Police Brutality

[MysTerri]

Should we ask that anyone who wishes to become a police officer in Canada, to first complete 500 hours of volunteer training at a mental health facility, so that they can develop a non-violent approach toward suspects in the future? If this had been a requirement in the past, Dziekanski would still be alive, as would Ian Bush, Michael Vann Hubbard, Frank Paul, and a host of others who have died at the hands of officers ignorant of the methods we insist our mental health professionals use everyday. You would have to live in a cloud to not agree that police are prone to escalate a situation and possess no skills in DE-escalating a situation, resulting in needless deaths in far too many circumstances.

Edited February 13, 2011 by MysTerri

[Mr.Canada]

A few mishaps vs the thousands the police arrest? I'm fine with the way it is now.

Most suspects that are arrested are done so using non violent means.

It's rare that police need to use force at all.

If people listened to the police commands they wouldn't get hurt. Very simple. Listen and obey the police officers and you wont get hurt.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[William Ashley]

Should we ask that anyone who wishes to become a police officer in Canada, to first complete 500 hours of volunteer training at a mental health facility, so that they can develop a non-violent approach toward suspects in the future? If this had been a requirement in the past, Dziekanski would still be alive, as would Ian Bush, Michael Vann Hubbard, Frank Paul, and a host of others who have died at the hands of officers ignorant of the methods we insist our mental health professionals use everyday. You would have to live in a cloud to not agree that police are prone to escalate a situation and possess no skills in DE-escalating a situation, resulting in needless deaths in far too many circumstances.

Mental health facilities arn't non violent abuse is regular. Instiuttions have security that are used to physically force resolutions on people. People are confined and drugged against their wills.

Yet you say "non violent"

Violence is used.

They are incredibly abusive and these are places where people even have their legal rights stripped from them without their consent.

I think you maybe need to spend some times in those places before you make such stupid statements as non violent resolution is used by the mental health system.

peace officers and site security are already used in mental health facilities.

Edited February 14, 2011 by William Ashley

[Keepitsimple]

No.

[Saipan]

Yes, police in Canada could learn valuable skills from mental health professionals.

And mental health professionals could learn valuable skills about how to handle bank robbery or hostage taking.

[William Ashley]

On secondary review of this thread I am led to believe what would likely develop is more purchase of tranquilizer guns when some of these young pups become top dogs in forces with the capacity to buy force equipment.

See the difference between non lethal and lethal is generally dose and the amount of time it takes to immobilize the person.

"Violence" resolves things faster, the last thing you need is work place stress and danger.

They are absolutists.

Basically it is two sides of the same coin - only one is more long term and "behaviour modification" by drugging. The other tends just to use force to resolve a situation they don't want to talk about because they are usually wrong ethically. They are only there to control a situation not counsel people and resolve problems. They have quotas you know. You can't be in two places at once, what if another call comes in, or they get behind on their work schedule. Fact is police hate paper work, so the whole embedded in mental health stream is just not going to be enjoyed by them (actually it presents the problem of police being able to take advantage of people who are often rendered unverifiable due to being able to say "they arn't right in the head" therefore their position isn't valid. It will probably lead to even more mentally disturbed police also. Bear in mind a lot of cops are twisted and very split brain (it is pretty much an occupational need - the public sees one side on the other end of the rabbit hole lies the other "hyde personality"). Both use force before communication so it is redundant it is about getting things done in time for their break not about case working, you have case workers for that. And no the answer isn't to place them with case workers, they'd probably call the police - although I must admit case workers do not generally resort to use of force, they yell.

They move people to psychiatric prisons if they want to do both. Police are only short term. Druggings would only be useful for short duration torture and interogation. Plus sometimes if you just want to torture you don't want to have lasting effects.

Police would have to learn dosing amounts or they might have a lot of dead bodies or physical signs left from them medling in "non lethal" practices.

You don't understand they don't deal with people, they deal with patients and perps, they don't see the other people as human, they see them as employment interfaces. If they take special notice it is likely due to a power trip or vendetta, don't have high expectations, its usually the opposite.

There are two sides of the coin of course, with going easy or letting things slip if it serves their social or political agenda.

The systems are all completely corrupt and prone to malicious conduct.

Wake up already.

Edited February 14, 2011 by William Ashley

[bjre]

Should we ask that anyone who wishes to become a police officer in Canada, to first complete 500 hours of volunteer training at a mental health facility, so that they can develop a non-violent approach toward suspects in the future? If this had been a requirement in the past, Dziekanski would still be alive, as would Ian Bush, Michael Vann Hubbard, Frank Paul, and a host of others who have died at the hands of officers ignorant of the methods we insist our mental health professionals use everyday. You would have to live in a cloud to not agree that police are prone to escalate a situation and possess no skills in DE-escalating a situation, resulting in needless deaths in far too many circumstances.

All problems are there because many evil laws, cops are only machines to use those laws.

[eyeball]

Should we ask that anyone who wishes to become a police officer in Canada, to first complete 500 hours of volunteer training at a mental health facility, so that they can develop a non-violent approach toward suspects in the future? If this had been a requirement in the past, Dziekanski would still be alive, as would Ian Bush, Michael Vann Hubbard, Frank Paul, and a host of others who have died at the hands of officers ignorant of the methods we insist our mental health professionals use everyday. You would have to live in a cloud to not agree that police are prone to escalate a situation and possess no skills in DE-escalating a situation, resulting in needless deaths in far too many circumstances.

This might help but I'd rather see some mental-health experts placed in command positions throughout the force.

As for preventing abuse at the hands of police working on the ground, I'd rather they all be outfitted with wearable audio and visual recorders. Like Amnesty International says, people's lives can be saved if someone is watching.

[eyeball]

Mental health facilities arn't non violent abuse is regular. Instiuttions have security that are used to physically force resolutions on people. People are confined and drugged against their wills.

Yet you say "non violent"

Violence is used.

They are incredibly abusive and these are places where people even have their legal rights stripped from them without their consent.

I think you maybe need to spend some times in those places before you make such stupid statements as non violent resolution is used by the mental health system.

peace officers and site security are already used in mental health facilities.

You're out to lunch. I've seen the insides of four facilities where I probably spent a couple of hundred hours or more in the course of helping someone recover from their psychosis. I saw zero evidence of any violent abuse at the hands of health-care workers. What I did see was a lot of over-crowding and a lot of under-funding.

The violence as you seem to be mischaracterizing it is in your imagination.

[Saipan]

I'd rather see some mental-health experts placed in command positions throughout the force.

And cops in command of nuthouses.

[Hydraboss]

Should we ask that anyone who wishes to become a police officer in Canada, to first complete 500 hours of volunteer training at a mental health facility, so that they can develop a non-violent approach toward suspects in the future? If this had been a requirement in the past, Dziekanski would still be alive, as would Ian Bush, Michael Vann Hubbard, Frank Paul, and a host of others who have died at the hands of officers ignorant of the methods we insist our mental health professionals use everyday. You would have to live in a cloud to not agree that police are prone to escalate a situation and possess no skills in DE-escalating a situation, resulting in needless deaths in far too many circumstances.

No skills to de-escalate things? You've obviously formed your entire opinion of cops from CBC headlines. For christ's sake, just watch them do something simple like help clear a bar a 3am - major league people skills in the vast majority of cases. Dealing with the mentally ill? These men and women carry nightsticks, pepper spray, tasers....oh, and don't forget....a fricken LETHAL firearm (not to mention the shotgun in the car). If they ALWAYS "escalate a situation", there would be a hell of a lot more scumbags dead on the streets.

A close friend of mine was a pharmaceutical sales rep for years (made HUGE money), but his dream was always to become a cop. So he quits his job when he gets accepted to the Edmonton City Police, and gets his first placement in the downtown drag area. That was two years ago. Not that long ago, he gets to "go hunting" - a woman and her young daughter come in to the station and they've both been raped and buggered by daddy. My friend catches up with the scumbag, he resists big time, my friend and his partner arrest him, and lo-and-behold, he gets released by the judge with a conditional sentence. Buddy's leaving the force over that one and going back to "pushing drugs".

Tell me again how cops don't know how to "de-escalate" a situation. I would have shot the bastard in the nuts, and then between the eyes.

[Shwa]

Should we ask that anyone who wishes to become a police officer in Canada, to first complete 500 hours of volunteer training at a mental health facility, so that they can develop a non-violent approach toward suspects in the future? If this had been a requirement in the past, Dziekanski would still be alive, as would Ian Bush, Michael Vann Hubbard, Frank Paul, and a host of others who have died at the hands of officers ignorant of the methods we insist our mental health professionals use everyday. You would have to live in a cloud to not agree that police are prone to escalate a situation and possess no skills in DE-escalating a situation, resulting in needless deaths in far too many circumstances.

Yes there far too many needless deaths. But not all cases dealing with the mentally ill are equal and while we can't possibly know what is going on in the minds of those poor souls, some of them might be thinking suicide by cop.

The other aspect is that we only hear about it when it goes wrong. I personally know of dozens of situations with regard to mentally ill suspects in which the police acted responsibly, professionally and the person was apprehended with safety for all concerned.

[Saipan]

I personally know of dozens of situations with regard to mentally ill suspects in which the police acted responsibly, professionally and the person was apprehended with safety for all concerned.

Depending how they are armed. Or if they appear evil, speaking in tongues, like Robert Dziekanski.

[Wilber]

Some of the ignorance displayed on this thread is astonishing.

The RCMP is going through a rough patch. Aside from some top down cultural problems they suffered greatly from cutbacks and stagnation during the nineties which have left them chronically short of enough officers to meet their obligations. They are being spread too thin and asked to do too many different things. One result is that they are having to put relatively inexperienced officers in too many critical areas. On integrated squads in this area it is not uncommon to have RCMP officers working with municipal officers with over twice their experience.

When it comes to municipal forces around here the average recruit is well educated and has plenty of life experience. The minimum requirements for the Abbotsford police are basically high school graduation, no criminal record, a valid drivers license and be at least nineteen years old. In reality, of the six Abbotsford officers on my son's course, the average age was 30, four had degrees, the other two had at least two years of university specializing in psychology and criminology and all had extensive experience in community service or other sectors of the legal system. My kid had spent over four years in victim services before becoming a police officer.

The police are there to enforce the law but are also being asked to be social workers while they are about it. Fact is, most cops are actually very good at defusing situations. They rarely lose their cool in situations that most of us would find very trying and may have to do it several times a shift, each under different and potentially dangerous circumstances.

[Saipan]

The RCMP is going through a rough patch.

Resulting from "equal opportunity politically correct employment"

They are being spread too thin and asked to do too many different things.

Most of which they do on their own, like chasing duck hunters to see IF they can find something wrong anywhere. Never mind the real crime.

I'd say their funding should be cut FAR more, till they keep their nose clean.

[William Ashley]

You're out to lunch. I've seen the insides of four facilities where I probably spent a couple of hundred hours or more in the course of helping someone recover from their psychosis. I saw zero evidence of any violent abuse at the hands of health-care workers. What I did see was a lot of over-crowding and a lot of under-funding.

The violence as you seem to be mischaracterizing it is in your imagination.

My words arn't appropriate for this forum I will say however that I disagree with your opinion.

Your opinion will not change what I have seen. This is in addition to individuals who have related this to me.

Many of these facilities are prisons for people who have committed no crimes.

Many individuals willingly seek support for issues such as homelessness, unemployment or other social issues - other individuals are locked in these places by other people are neglected and attacked by staff. It is not abnormal for physical events to occur - the result of individuals being locked in those places.

I have seen these things happen, I have no doubt it exists.

Nurses even people in halfway homes are trained in self defence - they are trained to respond to physical situations and are willing to strap people down to beds to get their way, even if it means calling in security and grapling a person and knocking them unconscious with a tranquilzer.

You denying this is just denile of the truth.

They will drug people against their wishes, they will lock people in rooms and leave them laying on the floor half unconscious they will use force to move people if they do not move, they will lock people away.. they don't care.

People are druged, confined, and abused in these places.

Police respond to situations, these institutions are more like prisons in that they serve to confine people and drug them (whether they are consensual or not)

Even before people have access to judicial process they can be drugged and locked away - without access to the courts or any type of review.

Even if they indicate they do not wish to forfeit their rights they are drugged and physically abused.

I've seen someone with their knees detach from non consesually injected drug reactions. This stuff isn't kids play it is akin to torture and non judicial imprisonment. You have to imagine what it must feel like for your leg bones to grind over one another with your knees detached. This person suffered a mark on their leg for the rest of their life from this, as well as lifelong knee problems. While torture and minor maiming, this is the sorts of activites that go on outside the judicial system in Canada - even before "board inquiry" or judicial review.. it is hard for someone to defend themself once these institutions are already overdosing them, a perfectly sound minded person can be put through incredible distress by drugs used to "treat" people when the side effects of the drugs are the same as the symptoms.

Edited February 17, 2011 by William Ashley