Why Are Atheists Cowards?

[Jack Weber]

That's because praying at it doesn't work.

I know The Commandments...Particularily #1 and #3...

I don't pray at,or to,man made mechanisms...

[Shady]

Well considering most depictions of the Christian god show him floating around on clouds it's a pretty good term.

Not really. Those types of pictures are just human's representation of God and an interpretation of heaven. It doesn't mean that Christians believe that God only exists up in the sky. It's a common misbelief and stereotype. Whether you're talking about Islam, Judaism or Christianity. God has never been relegated to the sky. And it's vastly different from Greek and Roman gods, that were particularly linked to specific geographic phenomenon, such as the sea, the sky, the sun, etc.

But if it makes atheists feel better about themselves, so be it.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Shady

[dre]

To the point about most posters here at MLW...You're probably right...

Specifically as it relates mockery on the subject of faith/religion,most of the mockery I find comes from the Atheistic side of things.

"Skygod Worshipper" seems to be a perjorative designed to question the inate intelligence of those predisposed to faith in Christ or God,does it not?

I disagree. I think the most "mocking" that goes on is between the diferent abrahamic sects. Muslims, and Christians bashing each other, and supporting government sanctioned violence against each other, trying to insult each others gods and prophets etc. I work in Salt Lake City and some of the most condesending shit Iv ever heard is the way Christians make fun of mormons.

And historically the abrahamites flat out killed folks that wouldnt get on board.

Putting the handful of atheists in the world today (less than 8%) against the rich rich history of religious bigotry thats gone on for thousands of years and still exists today is losing proposition.

[dre]

Not really. Those types of pictures are just human's representation of God and an interpretation of heaven. It doesn't mean that Christians believe that God only exists up in the sky. It's a common misbelief and stereotype. Whether you're talking about Islam, Judaism or Christianity. God has never been relegated to the sky. And it's vastly different from Greek and Roman gods, that were particularly linked to specific geographic phenomenon, such as the sea, the sky, the sun, etc.

But if it makes atheists feel better about themselves, so be it.

Well the "heavens" are generally thought to be above us (in the sky) while hell is down below. Skygod is actually a pretty apt description, but really where abrahamites imagine their god to live is pretty much beside the point.

[Jack Weber]

I disagree. I think the most "mocking" that goes on is between the diferent abrahamic sects. Muslims, and Christians bashing each other, and supporting government sanctioned violence against each other, trying to insult each others gods and prophets etc. I work in Salt Lake City and some of the most condesending shit Iv ever heard is the way Christians make fun of mormons.

And historically the abrahamites flat out killed folks that wouldnt get on board.

Putting the handful of atheists in the world today (less than 8%) against the rich rich history of religious bigotry thats gone on for thousands of years and still exists today is losing proposition.

I don't disagree with that...

But it still seems that you have'nt made the obvious distinction between "religion" and "faith"...

[Jack Weber]

Not really. Those types of pictures are just human's representation of God and an interpretation of heaven. It doesn't mean that Christians believe that God only exists up in the sky. It's a common misbelief and stereotype. Whether you're talking about Islam, Judaism or Christianity. God has never been relegated to the sky. And it's vastly different from Greek and Roman gods, that were particularly linked to specific geographic phenomenon, such as the sea, the sky, the sun, etc.

But if it makes atheists feel better about themselves, so be it.

Have you read the Book of Revelation???

Any of the Gospels???

Christ ACCENDED into Heaven...

Do you understand the biblical description of the 3 Heavens???

[Guest TrueMetis]

Not really. Those types of pictures are just human's representation of God and an interpretation of heaven. It doesn't mean that Christians believe that God only exists up in the sky. It's a common misbelief and stereotype. Whether you're talking about Islam, Judaism or Christianity. God has never been relegated to the sky. And it's vastly different from Greek and Roman gods, that were particularly linked to specific geographic phenomenon, such as the sea, the sky, the sun, etc.

But if it makes atheists feel better about themselves, so be it.

The Heavens in the bible was in sky and clouds, hence sky god. Now it is not, because of airplanes but that's just Religious folks reinterpreting things when they are shown to be wrong.

[Bonam]

Man just when I thought these boards didn't have any more religious zealots like betsy, Shady decides to have a revelation and become a crusader.

[bloodyminded]

To the point about most posters here at MLW...You're probably right...

Specifically as it relates mockery on the subject of faith/religion,most of the mockery I find comes from the Atheistic side of things.

That's true...but it doesn't clearly say anything about the mockers (much less atheists generally). Of course religious people aren't going to mock religion as a whole! They'll often mock others--knowing theirs is the correct one, since they were(usually) born into it. (Patriotism, another type of religion, works much the same way.) But obviously they're not apt to mock that which they believe: that god exists, and is interested.

"Skygod Worshipper" seems to be a perjorative designed to question the inate intelligence of those predisposed to faith in Christ or God,does it not?

Yes, and it's pretty unneccessary, I agree.

Edited December 25, 2010 by bloodyminded

[bloodyminded]

And some of us think that belief in nothing,or even worse,faith in Man is a hopeless system doomed to failure...

With hubris like that,Satan could be described as the ultimate humanist...

Those who think all religions are false are not any more hubristic than those--ie. all religious people--who think that 99.9% of all religions that ever existed are false.

[GostHacked]

Yes, you're all about mocking beliefs you find silly, except when it comes to Islam. That's where you draw the line. In that case, when somebody wants to burn some paper, or draw a cartoon, your attitude becomes quite different.

Another classic example of how many atheists are hypocrites and cowards.

Which is not unlike many who follow some version of a sky-god. Hypocrites and cowards. Why are you just targeting atheists and not agnostics???

[Shady]

Why are you just targeting atheists and not agnostics???

Because agnostics aren't into prosthelytizing the way some atheists seem to be these days. Plus, the agnostic position is a logical position to have. Not know if there is or isn't a God. Atheism is a belief in the same way any other religion is a belief.

[bloodyminded]

Because agnostics aren't into prosthelytizing the way some atheists seem to be these days. Plus, the agnostic position is a logical position to have. Not know if there is or isn't a God. Atheism is a belief in the same way any other religion is a belief.

No it isn't. There are atheists who believe there is no god; but most atheists don't believe in god. That's an important distinction, and it doesn't seem complicated to me.

Personally, I'm not saying there's no God. I am saying that I see no good reason to believe in one. I don't believe in the Homeric gods either.

Nor do you.

I'm not closed off to the very idea. If I could be convinced that Jesus is the son of God, or that Mohammad is God's prophet, or that the classical pantheons are real, then excellent, I'll chnage my views accordingly.

That's the logical position to have.

Some people would call this agnostic, but I'm not too convinced. Most agnostics, in my experience, tend to be agnostic about culturally-specific religions. A Canadian agnostic is usually saying "I'm not sure if the Judeo-Christain God is real or not." He or she isn't, in my opinion, saying "I don't know if the Hindu gods are real or not."

Well, that's not agnosticism; that's a tepid acceptance of the possibility of one religion.

Similarly, many self-described "agnostics" are actually atheisis, I imagine, but are uncomfortable with the associations present to the word: they don't wish to be seen as "believers in atheism" (which they aren't, by the way), so they take on what they view as more "moderate" terminology.

But to be fair, true agnosticism and atheism are very similar, and the matter can get a little complicated. I think Bertrand Russell made some excellent remarks about agnosticism and atheism:

Here there comes a practical question which has often troubled me. Whenever I go into a foreign country or a prison or any similar place they always ask me what is my religion.

I never know whether I should say "Agnostic" or whether I should say "Atheist". It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God.

On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.

None of us would seriously consider the possibility that all the gods of homer really exist, and yet if you were to set to work to give a logical demonstration that Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, and the rest of them did not exist you would find it an awful job. You could not get such proof.

Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists. In regard to the Christian God, I should, I think, take exactly the same line.

There is exactly the same degree of possibility and likelihood of the existence of the Christian God as there is of the existence of the Homeric God.

Edited December 25, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Guest TrueMetis]

Because agnostics aren't into prosthelytizing the way some atheists seem to be these days. Plus, the agnostic position is a logical position to have. Not know if there is or isn't a God. Atheism is a belief in the same way any other religion is a belief.

You do realize that most atheists, and theists for that matter, are agnostics. You are not an atheist or an agnostic, they are not mutually exclusive terms. Here's a pretty good summation.

Q: What's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic?

A: It has to do with the difference between what you believe and what you think you know. For any particular god that you can imagine, a "theist" is one who has a belief in that god. In contrast, an "atheist" is one who does not have a belief in the god. A "gnostic" is one who knows about the existence of god and an "agnostic" is one who thinks that god is unknowable.

Notice that the terms "atheist" and "agnostic", by these definitions, are not mutually exclusive. You could be an agnostic atheist, meaning you don't think that the existence of gods is knowable, but you don't choose to believe in one without further proof. Many people assume that atheists believe that gods can be proved not to exist, but this isn't strictly true and there is no proper word to describe this. You could call such a person an "untheist", perhaps. Or, you could just call such a person a "gnostic atheist", one who doesn't believe in a god and thinks that his non-belief can be proved.

So there are four possible ways one could be.

1. Agnostic-Theist: believes god exists, but the existence of a god is unknowable

2. Gnostic-Theist: believes in a god for which he claims knowledge

3. Agnostic-Atheist: does not believe god exists, but it can't be proved

4. Gnostic-Atheist: believes it can be proved that god does not exist

Case 3 is sometimes referred to as "weak atheism" and case 4 is sometimes referred to as "strong atheism". Only strong atheism positively asserts that there are no gods.

Finally, it should be pointed out that when a person is asked about their beliefs and replies that they are agnostic, they are avoiding the question and answering a different one. Someone who can't positively say he/she believes in a god is an atheist.

My link

[bloodyminded]

You do realize that most atheists, and theists for that matter, are agnostics. You are not an atheist or an agnostic, they are not mutually exclusive terms. Here's a pretty good summation.

My link

Notice that the terms "atheist" and "agnostic", by these definitions, are not mutually exclusive. You could be an agnostic atheist, meaning you don't think that the existence of gods is knowable, but you don't choose to believe in one without further proof. Many people assume that atheists believe that gods can be proved not to exist, but this isn't strictly true and there is no proper word to describe this

Right.

Thanks, tm.

[Shady]

You do realize that most atheists, and theists for that matter, are agnostics. You are not an atheist or an agnostic, they are not mutually exclusive terms. Here's a pretty good summation.

I believe that they are mutually exclusive terms. When you get to the core of it, one believes there isn't a God. The other doesn't know. Two very different perspectives.

Anyways, here's a great column discussing the original topic.

It’s Christmas time, and that can only mean one thing. A group of atheists and secular humanists are trying once again to place ads on the sides of city buses explaining that God is a myth, religion is pointless, and UFOs and Jesus have equal credibility.

Personally, I prefer my money to go to charities for hungry children and homeless families, but that’s probably because I’m one of those silly Christians.

...

But do these jolly God-haters appreciate the irony of their actions? I very much doubt it.

You see, the only countries willing to allow them this freedom and prepared to protect them in their zeal are the very societies founded on the Christian principles the God-haters appear to despise.

...

That they occasionally mention Yahweh or Allah is little more than window-dressing; it is Christ, Christianity and the Christian God they are opposed to. Of course they are; Christianity is what mummy and daddy believed, and so it must be wrong and it must be cool to be nasty about it.

...

Religion can cause horror, such as women being stoned for blasphemy in Pakistan or homosexuals hanged in Iran. But there are no attempts to put ads on buses in Karachi or Tehran.

The state giving people some time off at Christmas or mentioning God in the national anthem doesn’t seem all that bad compared to being locked up for 30 years in Marxist Cuba for being a Christian, but perhaps I don’t appreciate just how awful it must be as an atheist in contemporary Canada.

That’s probably why they tend to look so unhappy and angry. Merry Christmas you poor things, Merry Christmas.

Link

It's definitely that time of year! When atheists/secular humanists and other pseudo-smart people can't stand to see other people enjoying themselves and having fun.

[bloodyminded]

I believe that they are mutually exclusive terms. When you get to the core of it, one believes there isn't a God. The other doesn't know. Two very different perspectives.

Anyways, here's a great column discussing the original topic.

It's definitely that time of year! When atheists/secular humanists and other pseudo-smart people can't stand to see other people enjoying themselves and having fun.

That link you gave us is not only quite mean-spirited--the author uses "Merry Christmas" as a way to insult people ("Merry Christmas, you poor things, Merry Christmas"); this is opposed to the very spirit (Christmas) he or she invokes, and is probably blasphemous; at any rate, any Christians who think this way are clearly not big fans of the wise, compassionate, forgiving Christ.

But this point is quite secondary; the main point is that this is an incredibly stupid little opinion by a stupid little person. It's sour, bitter, and full of the hate that Christians supposedly oppose.

True Metis' post contained a far better understanding of atheism than this "rebel against your parents" nonsense.

Edited December 26, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Shady]

That link you gave us is not only quite mean-spirited

Aww you poor thing. Are ads on buses during the holidays, declaring Christmas a myth mean-spirited? As for the link. You people need to grow some thicker skin. The link was definitely full of satire. But if that's what you consider hatred, I'm suprised that you get out of bed every morning.

[bloodyminded]

Aww you poor thing. Are ads on buses during the holidays, declaring Christmas a myth mean-spirited? As for the link. You people need to grow some thicker skin. The link was definitely full of satire. But if that's what you consider hatred, I'm suprised that you get out of bed every morning.

I'm not personally offended; I simply consider the piece to be nasty in tone.

And no, it's nothing like an ad that calls religions a "myth" or says that God "probably" doesn't exist. Those aren't directed insults, the way the piece you linked us to decidedly was.

I think the author's the one with the thin skin, which is why he resorts to direct belittlement of the people involved, rather than merely arguing with or dismissing atheism itself.

Even if you agree with the piece, I don't see how you couldn't understand the rhetorical distinctions between the two different approaches.

[Shady]

I'm not personally offended; I simply consider the piece to be nasty in tone.

And no, it's nothing like an ad that calls religions a "myth" or says that God "probably" doesn't exist. Those aren't directed insults

Are you for real? See, this is how you lose all credibility. You don't think ads during Christmas that proclaim a Christian holiday a myth are mean-spirited? Come'on man. Stop being stupid.

[bloodyminded]

Are you for real? See, this is how you lose all credibility. You don't think ads during Christmas that proclaim a Christian holiday a myth are mean-spirited? Come'on man. Stop being stupid.

I appreciate the Christian love behind your kind suggestion that I "stop being stupid," and I have little doubt that the Christ Himself would approve.

But no, I think you're dead wrong:

One is directed at the thought.

The other is directed at the people.

How in the world can you not understand this?

Edited December 26, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Shady]

I appreciate the Christian love behind your kind suggestion that I "stop being stupid," and I have little doubt that the Christ Himself would approve.

Who cares. I'm not Christian. I don't care what Christ would approve of.

But no, I think you're dead wrong:

I think you're being purposely obtuse. The ads are offensive to many Christians that celebrate Christmas. How can you not understand that? It's a direct attack on their faith and their holiday.

[bloodyminded]

Who cares. I'm not Christian. I don't care what Christ would approve of.

My mistake.

I think you're being purposely obtuse. The ads are offensive to many Christians that celebrate Christmas. How can you not understand that? It's a direct attack on their faith and their holiday.

No, you're being purposely obtuse, if you can't see the clear and obvious difference.

[Jack Weber]

Who cares. I'm not Christian. I don't care what Christ would approve of.

I think you're being purposely obtuse. The ads are offensive to many Christians that celebrate Christmas. How can you not understand that? It's a direct attack on their faith and their holiday.

Hey Professor,

Do yourself a huge favour and stop sticking up for us...

You're not helping and you're not needed...

No one needs a phony like you feigning outrage about something you admit to not believing in...

[bloodyminded]

Hey Professor,

Do yourself a huge favour and stop sticking up for us...

You're not helping and you're not needed...

No one needs a phony like you feigning outrage about something you admit to not believing in...

Exactly...the Jews don't need Mengele to defend their honour.