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Opposition To Vote Against Human Smuggling Bill


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So much for crackiong down on human smuggling, a pox on all their houses.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101201/liberal-smuggling-101201/

The three Opposition parties are uniting to vote down the Conservative government's proposed human smuggling legislation.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff announced Wednesday that his party won't support Bill C-49 when it reaches second reading in the House of Commons, which would effectively kill the controversial measures.

Ignatieff said the proposed law violates the Canadian Charter of Rights.

"We feel after much thought and reflection that this bill is in violation of the Charter," Ignatieff told reporters after his morning caucus meeting.

"Mandatory detention is just not in the Canadian tradition. We think it's not Charter-proof, as a result."

The bill would increase the minimum fines and jail terms for those caught bringing illegal aliens to Canada.

It would also affect the people being smuggled. Refugees could spend as much as a year in detention facilities while their claims were being processed.

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Maybe if the bill punished the criminals rather than the victims, maybe they'd vote for it.

Maybe if Canadians believed cue jumpers were victims instead of criminals, usurping their place from legitimate refugees, the Liberals would get popular support for this.

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Maybe if Canadians believed cue jumpers were victims instead of criminals, usurping their place from legitimate refugees, the Liberals would get popular support for this.

What's their excuse, anyway?

I thought I could read, at one time, but where in the Constitution, or the Charter, does it say that just anyone can come to live in this country? What is the imagined charter breech?

Seriously. This was Mr. Dither's claim, about same-sex marriage -- it was required by the Charter!!! I never figured that one out, either.

Perhaps it is a testament to the way law is practiced in this country. The real law-makers are the courts, and they do whatever they want. Maybe they're banking on the people being, by this time, so confused by this legal mumbo-jumbo that they just hold their heads when they hear the argument that it's in the Constitution ... as if the Constitution is there to protect the rights of illegal immigrants.

Iggy ought to go back to the US, where the Dems are doing the same thing.

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Did you really expect anything else from the Liberals?

Actually in light of their support for mandatory sentencing for something like pot I really don't understand why they would vote against this.

"Mandatory detention is just not in the Canadian tradition. We think it's not Charter-proof, as a result."

The Liberals are filled with so much crap it's ridiculous.

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Okay, I know its been mentioned but how does this sync with the mandatory sentences for weed? Or is growing a plant far more serious than human smuggling?

Well the people calling for harsh weed sentences are organized criminals, trial lawyers, and pharaceutical companies. They probably just lobby better.

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Maybe if Canadians believed cue jumpers were victims instead of criminals, usurping their place from legitimate refugees, the Liberals would get popular support for this.

Rhetoric like this is not only over the top but factually wrong. Refugees aren't cue jumpers because they can't be cue jumpers. Refugees can only apply for protection after they've arrived in Canada.

Any statement to the contrary is just ignorance or a willful attempt to decieve to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment.

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Rhetoric like this is not only over the top but factually wrong. Refugees aren't cue jumpers because they can't be cue jumpers. Refugees can only apply for protection after they've arrived in Canada.

Any statement to the contrary is just ignorance or a willful attempt to decieve to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment.

I do agree. There is no queue for a refugee to jump. Stating such is ignorant.

However, I agree with this bill that those who do come here should be detained until their hearing. I don't think that is treating them as criminals. It is ensuring the integrity of our border and safety of our citizens.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/11/08/16035881.html

IRB statistics released Monday show 9,100 refugee claimants were accepted by Canadian authorities from January to September of 2010, while another 9,800 were rejected. Those totals include cases from previous years.

During the same time period, 3,300 cases were withdrawn and 1,174 claimants failed to show up for hearings.

13% don't show up for their refugee hearing. This is alarming to me.

Even more alarming:

Enforcement officials said there are 15,000 failed claimants awaiting deportation and 38,000 unsuccessful applicants whose whereabouts are unknown.

So the Libs propose to do...... nothing?

If you don't detain people, how do you ensure that they are removed from the country? Obviously what we have been doing is an utter failure.

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So the Libs propose to do...... nothing?

If you don't detain people, how do you ensure that they are removed from the country? Obviously what we have been doing is an utter failure.

They're in a no-win situation. There was an editorial from the Globe today saying the Liberals should work with the government to remove the punitive measures against refugees. I agree, but the opposite side of the argument is that you'd absolutely know that if they did decide to cooperate, they'd be called weak. It's politics and political considerations have to be made.

As for legislation coming from the opposition? What's the point until after an election. There's every indication that pretty much all private members bills that aren't supported by the CPC in the house are going to be turfed in the senate.

The funniest things about these boards and Canadians who really don't like the LPC, there's a constant cacophony of opinion that the Liberals are too arrogant and shouldn't assume that they're the natural governing party. Yet, whenever something like this happens the question "Well what are the Liberals going to do about it?" Is constantly asked as if they're still in government. They're the opposition, they're there to oppose and criticise and not craft Conservative policy for the lazy idiots in the government benches who clearly can't do it themselves. This bill has been the first real thing on the agenda since the long gun registry and EVERYONE think's it's a stinker. No one believes it'll pass a charter challenge.

Edited by nicky10013
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Rhetoric like this is not only over the top but factually wrong. Refugees aren't cue jumpers because they can't be cue jumpers. Refugees can only apply for protection after they've arrived in Canada.

Fake refugees are cue jumpers. Fake refugees who convince the government they are real refugees are criminals.

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Rhetoric like this is not only over the top but factually wrong. Refugees aren't cue jumpers because they can't be cue jumpers. Refugees can only apply for protection after they've arrived in Canada.

Any statement to the contrary is just ignorance or a willful attempt to decieve to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment.

What a load of hang wringing nonsense....

You surely must believe that no one had ever falsely claimed refugee status in Canada....and that everyone deserves a spot here.

I don't and most don't either.

Anti immigrant sentiment, my ass..these cue jumpers aren't immigrants. Immigrants stand in line....

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I do agree. There is no queue for a refugee to jump. Stating such is ignorant.

]

Again, you are under the assumption that everyone who applies for refugee status is in fact a refugee and that is simply not the case. And when they disappear into the woodwork, they are illegal immigrants, anbd getting rid of them is like hetting rid of herpes.

Far simpler to quarentine them and once there claims have been vetted, allow them in or send them back.

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They're in a no-win situation. There was an editorial from the Globe today saying the Liberals should work with the government to remove the punitive measures against refugees. I agree, but the opposite side of the argument is that you'd absolutely know that if they did decide to cooperate, they'd be called weak. It's politics and political considerations have to be made.

Really? They would be called weak for standing up for what they believe in, coming up with a platform that is current and topical and paying attention to the views of Canadians? That's weak? No weakness is constantly being reactionary and that seems to be the Libs modus operandi. With a lack of imagination or foresight, just stall.

As for legislation coming from the opposition? What's the point until after an election. There's every indication that pretty much all private members bills that aren't supported by the CPC in the house are going to be turfed in the senate.

Ah yes, the Liberal wet dream. An election. In which they will lose again because they simply lack, well, anything close resembling a coherent platform or the balls to put one out there.

The funniest things about these boards and Canadians who really don't like the LPC, there's a constant cacophony of opinion that the Liberals are too arrogant and shouldn't assume that they're the natural governing party. Yet, whenever something like this happens the question "Well what are the Liberals going to do about it?" Is constantly asked as if they're still in government.

Nu-uh. It is constantly asked of them because they are the main opposition party in a minority Parliament.

They're the opposition, they're there to oppose and criticise and not craft Conservative policy for the lazy idiots in the government benches who clearly can't do it themselves.

Come off it. The CPC crafts legislation to address what they perceive to be a current problem that has the attention of Canadians and the Libs simply oppose it. Really, who is being lazy here? Clearly the Liberals are. They have every chance to add their input, seek compromise and consensus and the sum total of their acts is to simply oppose - like crybabies. Those are the public optics. Whatever their backroom powerplays are, they are being played to an empty arena and come election time, no one will give a damn about how clever they think they were.

This bill has been the first real thing on the agenda since the long gun registry and EVERYONE think's it's a stinker. No one believes it'll pass a charter challenge.

Oh yes, the CPC has the unmitgated gall to actually express something about a current issue rather than sit behind the Charter and create revenue streams back to their constiuencies from big federal departments. No one remembers that. Eh?

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What a load of hang wringing nonsense....

You surely must believe that no one had ever falsely claimed refugee status in Canada....and that everyone deserves a spot here.

I don't and most don't either.

Anti immigrant sentiment, my ass..these cue jumpers aren't immigrants. Immigrants stand in line....

Of course they do. Most don't however. To think all do, as you put it so elegantly is a bunch of and wringing nonsense. Don't destroy the system because a few take advantage of it. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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Of course they do. Most don't however.

From an earlier post...

9,100 refugee claimants were accepted by Canadian authorities from January to September of 2010, while another 9,800 were rejected

Most are fakes....

To think all do, as you put it

so elegantly

I know you will start shrieking like a little girl shouting semantics....but where did I put it so elegantly put it that all do?

Don't destroy the system because a few take advantage of it. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

No pretending only a few when it is most is spiting your face.... Wasting our time, resources and money on fake refugees is spiting our face. Paying them to live here is spiting our face. Allowing them the opportunity to vanish is spiting our face.

Putting them in quarantine isn't destroying the system, it's fixing it.

Edited by M.Dancer
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Really? They would be called weak for standing up for what they believe in, coming up with a platform that is current and topical and paying attention to the views of Canadians? That's weak? No weakness is constantly being reactionary and that seems to be the Libs modus operandi. With a lack of imagination or foresight, just stall.

Considering the CPC has broken pretty much every promise it has ever made on everything but the GST, the fact that you're question the Liberals here is hilarious.

Furthermore, who says this isn't the Liberals standing up for what they believe in? They clearly really don't like certain provisions in the bill so why not oppose it? Why not kill it now and do it better when in government?

Ah yes, the Liberal wet dream. An election. In which they will lose again because they simply lack, well, anything close resembling a coherent platform or the balls to put one out there.

Another thing I wouldn't be exactly trumpeting. Rather than actually coming up with a program the last go around, the CPC decided to spend their war chest and attack ads. With their poll numbers sinking they had to release a couple of clumsy documents to appease the calls of why the election is necessary and where is Harper's platform?

As for the Liberals, the platform is there. They just don't want to put it out due to fears that the CPC will run countless attack ads against it. It's a reasonable political calculation. I don't agree with it. The CPC will for sure attack, but that will just make them look even more like the vindictive bullies the Conservatives really are.

Nu-uh. It is constantly asked of them because they are the main opposition party in a minority Parliament.

Riiiiiiiiight.

Come off it. The CPC crafts legislation to address what they perceive to be a current problem that has the attention of Canadians and the Libs simply oppose it. Really, who is being lazy here? Clearly the Liberals are. They have every chance to add their input, seek compromise and consensus and the sum total of their acts is to simply oppose - like crybabies. Those are the public optics. Whatever their backroom powerplays are, they are being played to an empty arena and come election time, no one will give a damn about how clever they think they were.

You're living in a dream world. This is a government that only ever takes input when it's in trouble. They took consultations on EI over the summer because they were afraid of an election. They implemented stimulus because of the coalition threat. The rest? They disrupt parliament and parliamentary committees everywhere they can. Last year during the torture hearings none of the CPC members of the committee would attend so the meetings had to be cancelled. A parliamentary motion passed to restore the census. The government ignored it. A motion was passed for the opposition to see documents. The government ignored it until they were censured by the Speaker of the House. They even suspended parliament over it. They suspended parliament so they could avoid a confidence vote.

How can you give input to a body that willfully ignores it?

Oh yes, the CPC has the unmitgated gall to actually express something about a current issue rather than sit behind the Charter and create revenue streams back to their constiuencies from big federal departments. No one remembers that. Eh?

Hahahahaha. You're kidding right? The next time you come around with your righteous indignation, please, read this article first.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/11/15/politics-all-the-way-down/

Perhaps there may once have been this great tension between Harper In Reality and the Harper Who May Exist in Theory, wrestling with each other over every great decision. Probably it was a struggle, jettisoning long-held convictions for short-term political gain—the first couple of times. But after the 50th or 60th time I can’t imagine he even notices. So we should stop pretending he does: stop crediting the Tories with scruples they show no outward sign of possessing.

Edited by nicky10013
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Considering the CPC has broken pretty much every promise it has ever made on everything but the GST, the fact that you're question the Liberals here is hilarious.

Is that semantics or do you think most people have poor memories?

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Is this the Bill that the Tories want to trigger an election?

Could be. If you read the comments on media websites, the vast majority of commenters are pissed at the opposition parties who have said they will block the bill. There's a huge cry for an election over this. You can check some of them if you like.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20101201/liberal-smuggling-101201/20101201/?hub=TorontoNewHome

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/12/01/16394716.html#/news/canada/2010/12/01/pf-16394826.html

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indepthanalysis/story/2010/12/01/liberals-will-vote-against-human-smuggling-law.html#socialcomments (925 comments)

And this Globe editorial.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/on-refugees-liberals-seek-a-safe-haven/article1821303/comments/

In addition, talk shows have been inundated with calls from angry Canadians calling for a confidence motion over the bill.

Anti-smuggling and in fact the whole question of immigration is shaping up to be a winner for the Conservatives in an election.

After all, it only Harper who has called for election and not the oppsitions parties.

The spineless Liberals have continually danced to the tune of the government. Let's see if the Liberals stick to their principles on this one or fold like a cheap suit as they've been doing to avoid an election. The opposition battle over the anti-smuggling bill will not be fought with the Conservatives but with the Canadian voters.

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