Raising the US debt ceiling

pinko · July 19, 2011

Ah...revenge is sweet. Your writing skills seem to be somewhat lacking.

Your reading skills are quite deficient. It must be that inferior American education system.

bush_cheney2004 · July 19, 2011

Your reading skills are quite deficient. It must be that inferior American education system.

Yes, so inferior that your own family left the education Mecca that is Manitoba...for the American "system".

pinko · July 19, 2011

Yes, so inferior that your own family left the education Mecca that is Manitoba...for the American "system".

One member of my family spent three years in the Dallas-Fort Worth area pursuing a fellowship.

By the way my sister has dual citizenship. She has both American and Canadian citizenship.

punked · July 19, 2011

Well, Senator Coburn has a new debt and deficit plan. That plan omes after the cut, cap and balance plan from Republicans in the house. That comes after the McConnell plan, and that comes after the Ryan plan.

And let's tally up the Democrats plans. Well, zero + zero = zero. There are no Democrat plans. Heckuva job guys! Heckuva job!

Yah I remember you had a plan in 2000 too? What came of Cut cap and Balance then? Oh Yeah that was a gimmick to pass the buck down the road, pretend you have a plan, then to blow a huge hole in the budget. Fool America once Shame on you. It is all the same BS that the republicans have been talking about for 30 years yet they have NEVER DONE ANY OF IT.

Your guys can keep lying to get into power it seems America loves to fall for your lies but the fact is these plans have been around for longer then I have been alive through countless Republican Admins and they have never been enacted. The only time your guys talk about them is when they are not in power or know they wont pass. YAWN.

bush_cheney2004 · July 19, 2011

By the way my sister has dual citizenship. She has both American and Canadian citizenship.

I rest my case...perhaps "America sucks" only applies to certain people.

Shady · July 19, 2011

Yah I remember you had a plan in 2000 too? What came of Cut cap and Balance then? Oh Yeah that was a gimmick to pass the buck down the road, pretend you have a plan, then to blow a huge hole in the budget. Fool America once Shame on you. It is all the same BS that the republicans have been talking about for 30 years yet they have NEVER DONE ANY OF IT.

Your guys can keep lying to get into power it seems America loves to fall for your lies but the fact is these plans have been around for longer then I have been alive through countless Republican Admins and they have never been enacted. The only time your guys talk about them is when they are not in power or know they wont pass. YAWN.

Actually, Republicans have tried to pass a balanced budget amendment several times, going back 15 years. But Democrats have blocked them every step of the way.

bush_cheney2004 · July 19, 2011

It is all the same BS that the republicans have been talking about for 30 years yet they have NEVER DONE ANY OF IT.

Wrong on this count....see Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget Act (1985 & 1987). Such bi-partisan efforts ultimately failed for different reasons, but not for lack of trying.

Shady · July 19, 2011

Wrong on this count....see Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget Act (1985 & 1987). Such bi-partisan efforts ultimately failed for different reasons, but not for lack of trying.

Yep. And again in 1997. Republicans fell one vote short of passing it. Thanks to Democrats. Why? Because Democrats are against any limits on government spending.

punked · July 19, 2011

Actually, Republicans have tried to pass a balanced budget amendment several times, going back 15 years. But Democrats have blocked them every step of the way.

Yah have they? Please cite the time they tried to pass it when Bush President and they controlled the house and the Senate. The only time they try is when they know it is going to fail because they know it is good politics and bad economics.

They did 1997 but even then they NEVER included such crazy measures as having to have a 2/3rds majority in any house to raise taxes in anyway. It was also easier in 1997 because Clinton didn't blow a whole in the budget with huge tax cuts. He actually raised them remember? Oh yeah he raised taxes, balanced budgets and added the most jobs ever recorded by a president. I remember that all with out a balance budget amendment which would lead to 1966 levels of spending, when the US was a much different country.

Edited July 19, 2011 by punked

Scotty · July 19, 2011

Once again, nobody has suggested cutting half of the federal budget overnight.

Given the Tea Party fruitloops have refused any and all tax increases, that doesn't leave anything but massive, immediate tax cuts.

Actually it wasn't. It was Chretien and Martin cutting spending by a 6 to 1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases.

You keep saying that while presenting no evidence to back it up.

And weren't you quite happy with massive, continuing deficits when George Bush was in office?

Scotty · July 19, 2011

So it's a cold winter day, and these two gentlemen, let's call them Germany and Sweden, walk into a small office, and address the wealthy owner. They tell him there are children starving, people freezing, and ask him for money. "Are there no prisons!?" he thunders. "Are there no workhouses!?"

bush_cheney2004 · July 19, 2011

So it's a cold winter day, and these two gentlemen, let's call them Germany and Sweden, walk into a small office, and address the wealthy owner. They tell him there are children starving, people freezing, and ask him for money. "Are there no prisons!?" he thunders. "Are there no workhouses!?"

They made a big mistake....should have asked for food.

pinko · July 19, 2011

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 12:03am — Joe Conason

Follow The National Memo Editor-in-Chief Joe Conason on Twitter: @jconason

Former President Bill Clinton says that he would invoke the so-called constitutional option to raise the nation’s debt ceiling “without hesitation, and force the courts to stop me” in order to prevent a default, should Congress and the President fail to achieve agreement before the August 2 deadline.

Sharply criticizing Congressional Republicans in an exclusive Monday evening interview with The National Memo, Clinton said, “I think the Constitution is clear and I think this idea that the Congress gets to vote twice on whether to pay for [expenditures] it has appropriated is crazy.”

Lifting the debt ceiling “is necessary to pay for appropriations already made,” he added, “so you can’t say, ‘Well, we won the last election and we didn’t vote for some of that stuff, so we’re going to throw the whole country’s credit into arrears.”

Having faced down the Republican House leadership during two government shutdowns when he was president -- and having brought the country’s budget from the deep deficits left by Republican presidents to a projected surplus -- Clinton is unimpressed by the GOP’s sudden enthusiasm for balanced budgets. But he never considered invoking the Fourteenth Amendment -- which says “the validity of the US public debt shall not be questioned” – because the Republicans led by then-Speaker Newt Gingrich didn’t threaten to use the debt ceiling as a weapon in their budget struggles with him.

According to Clinton, the Gingrich Republicans thought about that tactic before rejecting it -- and Treasury officials who served under Clinton commissioned legal research on the president’s power to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval. While some legal scholars believe the Fourteenth Amendment requires Congress to fund the debt that results from its appropriations, and therefore empowers the president to raise the debt ceiling, others vehemently disagree.

Like President Obama, Clinton is a former law professor who once taught the Constitution, and he understands that the extent of presidential power remains highly controversial, whether the issue is waging war or increasing the debt.

“Here’s what happened, as I remember – but let me back up a second,” Clinton said. “I have read accounts of that time where people at Treasury have been interviewed, and they say they did look into [the president's authority to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval].” As for the Republicans, “they did think about doing that" -- withholding approval of a higher limit -- "and I knew they were thinking about it.” But the question ultimately did not arise for Clinton, he says, because his opponents in Congress decided “they didn’t want to get caught” in a position where they appeared to be repudiating the debt incurred by their own party’s two previous presidents.

“The reason that raising the debt limit is so unpopular is that people think you’re voting to keep [increasing] deficit spending, instead of voting to honor obligations that were already incurred,” he said. “I think [the Gingrich Republicans] figured I’d be smart enough to explain to the American people that they were refusing to pay for the expenses they had voted for when Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush were president. And that would make ‘em look bad.”

Obama could offer precisely the same explanation in the present circumstances, where most of the current debt can be traced to the profligate military spending and tax cuts of the last Bush administration. Just as the nation’s debt had tripled or quadrupled between 1981 and 1993, in the dozen years of Republican rule before Clinton’s first inauguration, as he points out, so the second Bush administration plunged the budget from surplus to deep deficit before Obama spent one penny on economic stimulus or anything else.

Although Clinton says that if he were in Obama’s place he would raise the debt ceiling without legislation – “if it came to that” -- he believes the crisis will be resolved before August 2. “It looks to me like they’re going to make an agreement, and that’s smart.”

Next: Who Clinton thinks will "win" if a debt deal is achieved, why he is "proud" of Obama, and how he would structure a "good deal" for America

http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/exclusive-former-president-bill-clinton-says-he-would-use-constitutional-option-raise-debt?om_rid=NsfrMk&om_mid=_BOJXexB8caNsqM

Shady · July 19, 2011

Given the Tea Party fruitloops have refused any and all tax increases, that doesn't leave anything but massive, immediate tax cuts.

Who said anything about massive, immediate tax cuts? Only fruitloops like you I guess. :rolleyes:

You keep saying that while presenting no evidence to back it up.

It's fact. Do a little research sometime. But I'll post some evidence. But what are you gonna do when you have to admit to facts about how our deficit was handled? Will your head explode? :lol:

And weren't you quite happy with massive, continuing deficits when George Bush was in office?

Nope. Bush spent too much as well. But his average deficit was around $300 billion per year. Obama's average deficit is around $1.5 trillion. A tad bit of a difference huh.

punked · July 19, 2011

Who said anything about massive, immediate tax cuts? Only fruitloops like you I guess.

It's fact. Do a little research sometime. But I'll post some evidence. But what are you gonna do when you have to admit to facts about how our deficit was handled? Will your head explode?

Nope. Bush spent too much as well. But his average deficit was around $300 billion per year. Obama's average deficit is around $1.5 trillion. A tad bit of a difference huh.

Oh no you don't you don't get to count Clinton's successes as Bushes to Obscure numbers how about we talk about what Bush started with a 300 Billion Surplus to what he went to 1.3 Trillion dollar deficit. Now we can compare to Obama ok? That is what I thought just because Clinton did all the heavy lifting for Bush you wont be claiming for your own sorry. Bush Blew a hole in the deficit with Tax cuts end of story sorry.

dre · July 19, 2011

I rest my case...perhaps "America sucks" only applies to certain people.

Yup it does! The imaginary group of vehemently anti-american Canadians that lives inside your head. In reality people with this kind of hate-on for the US are a tiny minority in Canada, and Canadians have better things to do than worry about foriegners. In fact polls and statistics have shown that Canada is the most pro-American population on earth.

Edited July 19, 2011 by dre

Oleg Bach · July 19, 2011

The cash exists - It is stored away - better go into the secret bank account and toss a bit of money out to those in need....The idea that there is no money is false....there is plenty of money - How many millionares and billionares are there in the states that we know about? Better question would be - How many do we not know about? There is lots of money..and lots of hording..You don't need to raise the debt ceiling - that would be like someone borrowing money who has a pile stacked up in his house and just does not want to part with even a penny. America is also a nation of horders...but that is the ugly national family secret.

July 19, 2011

... polls and statistics have shown that Canada is the most pro-American population on earth.

Not true.

bush_cheney2004 · July 19, 2011

Yup it does! The imaginary group of vehemently anti-american Canadians that lives inside your head.

The above statement directly contradicts that which follows....

In reality people with this kind of hate-on for the US are a tiny minority in Canada,

In fact polls and statistics have shown that Canada is the most pro-American population on earth.

Nope...not even close. While there is broad support for the US in Canada, it is most certainly not the highest "on earth". That measure goes to sub-Saharan nations according to a Gallup Poll:

http://www.realclearworld.com/lists/top_5_most_pro_american_countries/

#1 = Ivory Coast

pinko · July 19, 2011

The above statement directly contradicts that which follows....

Nope...not even close. While there is broad support for the US in Canada, it is most certainly not the highest "on earth". That measure goes to sub-Saharan nations according to a Gallup Poll:

http://www.realclearworld.com/lists/top_5_most_pro_american_countries/

#1 = Ivory Coast

It is a stretch to say there is broad support for the US in Canada.

Edited July 19, 2011 by pinko

bush_cheney2004 · July 19, 2011

It is a stretch to say there is broad support for the US in Canada.

OK....but I like to follow the money...as in economic trade. Money talks...bullshit walks.

pinko · July 19, 2011

OK....but I like to follow the money...as in economic trade. Money talks...bullshit walks.

I notice the Group of Six has fashioned a plan that has support on both sides of the aisle in the Senate. It appears to address all the issues on either side of the political divide at least in the Senate.

Edited July 20, 2011 by pinko

Shady · July 20, 2011

LOL!!!!

Obama's press secretary actually said that "leadership is not proposing a plan." That's his exact quote!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oleg Bach · July 20, 2011

LOL!!!!

Obama's press secretary actually said that "leadership is not proposing a plan." That's his exact quote!!!

Translation: There is no plan because there is no place for the plan to come from, thus no proposal from and entity that does not exist - second translation - There is no leadership.

Shady · July 20, 2011

Translation: There is no plan because there is no place for the plan to come from, thus no proposal from and entity that does not exist - second translation - There is no leadership.

Well said!