ToadBrother Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 I don't loathe it... In fact,I partake of it sometimes... But like all things,in moderation... I never put my faith in man because man is failed and will always let people down... How exactly do you... um... practice secularism in moderation? Rejoin church and state on Tuesdays? Apply religious tests on odd-numbered years? Quote
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 How exactly do you... um... practice secularism in moderation? Rejoin church and state on Tuesdays? Apply religious tests on odd-numbered years? Well,I can live in a secular world and still maintain my faith... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
dre Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 You're agnostic? I thought you're atheist. Well... I seriously doubt the existance of "god" as you would describe it, but Its unscientific to be absolutely sure that something doesnt exist just because it sounds crazy, and seems to defy common sense. I dont know for sure if theres an entity out there that might match one of the gods described by the hundreds of human religions or not, but it seems very unlikely and to tell you the truth I dont much care. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
ToadBrother Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Well,I can live in a secular world and still maintain my faith... That wasn't really my question. The whole point of secularism is that you can believe whatever you like without the state attempting to force you into any particular orthodoxy. Quote
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 That wasn't really my question. The whole point of secularism is that you can believe whatever you like without the state attempting to force you into any particular orthodoxy. Which is why I can believe in what I want to and you can do the same...Right? I'm not imposing my views on you,nor yours on me... Unless I'm mistaken??? If you're asking me if I believe in the seperation between church and state,then,yeah..I do... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Which is why I can believe in what I want to and you can do the same...Right? I'm not imposing my views on you,nor yours on me... Unless I'm mistaken??? If you're asking me if I believe in the seperation between church and state,then,yeah..I do... Where you been Jack? Church has always been state ane state has always been church. There is no real seperation..Most if not all state values stem originally from religion. Getting back to evil - Evil adores and rewards the mediocre and dispises the great...In fact liberalism educates the people that being the same and equal is a good thing...if everything is of the same value than how do we put things in order - of their value? Evil is the attempted containment of God - the de-freedoming of God..Those who want to take God's powers away have no quams about taking away yours and mine. The nature of evil in eccence is contained in the mind of those that have no self control and desperately want to control others..There is only one thing left in this world that irritates the hell out of me. It is when someone -whether it be a hen pecking wife...or the state - or the church wanting to control me....For God's sake eveb GOD does not want to control us...yet we want to control others and GOD. It reminds me of the early Zionist movement - they dispised Jews that would not bow down to their secularism...because Jews that believed in God would not believe in them. Hence if someone or something disrespects you - You might just want to destroy them. I guess that is why atheists hate believers - because we are an uncontrolable lot. Now that is evil. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Question: What fuels evil? Can it's supply of energy be cut off? Are successful people inclined not to cut it off? Here is something I wrote the other morning. Now to quote myself O.A.Bachlow. "The raging flames of greatness burn in but a few. The smiling coals of success glow in many." Is it possible that to be great you have to go beyond evil..that to achieve greatness you will suffer the slings and arrows of out rageous misfortune - (no I did not write that) - It is apparently evident if you are compliant and befriend evil - worldly success will come to you within this life time (they have their reward in full) - NOW if you defy evil and seek greatness..you will not have success? So the world drives great people to an early grave...and those that are of less value and potential then feed on the powers of greatness. Look at Vah Gough....a loser that when dead sells his works for millions. Or Jesus the Christ - who after his elimination from this world became an icon - that made billions upon billions of dollars for the less gifted...In fact the Mafia has one ritual of entry - you must kill one man....NOT the toughest man in the village - but the most pure you can find..in other words a great and good one - and by doing so you supposedly absorb his power of goodness to achieve evil success. So would you rather be great and die poor - or not great and die rich? In the end - It does not make a difference. Both the great and the not so great are absorbed into dark eternity..There is one difference though - the successful who are many are forgotten - The great achieve a type of immortality. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 I will be very good today and see if goodness has the power to benefit me materially. Wish me luck~ Quote
betsy Posted April 9, 2011 Report Posted April 9, 2011 Excerpt from... Richard Dawkins' commentary on Adolf HitlerWhen asked in an interview, "If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?", Richard Dawkins replied, "What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath."[1] Larry Taunton, the interviewer wrote, regarding Dawkins' Hitler comment: “ I was stupefied. He had readily conceded that his own philosophical position did not offer a rational basis for moral judgments. His intellectual honesty was refreshing, if somewhat disturbing on this point. More.... http://www.conservapedia.com/Richard_Dawkins%27_commentary_on_Adolf_Hitler Quote
betsy Posted April 9, 2011 Report Posted April 9, 2011 Gary DeMar wrote: ....There is no doubt that Hitler imbibed the social implications of Darwinism; it had a long history in Germany as Richard Weikart shows in his book From Darwin to Hitler. Some will say that Hitler and others “hijacked” Darwinism since there is nothing inherent in evolution that logically leads to anti-Semitism. Certainly Darwin was no anti-Semite, and I suspect that he was no Marxist either, and yet it was Karl Marx who wrote the following to Friedrich Engels: “Although developed in a course English manner, this is the book that contains the foundation in natural history for our view.” Given the above claims by Dawkins, and similar statements by other Darwinists, there cannot be any debate over what is moral or immoral. All atheistic scientists can do is record what Hitler did. They can’t make a moral judgment one way or the other. One more Dawkins quotation might help: “Natural selection is a deeply nasty process. . . . Human super niceness is a perversion of Darwinism because, in a wild population, it would be removed by natural selection. . . . From a rational choice point of view, or from a Darwinian point of view, human super niceness is just plain dumb.” So if there’s a thief sitting in jail waiting for his trial to commence, he might want to see if he can line up Richard Dawkins as an expert witness for his defense since, according to Dawkins, "DNA neither knows nor cares," and we're nothing but DNA.[2 http://www.conservapedia.com/Richard_Dawkins%27_commentary_on_Adolf_Hitler Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 9, 2011 Report Posted April 9, 2011 http://www.conservapedia.com/Richard_Dawkins%27_commentary_on_Adolf_Hitler A load of horsecrap. Darwin never recommend eugenics, eugenics was largely based out of the States, and some of its chief advocates were Christians. The whole point of Darwinian evolution was "the more variation the better", not less. The Nazis were an outgrowth of centuries of German and European anti-semitism. Blaming a theory that, when you actually read it, says the exact opposite. Bearing more false witness. Naughty naughty naughty. Jesus weeps, I thinks. Quote
betsy Posted April 9, 2011 Report Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) A load of horsecrap. Darwin never recommend eugenics, eugenics was largely based out of the States, and some of its chief advocates were Christians. The whole point of Darwinian evolution was "the more variation the better", not less. Cite. Support that. The Nazis were an outgrowth of centuries of German and European anti-semitism. Blaming a theory that, when you actually read it, says the exact opposite. Cite. Support that. Anyway, the focus of the article is on Dawkins. I'd like to read your comment on this Dawkins' quote: “Natural selection is a deeply nasty process. . . . Human super niceness is a perversion of Darwinism because, in a wild population, it would be removed by natural selection. . . . From a rational choice point of view, or from a Darwinian point of view, human super niceness is just plain dumb What do you say? Agree? Edited April 9, 2011 by betsy Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 9, 2011 Report Posted April 9, 2011 Cite. Support that. The entirety of evolutionary theory. The whole point of natural selection is variation. Can you genuinely be that ignorant of evolution? Cite. Support that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism Anyway, the focus of the article is on Dawkins. I'd like to read your comment on this Dawkins' quote: What do you say? Agree? I don't give a damn about Dawkins. I'm challenging your ignorance. YOu're clearly frightened of dealing with a major biologist like, say, Mayr. Quote
betsy Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) The entirety of evolutionary theory. The whole point of natural selection is variation. Can you genuinely be that ignorant of evolution? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism I don't give a damn about Dawkins. I'm challenging your ignorance. YOu're clearly frightened of dealing with a major biologist like, say, Mayr. Why does it concern you so much what I know? I gave you better sources scattered all over several threads....from CREATION, to NATURE OF EVIL, to FUNDAMENTALIST ATHEIST PREACHER, to CHURCH OF THE NON-BELIEVERS, to VIDEO DEBATES and INTERVIEWS, to REJOICE ON THIS DAY (which btw is my favorite thread of all). Most of these sources are more credible and authoritative than you and I - unless you consider yourself along the same level as Schroeder and other scientists who deal with cosmology, physics, math, biology etc.., Edited April 10, 2011 by betsy Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 Why does it concern you so much what I know? I gave you better sources scattered all over several threads....from CREATION, to NATURE OF EVIL, to FUNDAMENTALIST ATHEIST PREACHER, to CHURCH OF THE NON-BELIEVERS, to VIDEO DEBATES and INTERVIEWS, to REJOICE ON THIS DAY (which btw is my favorite thread of all). It's important that you tell me why ERVs are not evidence for evolution, because not answering it indicates that you have absolutely no idea what you put so much effort into disbelieving. It suggests an ignorant, frightened woman who does little more than go on to AIG's and other Creationist websites and paste what you find, but are utterly bereft of any knowledge of evolution. So, Betsy, why are ERVs not evidence of evolution? Most of these sources are more credible and authoritative than you and I - unless you consider yourself along the same level as Schroeder and other scientists who deal with cosmology, physics, math, biology etc.., If what scientists say is so important to you, why do you either quote mine scientists who do accept evolution or go out of your way to find the incredibly small number that don't? Quote
betsy Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 It's important that you tell me why ERVs are not evidence for evolution, because not answering it indicates that you have absolutely no idea what you put so much effort into disbelieving. It suggests an ignorant, frightened woman who does little more than go on to AIG's and other Creationist websites and paste what you find, but are utterly bereft of any knowledge of evolution. So, Betsy, why are ERVs not evidence of evolution? Go nextdoor to video debates for the answer. If what scientists say is so important to you, why do you either quote mine scientists who do accept evolution "Quote-mining," is a convenient accusation thrown at creationists by atheists, even though not all creationists do this deceptive measure. However, some atheists do the same thing - quote mining - you need not go any farther to see some examples. All you have to do is check some of the quoted statements taken from some posters by quote-miners in this site....they're usually taken out of context. Anyway, when I posted that long original article in Video Debates, some complained why I posted the whole thing (which I didn't).....and if I post only a part of an article, they say that's "quote-mining." Gee, it seems you guys don't want your opponent to be able to present her own argument. At least an article is more informative than miles of useless ranting! Btw, that url that's given....you know what's that for. To check out for yourselves where the material was taken. You can verify for yourselves whether there was dishonesty or deception involved with this "quote-mining." or go out of your way to find the incredibly small number that don't? How do you know they're "incredibly small numbers?" Do you have the exact numbers? Besides, what's numbers got to do with it? They managed to get some atheist scientists to drop evolution like a hot potato, didn't they? Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 Go nextdoor to video debates for the answer. Can you please post here the citation for the video that demonstrates why ERVs are not evidence of evolution? How do you know they're "incredibly small numbers?" Do you have the exact numbers? Besides, what's numbers got to do with it? They managed to get some atheist scientists to drop evolution like a hot potato, didn't they? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve You're bearing false witness again, Betsy. Quote
betsy Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve Here's what I found from my side. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/#presentsci Not as long as yours admittedly. Besides I told you what's numbers got to do with it? Is this an election? Are you polling? You equate greater numbers as proof of evolution? Anyway, I've given names of some prominent atheists (some are scientists) who ended up converting to Christianity, or becoming deists....meaning, seeing/understanding evolution to be false. Can you provide names of prominent Creationist scientists who defected to the evolution camp? Edited April 10, 2011 by betsy Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 Here's what I found from my side. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/#presentsci Not as long as yours admittedly. Besides I told you what's numbers got to do with it? Is this an election? Are you polling? You equate greater numbers as proof of evolution? You're distorting again. It's not just greater numbers, the last tally of the competition between DI and Project Steve was something like 600,000% difference. The vast and overwhelming majority of scientists accept evolution. Creationism has been in constant wane for a century. Quote
betsy Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 It's not just greater numbers, the last tally of the competition between DI and Project Steve was something like 600,000% difference. The vast and overwhelming majority of scientists accept evolution. Creationism has been in constant wane for a century. So what if there are only 4 or 3 or 2 or even 1 Creationist scientist(s)! One lone Creationist scientist who managed to get some evolution scientists to abandon evolution and instead embrace Intelligent Design speaks for itself! Quote
BubberMiley Posted April 10, 2011 Report Posted April 10, 2011 Creationist scientist Don't let your adjectives negate your nouns! Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
cybercoma Posted April 11, 2011 Report Posted April 11, 2011 I'm pretty sure Jesus is the nature of evil with lines like this: Luke 14:25-26 (NIV): [25] Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: [26] “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. Quote
betsy Posted April 12, 2011 Report Posted April 12, 2011 I'm pretty sure Jesus is the nature of evil with lines like this: Luke 14:25-26 (NIV): [25] Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: [26] “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. This is the interpretation from the Bible study: In comparison to one's devotion to Christ, one's family ties must be secondary. This does not set aside Jesus' other teachings to love one's enemies, to honour father and mother, and the like. It does highlight that absolute loyalty to Christ is paramount, even though in many societies, including the one in which Jesus taught, as well as many today, following Him involves precisely the either - or that this verse sets up. Quote
GostHacked Posted April 12, 2011 Report Posted April 12, 2011 This is the interpretation from the Bible study: In comparison to one's devotion to Christ, one's family ties must be secondary. This does not set aside Jesus' other teachings to love one's enemies, to honour father and mother, and the like. It does highlight that absolute loyalty to Christ is paramount, even though in many societies, including the one in which Jesus taught, as well as many today, following Him involves precisely the either - or that this verse sets up. But do you believe that? My family ties come before Jesus. My family has done more for me than Jesus ever has or will do. So my familiy is where my loyalties lie. Quote
eyeball Posted April 12, 2011 Report Posted April 12, 2011 But do you believe that? My family ties come before Jesus. My family has done more for me than Jesus ever has or will do. So my familiy is where my loyalties lie. Apparently this means you will burn in agony. I wonder if Jesus makes your family watch? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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