Democratic Congresswoman almost killed in Arizona

[punked]

How dare you! I didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, I said "His ideology doesn't seem to fit any side so the left is going to have a real problem pinning this on the tea party" and "he held eclectic viewpoints which seem to defy political classification."

Fox is reporting he belonged to an extreme RIGHT wing group. Although fox is now walking that back.

Edited January 9, 2011 by punked

[pinko]

"You seem to have a real knack for not responding directly to what I say; you always seem to be dancing around it."

I am not obliged to conform to your model of discussion.

"Do you understand my position?"

Yes I do but if I required clarification I would ask you.

"Do you agree with it?"

You have taken a number of positions. Which one are you referring to?

Do you think it's at odds with what you are saying?

You have taken several positions that are at odds with positions I have adopted.

[LonJowett]

How dare you! I didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, I said "His ideology doesn't seem to fit any side so the left is going to have a real problem pinning this on the tea party" and "he held eclectic viewpoints which seem to defy political classification."

How dare you! You claimed you didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, and then immediately stated your conclusions about his ideology.

[scribblet]

How dare you! You claimed you didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, and then immediately stated your conclusions about his ideology.

You obviously have a problem with English, maybe you don't understand so will repeat I said:

I didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, I said "His ideology doesn't seem to fit any side so the left is going to have a real problem pinning this on the tea party" and

"he held eclectic viewpoints which seem to defy political classification." try again

Never mind, the democrats aren't having a problem understanding how to spin this and where to assign blame - Nothing like using a tragic event to your political advantage

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294_Page2.html

One veteran Democratic operative, who blames overheated rhetoric for the shooting, said President Barack Obama should carefully but forcefully do what his predecessor did.

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”

Edited January 9, 2011 by scribblet

[bloodyminded]

Never mind, the democrats aren't having a problem understanding how to spin this and where to assign blame - Nothing like using a tragic event to your political advantage

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294_Page2.html

Well of course.

You don't suppsoe that one of the two most powerful political parties in the world is going to be honest, do you?

[punked]

You obviously have a problem with English, maybe you don't understand so will repeat I said:

I didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, I said "His ideology doesn't seem to fit any side so the left is going to have a real problem pinning this on the tea party" and

"he held eclectic viewpoints which seem to defy political classification." try again

Never mind, the democrats aren't having a problem understanding how to spin this and where to assign blame - Nothing like using a tragic event to your political advantage

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294_Page2.html

Nice one an unnamed democrat. Hey guess what an unnamed democratic source has a bridge to sell in New York to you better jump on that one to.

[scribblet]

Honest oh sure, political opportunism to use such a tragic event for political gain doesn't have a word right now...

then there's CNN

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/09/the-shame-and-hypocrisy-of-cnn/

But in this instance, as York notes, the same people who insisted in November 2009 that people should not rush to judgment about the potential connection of radical Islam to the Fort Hood shooting practically broke legs trying to tie an apparent paranoid schizophrenic who hailed Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto to Sarah Palin:

And as has been repeatedly pointed out in the hours since, Democrats have also used crosshairs and bulls-eye imagery in their own political communications, including one in Arizona “targeting” J. D Hayworth of Arizona. As far as the “reload” comment, it was less than three years ago that Barack Obama himself talked about responding to political opponents with a gun analogy:

My reading of various left wing forums tells me that their strategy of blaming this on Sara Palin is taking hold. Never mind she's had nothing to do with it, and never mind that there is as much left wing violent ramblings as any other.

http://www.breitbart.tv/msnbc-asserts-violent-rhetoric-exclusively-from-the-right-two-months-ago-featured-guest-calling-for-violent-revolution/

Of course, all this will spun out as being something really different and okay when the left does it, wasn't meant that way at all yadda yadda

http://texas4palin.blogspot.com/2011/01/unbelievable-democrat-group-using.html

ETA: the spin is on it's way now

Edited January 9, 2011 by scribblet

[punked]

Honest oh sure, political opportunism to use such a tragic event for political gain doesn't have a word right now...

then there's CNN

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/09/the-shame-and-hypocrisy-of-cnn/

My reading of various left wing forums tells me that their strategy of blaming this on Sara Palin is taking hold. Never mind she's had nothing to do with it, and never mind that there is as much left wing violent ramblings as any other.

http://www.breitbart.tv/msnbc-asserts-violent-rhetoric-exclusively-from-the-right-two-months-ago-featured-guest-calling-for-violent-revolution/

Of course, all this will spun out as being something really different and okay when the left does it, wasn't meant that way at all yadda yadda

http://texas4palin.blogspot.com/2011/01/unbelievable-democrat-group-using.html

I think you just have to head over to politico to see the right wing out in full force trying to blame this on the left. So what.

You site very right wing blogs blaming the left for this all and I am what? Shocked? Nope it is what they do. Doesn't change what was said and what was done in the past by the leaders of the tea and Republican parties.

[LonJowett]

You obviously have a problem with English, maybe you don't understand so will repeat I said:

I didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, I said "His ideology doesn't seem to fit any side so the left is going to have a real problem pinning this on the tea party" and

"he held eclectic viewpoints which seem to defy political classification." try again

Never mind, the democrats aren't having a problem understanding how to spin this and where to assign blame - Nothing like using a tragic event to your political advantage

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294_Page2.html

You obviously have a problem with English, maybe you don't understand so I will repeat what I said:

You claimed you didn't make a conclusion about his political ideology, And then you said "His ideology doesn't seem to fit any side so the left is going to have a real problem pinning this on the tea party" and

"he held eclectic viewpoints which seem to defy political classification."

How can you state what his viewpoints are if you didn't make a conclusion about his ideology?

D'uh!

Try again

[LonJowett]

My reading of various left wing forums tells me that their strategy of blaming this on Sara Palin is taking hold. Never mind she's had nothing to do with it, and never mind that there is as much left wing violent ramblings as any other.

http://www.breitbart.tv/msnbc-asserts-violent-rhetoric-exclusively-from-the-right-two-months-ago-featured-guest-calling-for-violent-revolution/

My reading of various right wing forums tells me that their strategy of blaming this on Obama's health care plan is taking hold. And they're right. It might have had something to do with it.

[wyly]

It should be quite apparent to anyone with a functioning brain that the hatred promulgated by the likes of Sarah Palin will influence an individual such as this young man. Whether he read Mein Kamph ot the Communist Manifesto is really beside the point. The gun culture in the USA and in particular a state like Arizona contributes in large part to such tragedies. Events such as these will continue to be repeated unless and until the Congress rids itself of the influence of the gun lobby.

you're absolutely correct, just take a look at the members of this forum who if we assume are normal are swayed by extremist political thinking...it's not a big strech to assume that a mentaly unstable person will be more easily swayed to take extreme action....

[lukin]

you're absolutely correct, just take a look at the members of this forum who if we assume are normal are swayed by extremist political thinking...it's not a big strech to assume that a mentaly unstable person will be more easily swayed to take extreme action....

THE most moronic comment in the history of this forum. My goodness. Typical comment by a know-nothing buffoon. 2 sides to every coin wyly. Get educated.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/is_daily_kos_to_blame_for_giff.html

Edited January 10, 2011 by lukin

[Wilber]

My reading of various right wing forums tells me that their strategy of blaming this on Obama's health care plan is taking hold. And they're right. It might have had something to do with it.

Whatever, if people who should bloody well know better insist on talking like playground gunslingers and gang bangers, what the hell do they expect. Political rhetoric in the US is in the sewer.

[pinko]

Whatever, if people who should bloody well know better insist on talking like playground gunslingers and gang bangers, what the hell do they expect. Political rhetoric in the US is in the sewer.

That it is. What moves it to a new level though is the appearence of these individuals with guns at public events. That states such as Arizona actively encourage the carrying of weapons is puzzling and there seems to be a logical disconnect between this and the actions of deranged individuals involved in multiple killings. Apparently some here are so indoctrinated by the idea of the right to bear arms that they fail so see the folly of such a right and the consequences flowing from same.

Edited January 10, 2011 by pinko

[Bitsy]

Never mind, the democrats aren't having a problem understanding how to spin this and where to assign blame - Nothing like using a tragic event to your political advantage

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294_Page2.html

And from your same article, I find it unfortunate that this Republican Senator did not feel comfortable in attaching his name to this reasonable statement.

A senior Republican senator, speaking anonymously in order to freely discuss the tragedy, told POLITICO that the Giffords shooting should be taken as a “cautionary tale” by Republicans.

“There is a need for some reflection here - what is too far now?” said the senator. “What was too far when Oklahoma City happened is accepted now. There’s been a desensitizing. These town halls and cable TV and talk radio, everybody’s trying to outdo each other.”

The vast majority of tea party activists, this senator said, ought not be impugned.

“They’re talking about things most mainstream Americans are talking about, like spending and debt,” the Republican said, before adding that politicians of all stripes need to emphasize in the coming days that “tone matters.”

“And the Republican Party in particular needs to reinforce that,” the senator said.

[pinko]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40981503/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/

[scribblet]

There's as much vitriolic political rhetoric coming from the left as the right and- MSNBC had no trouble asserting that violent Rhetoric comes exclusively From right; yet not too long ago, featured a guest calling for violent revolution from the left.

There are new levels of idiocy regarding this tragic event, most of them blaming Palin and the teaparty based on nothing but zealotry, speculation and wishful thinking. The left is blaming Palin and the tea party - while the right - a mentally disturbed political eccentric. By all accounts so far, the right is correct on this one .

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071913818696964.html

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel

Those who purport to care about the tenor of political discourse don't help civil debate when they seize on any pretext to call their political opponents accomplices to murder.

Shortly after November's electoral defeat for the Democrats, pollster Mark Penn appeared on Chris Matthews's TV show and remarked that what President Obama needed to reconnect with the American people was another Oklahoma City bombing. To judge from the reaction to Saturday's tragic shootings in Arizona, many on the left (and in the press) agree, and for a while hoped that Jared Lee Loughner's killing spree might fill the bill.

With only the barest outline of events available, pundits and reporters seemed to agree that the massacre had to be the fault of the tea party movement in general, and of Sarah Palin in particular. Why? Because they had created, in New York Times columnist Paul Krugman's words, a "climate of hate."

The critics were a bit short on particulars as to what that meant. Mrs. Palin has used some martial metaphors—"lock and load"—and talked about "targeting" opponents. But as media writer Howard Kurtz noted in The Daily Beast, such metaphors are common in politics. Palin critic Markos Moulitsas, on his Daily Kos blog, had even included Rep. Gabrielle Giffords's district on a list of congressional districts "bullseyed" for primary challenges. When Democrats use language like this—or even harsher language like Mr. Obama's famous remark, in Philadelphia during the 2008 campaign, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"—it's just evidence of high spirits, apparently. But if Republicans do it, it somehow creates a climate of hate.

There's a climate of hate out there, all right, but it doesn't derive from the innocuous use of political clichés. And former Gov. Palin and the tea party movement are more the targets than the source.

--

To be clear, if you're using this event to criticize the "rhetoric" of Mrs. Palin or others with whom you disagree, then you're either: (a) asserting a connection between the "rhetoric" and the shooting, which based on evidence to date would be what we call a vicious lie; or ( you're not, in which case you're just seizing on a tragedy to try to score unrelated political points, which is contemptible. Which is it?

and it works both ways of course

-Democrats use "bulls eye" targets extensively in their political graphics.

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-targeted-republican.jpg

- democrat targeting strategy

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

Daily Kos et al have been busy scrubbing rabid left wing posts

Then we have Obama saying "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" hmmmmm

[bloodyminded]

Honest oh sure, political opportunism to use such a tragic event for political gain doesn't have a word right now...

then there's CNN

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/09/the-shame-and-hypocrisy-of-cnn/

!!!

I'm trying to figure this out; are you suggesting that this is "a step too far," in that it's uniquely outrageous?

That's flatly untrue; the very "War on Terror" is a cynical exploitation of a terrible tragedy.

[Bitsy]

The point was obvious.

If the Tea Party ad with crosshairs on Giffords' district was an incitement to violence, then the Daily Kos article listing Giffords as a "target" and putting a bulls-eye on her district is clearly an incitement to violence as well.

Asking readers if they approve mounting a primary challenge to certain incumbents is a widely used approach and one that is an acceptable means to determine what areas to direct a group’s limited resources; it has never been viewed as “inciting violence” and further, it has never done such. I find it a huge stretch to compare the Kos’ post even with its bull eye’s to Palin’s “Don’t retreat; reload,” and putting crosshairs on congressional districts as targets. Certainly, Rep. Giffords saw the difference as she never commented on Kos’ talk of a primary challenge to her but she did speak of Palin’s: “We’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list,” Ms. Giffords said last March. “But the thing is the way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they’ve got to realize there’s consequences to that.”

There was never a retraction, apology or even a lessening of Palin’s rhetoric until now. A Palin aide is defending the use of the crosshairs and now denying that they were intended as a rifle scope but meant to be viewed as a “surveryor” symbol. Imagine that? After all these time and all the outrage directed toward Palin for that graphic, we are now being told of its symbolic innocence. Interesting comments to her backpedaling, especially this one:

Refudiation free zone here. 20 people are mowed down in a grocery store and Palin thinks she's the victim? Typical. You don't get to spend 3 years blowing a dog whistle and yelling fire in a theater then get to wash your hands of it when it goes bad.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0111/Palin_aide_Never_intended_gun_sights.html

[pinko]

If you listened to Olbermann's statement he offered an apology for his rhetoric. Will Palin do likewise?

I am wondering what position you adopt with respect to individuals bringing weapons to public events.

Edited January 10, 2011 by pinko

[bloodyminded]

There was never a retraction, apology or even a lessening of Palin’s rhetoric until now. A Palin aide is defending the use of the crosshairs and now denying that they were intended as a rifle scope but meant to be viewed as a “surveryor” symbol. Imagine that? After all these time and all the outrage directed toward Palin for that graphic, we are now being told of its symbolic innocence.

Oh, criminey. I guess I'll sit back and watch as her defenders take this embarassing bit of deceit seriously.

[Bitsy]

and it works both ways of course

-Democrats use "bulls eye" targets extensively in their political graphics.

Bullsyes vs Crosshairs

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/01/10/bullseyes_vs_crosshairs.html#

[LonJowett]

There's as much vitriolic political rhetoric coming from the left as the right and- MSNBC had no trouble asserting that violent Rhetoric comes exclusively From right; yet not too long ago, featured a guest calling for violent revolution from the left.

What are you talking about?

[scribblet]

If you listened to Olbermann's statement he offered an apology for his rhetoric. Will Palin do likewise?

I am wondering what position you adopt with respect to individuals bringing weapons to public events.

Maybe she'll apologize if the democrats apologize for using similar (crosshairs on maps etc.)or Obama will apologize for his analogies.

I don't think individuals should bring weapons to public events, even if it's to make a point about their amendment rights. None of which makes any one responsible for what this guy did. This is a major wet dream for the democrats who are now exploiting this tragedy for all it's worth.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100071019/the-arizona-shootings-were-like-kwanzaa-come-early-for-americas-liberal-fascists/

How sick do you have to be to start making political capital out of the killing of six people including a nine-year old girl, long before anyone has the remotest clue what the murderer’s motives were, or his political affiliations, or his state of mind?

Not sick at all, to judge by the response of so many US Tweeters in the immediate aftermath of the Arizona shootings. When you’re a liberal, it seems, cloying sanctimoniousness, grotesque moral posturing, double standards, hypocrisy and cynical, malevolent smearing all come as naturally and healthily as breathing.

As Toby Harnden reports, barely were the bodies cold when the liberal fascists started pointing the finger of blame: it was Sarah Palin’s fault, of course; Sarah Palin’s and Glenn Beck’s and, of course, the Tea Party’s. Definitely not a crazed killing spree by a deeply confused young man, no, sirree. After all, as Rahm Emmanuel would say, you must “never let a crisis go to waste.”

[LonJowett]

You can't cite what you're referring to?