going to do once he is out of office? maybe he should start practicing. Or do HARPER DAYS you know every now and then everyone can take a day off 160 billion of debt accumulation is a lot.. that is money being borrowed. trying downsizing your own departmental staffs. YET hey lets take a look PMO staffing increase PCO staffing increase CABINET staffing increase.. geuss who should cut some of the most expensive jobs in canada. talk about hypocracy. This is inventive measures: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Rae_days Maybe this could be applied to mps in parliament? Hmm? or PMO/PCO/CABINET.. maybe they could start with the days they arn't working in those places. and by work I mean work not plotting to commit offences and violating the constitution. Edited February 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
g_bambino Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 Because he decides his own security requirements. Another fact filled thread, brought to you by Topaz. I'm not going to dispute you on Topaz's consistency, but the ever-increasing presidentialisation of the prime minister has been noted before. The prime minister's motorcade is now vastly bigger than even the governor general's. If $47 million really is the budget for the security of the prime minister and his family, it's nearly the same as the annual cost of the entire Canadian monarchy, including the offices of the governor general and lieutenant governors, their residences, their travel and security, and all the royal tours and security for the Royal Family put together! Quote
Smallc Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I realize that, but as with the Governor General, it isn't the PM that decides their own security. That is at the discretion of the RCMP. Quote
GostHacked Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 $46,928,459 is the bill the Canadian taxpayers pay to protect the Harper family. It cost $681,334 for the cabinet ministers and VIP's. No one would deny security to the PM but why so high for two year protection? http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/02/16/17301906.html Because he is scared. Simple as that. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I realize that, but as with the Governor General, it isn't the PM that decides their own security. That is at the discretion of the RCMP. They don't want to hear the truth, which one more time and let's everybody sing along......the RCMP define VIP security. I actually know an RCMP member who worked VIP security, sometimes including PM security. Of course, everybody knows that the RCMP are recruited with a political bias, all the Liberal Mounties were fired five years ago and all new Mounties must swear allegiance to Harper in a secret ceremony. Quote The government should do something.
Molly Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I don't remember reading about this outrage when the Liberals were in power. None of the rest of us does, either... but then, how much does it cost to buy a soapstone carving for the missus? Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Molly Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Let's see.... 100 grand per cop makes 470 cop-years. Drop say 70 for round numbers to cover holidays and sick days and whatever, leaves a pool of 400 fully available for 5 shifts/week, to cover 21 shifts/week... 2000 divided by 21 makes about........ 100 gendarmes guarding the PM at any given time of the day or night? No excuses if he gets popped with a pie. Edited February 17, 2011 by Molly Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Keepitsimple Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 As has been pointed out, the RCMP decides what and how much security is needed.....but it's not as simple as adding up his protection contingent. Domestically, everytime Harper goes somewhere in Canada, there would have to be a security and threat evaluation based on that location. Internationally, who knows to what ends they would have to go to ensure the safety of the PM and family.I think it goes far beyond just the cops that surround him. Quote Back to Basics
Molly Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) As has been pointed out, the RCMP decides what and how much security is needed.....but it's not as simple as adding up his protection contingent. Domestically, everytime Harper goes somewhere in Canada, there would have to be a security and threat evaluation based on that location. Internationally, who knows to what ends they would have to go to ensure the safety of the PM and family.I think it goes far beyond just the cops that surround him. Obviously. (What? Do I have to add tongue in cheek, and not just ?) The excercize does add some perspective, though. What services could you cover with round-the-clock wages for 100 well-paid souls? Edited February 17, 2011 by Molly Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Saipan Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I'm not going to dispute you on Topaz's consistency, but the ever-increasing presidentialisation of the prime minister has been noted before. So what exactly has changed? The prime minister's motorcade is now vastly bigger than even the governor general's. Who really cares about the G.G.? Really an ornament. But it does one remind of Rosi O'Donnell. She wants a gun for her body guard. But no gun for anyone else. No, no, guns are bad And then comes the near $130,000 expenses of NDP Howard Hampton v.s Premier Mike Harris' of $16,000 Quote
g_bambino Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Who really cares about the G.G.? Really an ornament. An ornament without which the prime minister, with his motorcade, cortège, and Mountie bodyguards couldn't have parliament prorogued. At least I'll now know what to point to the next time anyone bitches about the cost of our monarchy. [+] Edited February 17, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I can't think of a small non-issue than this. Needless to say, this will have as much impact as the colour of the PM's tie during the debates. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Let's see.... 100 grand per cop makes 470 cop-years. Drop say 70 for round numbers to cover holidays and sick days and whatever, leaves a pool of 400 fully available for 5 shifts/week, to cover 21 shifts/week... 2000 divided by 21 makes about........ 100 gendarmes guarding the PM at any given time of the day or night? No excuses if he gets popped with a pie. 100k is the salary. You can usually add another 50% for benefits. Then there are the costs of equipping them. They need alarm systems to monitor, guns, cameras and monitors, cars and radios and other equipment. There are forms to fill out, so computers to be used, etc. etc, plus the internal services needing to be provided for them, payroll clerks, supervisors, etc. You can probably figure 200k is more like the total cost per man. Let's say there are what, ten cops guarding 24 Sussex Drive and the grounds? I really don't know but it's a nice round figure. To have ten cops there you need three shifts, plus cops to work on holidays, when others are sick, etc. So you're talking at least 40 cops to cover the duty there. At 200k each. That' 80 million right there. Now obviously since the figures given were lower than this I guess there are fewer cops guarding Sussex drive, or they're paid less money. But you get the picture. It doesn't take long for the money to go. And we haven't even brought in the motorcade, the cops at work, the travels abroad, etc. Edited February 17, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I'm not going to dispute you on Topaz's consistency, but the ever-increasing presidentialisation of the prime minister has been noted before. The prime minister's motorcade is now vastly bigger than even the governor general's. The Governor General is a figurehead. I don't think she even has a motorcade routinely. Further, how much bigger is Harper's motorcade than Chretien's was? Do you even know? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
g_bambino Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 The Governor General is a figurehead. A figurehead our system of government can't do without. [H]ow much bigger is Harper's motorcade than Chretien's was? I don't particularly care how much. The point is that, since Trudeau's days in the office, prime ministers have become ever-more presidential. The size of their motorcades is just an illustration of that fact. (It's a phenomenon not limited to just Canada; the same has been said about the Prime Minister of the UK.) Quote
Mr.Canada Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 $46,928,459 is the bill the Canadian taxpayers pay to protect the Harper family. It cost $681,334 for the cabinet ministers and VIP's. No one would deny security to the PM but why so high for two year protection? http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/02/16/17301906.html Wild eyed Muslims who wish to chop peoples heads off because they want to live free and refuse to submit to Allah. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
g_bambino Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 Wild eyed Muslims who wish to chop peoples heads off because they want to live free and refuse to submit to Allah. What? Quote
Molly Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 100k is the salary. You can usually add another 50% for benefits. Then there are the costs of equipping them. They need alarm systems to monitor, guns, cameras and monitors, cars and radios and other equipment. There are forms to fill out, so computers to be used, etc. etc, plus the internal services needing to be provided for them, payroll clerks, supervisors, etc. You can probably figure 200k is more like the total cost per man. Let's say there are what, ten cops guarding 24 Sussex Drive and the grounds? I really don't know but it's a nice round figure. To have ten cops there you need three shifts, plus cops to work on holidays, when others are sick, etc. So you're talking at least 40 cops to cover the duty there. At 200k each. That' 80 million right there. Now obviously since the figures given were lower than this I guess there are fewer cops guarding Sussex drive, or they're paid less money. But you get the picture. It doesn't take long for the money to go. And we haven't even brought in the motorcade, the cops at work, the travels abroad, etc. Fair enough. Now... 40 cops X $200,000 each = $8 million, not $80 million, soooooo... um.... what about the other $39 mil? Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Scotty Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I don't particularly care how much. The point is that, since Trudeau's days in the office, prime ministers have become ever-more presidential. The size of their motorcades is just an illustration of that fact. (It's a phenomenon not limited to just Canada; the same has been said about the Prime Minister of the UK.) Canada was a different place in Trudeau's time. Until the FLQ came along, anyway, it was assumed that the PM could pretty much walk down the street with maybe one bodyguard and he'd be fine. Violence and terrorism have significantly grown since then, and the last time I recall reading about a head of government walking alone down a street was in Sweden in 1986. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
fellowtraveller Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) The RCMP have staff in every major Canadian city who do only VIP security. Their main jobs are to keep track of known threats and loons, interview new loons as they reveal themselves, provide liason with local police(who will be a much bigger expense than the PMs own security detail), provide close security when the VIP actually visits and coordinate closely with the dedicated security team for the VIP, who actually travel with him/her. The PMs family would obviously also have 24/7 coverage. For example, security planning (and spending) for the royal honeymoon visit this spring - to Ottawa, PEI, Alberta and NWT- will already be well underway. That will cost $50 million on its own, not counting the costs of the Brits. Edited February 17, 2011 by fellowtraveller Quote The government should do something.
Scotty Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 Fair enough. Now... 40 cops X $200,000 each = $8 million, not $80 million, soooooo... um.... what about the other $39 mil? It appears my future career as a mathematician is in serious doubt. But you get the idea. So that's $8 million just to protect 24 Sussex. That does not count all those squads of mounties at the Langevin Building or at Parliament Hill, or accompanying him all over the country and all over the world, or the threat analysis or investigations of all the people at the various locales where he would be traveling. I don't know this to be the case, for example, but I would assume that if the prime minister was going to be eating somewhere the RCMP would probably look into who was working in the kitchen, just as a for instance. In any building where he was going to make a speech they'd probably be checking all the employees and possible entries, probably use bomb sniffing dogs beforehand, set up communications, guard posts, metal detectors, etc. etc. Given how many times the PM moves around that would come to an awful lot of money. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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