Will the Ontario Budget help hydro customers?

[Topaz]

The Liberals are bring down a budget on Thursday and they said to cut hydro bills by 10%. My question is on what amount? Is it the actual cost of hydro used or is it after all the add-ons? There is a big difference of the two. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/17112010/71/central-ontario-energy-minister-promises-action-thursday-lower-cost-hydro.html

[M.Dancer]

The Liberals are bring down a budget on Thursday and they said to cut hydro bills by 10%. My question is on what amount? Is it the actual cost of hydro used or is it after all the add-ons? There is a big difference of the two. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/17112010/71/central-ontario-energy-minister-promises-action-thursday-lower-cost-hydro.html

If the cut is on the bill then it is the total paid by the consumer.

The Liberal government will cut Ontarians’ hydro bills by 10 per cent starting on Jan. 1, the Star has learned.

Finance Minister Dwight Duncan, bolstered by a $1 billion reduction in the provincial deficit, is to announce “substantial hydro relief” in Thursday’s fall economic statement.

With the average hydro bill in Ontario about $125 a month, a $12.50 monthly reduction would be worth $150 a year to ratepayers and cost the treasury about $1 billion annually.

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/891861--liberals-to-cut-hydro-bills-by-10-per-cent

[Michael Hardner]

The Ontario Liberals are unable to manage... well, anything.

If they cut hydro bills, then they will just move the costs to taxes. Or will they just lose that revenue ? Maybe, if the economy improves. But having a low deficit during boom years isn't sustainable.

I'm cynical about this, as you can tell.

[Argus]

The Ontario Liberals are unable to manage... well, anything.

If they cut hydro bills, then they will just move the costs to taxes. Or will they just lose that revenue ? Maybe, if the economy improves. But having a low deficit during boom years isn't sustainable.

I'm cynical about this, as you can tell.

A low deficit? I don't think that's McGuinty's style. The deficit will be enormous, and he'll find a way to try and blame it on Mike Harris somehow. Cutting the hydro rate to put it on taxes is stupid. We still wind up paying for it, only those who don't take care to use as little energy as possible will be further subsidized by those who do.

[scribblet]

They have admitted that the money to cut hydro bills will be coming from - guess where - your taxes LOL

[capricorn]

Proof positive that this hydro rate reduction move is meant as a vote buyer is that large companies are excluded from the reduced rate. Why wasn't the cut across the board? If companies like Loblaws, Zellers or Walmart were to be included in reduced hydro costs by 10% surely some of those savings would have dribbled down to consumer goods. Speculation on my part of course.

[Topaz]

Proof positive that this hydro rate reduction move is meant as a vote buyer is that large companies are excluded from the reduced rate. Why wasn't the cut across the board? If companies like Loblaws, Zellers or Walmart were to be included in reduced hydro costs by 10% surely some of those savings would have dribbled down to consumer goods. Speculation on my part of course.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but businesses, can deduct expenses on their taxes.

[Topaz]

The Tory is saying also it just a way to get votes , which could be true, but HE does support the move by the Libs and I wonder what HE would do with the hydro rates and the Harper's Sin Tax, if HE was Premier? I know he was asked that in Windsor,ON and when asked about doing away with the tax, he said "I didn't say that". The Tories are always saying what he Libs are doing or saying but I've never heard what they would actually do.

[Oleg Bach]

Between media corporate shrills like John Tory - and weasils like McGinty...we are at a loss for justice when it comes to the fair payment of power provided the people - NOW it has been announced that the government will "take out a loan" so as to give us cheaper and more fair rates - I put it this way..why not just increase service charge at the banks and jack up the interest rates - that would be more honest ...After all WHO is this loan going to be gotten from, at at what rate? Why the banks of course....why does the government not do the right thing and talk to their lenders and say - "Hey how about lending us some cash interest free?" -

No matter what the whole massive population will be coerced and extorted no matter what colour or flavour of favour you seemingly use.

[Argus]

The Tory is saying also it just a way to get votes , which could be true, but HE does support the move by the Libs and I wonder what HE would do with the hydro rates and the Harper's Sin Tax, if HE was Premier?

The problem is the massive increases in electricity costs are largely driven by the Liberals'desperate to get "clean energy" at any cost. The new energy sources they're bringing on line cost 3-5 times as much as traditional power sources, and the more than come on line the more expensive energy costs are going to get in Ontario.

So how many manufacturers or big power users are going to choose to locate in a province where their energy costs will be double or triple what it is in neighboring jurisidictions?

[guyser]

So how many manufacturers or big power users are going to choose to locate in a province where their energy costs will be double or triple what it is in neighboring jurisidictions?

A consideration no doubt, but only one of many. For instance,travel and shipping, proximity to client base, corp tax rate, availability of workers and so on.

Edited November 18, 2010 by guyser

[capricorn]

The problem is the massive increases in electricity costs are largely driven by the Liberals'desperate to get "clean energy" at any cost.

The Premier assures us this is what families said they want.

“One of the things families are now telling us they are concerned about are electricity rates. They are going up. Families tell us they like the idea of clean energy. They like it because it means we can shut down coal and take smog and pollution out of the air,” he said.

“Now electricity rates are a real and pressing issue,” he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/892349--hydro-bill-relief-not-about-politics-mcguinty-says?bn=1

So families will get a 10% reduction on their hydro bill (paid for by their tax dollars) while hydro rates are expected to increase by 46% in the next five years. Something's wrong with this picture.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/11/18/16204611.html

With an election in 11 months, the smell of fear coming from the Ontario Liberals is unmistakable. They can't be panicked enough for my liking.

[Topaz]

Sonow we know that we get 10% discount on the hydro's bill bottom line but it doesn't start till Jan/11. I can see that Ontario is going to be, if we aren't now, a real mess. It was pointed out that Ontario sells hydro to the US for as litlle as 4cents a K. No wonder we are losing and with NFLD expanding their hydro supply to the US in the near future, Ontario may lose that market and I'm wondering if that happens would Ontario have a surplus of hydro and then the prices would fall?? Am I dreaming? I can also see people changing over theit cooking stoves to gas, hot water tanks to gas, if they can. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/19112010/71/central-hydro-prices-despite-10-cut.html

[Michael Hardner]

The problem is the massive increases in electricity costs are largely driven by the Liberals'desperate to get "clean energy" at any cost. The new energy sources they're bringing on line cost 3-5 times as much as traditional power sources, and the more than come on line the more expensive energy costs are going to get in Ontario.

So how many manufacturers or big power users are going to choose to locate in a province where their energy costs will be double or triple what it is in neighboring jurisidictions?

IS that what is driving the costs ? I believe you may be right, but let's have a link...

This is another economic area where Ontarians act like sheepish sheep.

[Michael Hardner]

Sonow we know that we get 10% discount on the hydro's bill bottom line but it doesn't start till Jan/11. I can see that Ontario is going to be, if we aren't now, a real mess. It was pointed out that Ontario sells hydro to the US for as litlle as 4cents a K. No wonder we are losing and with NFLD expanding their hydro supply to the US in the near future, Ontario may lose that market and I'm wondering if that happens would Ontario have a surplus of hydro and then the prices would fall?? Am I dreaming? I can also see people changing over theit cooking stoves to gas, hot water tanks to gas, if they can. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/19112010/71/central-hydro-prices-despite-10-cut.html

The Liberal announcement yesterday is ridiculous. I think this may well kill them for re-election.

Are we getting a new reactor with the 50% hike that's coming over 5 years ? Does anybody know ? Google search didn't help me...

[bush_cheney2004]

IS that what is driving the costs ? I believe you may be right, but let's have a link...

This is another economic area where Ontarians act like sheepish sheep.

If the average 10% annual savings will be $125 CAD, that means current hydro bills are averaging $1250. What is using all that juice? Grow ops!?

[Michael Hardner]

If the average 10% annual savings will be $125 CAD, that means current hydro bills are averaging $1250. What is using all that juice? Grow ops!?

Why do you care about Canada ?!? (Hardner screamed, in kind...)

Is it the grow ops ?!?

[bush_cheney2004]

Why do you care about Canada ?!? (Hardner screamed, in kind...)

Is it the grow ops ?!?

Irritating....huh??

[Michael Hardner]

Irritating....huh??

Are you kidding ? An American paying attention to us ? This is what we dream of !

[bush_cheney2004]

Are you kidding ? An American paying attention to us ? This is what we dream of !

Ummm...OK....so what the hell are all those kilowatts doing in Ontario besides polluting the air in New York (from Nanticoke)? My "hydro" averages about $75 per month.

[Oleg Bach]

The problem is human depleation of conservative attitudes..The average 20 year old consumer believes that power comes out of the wall for free...If my kid runs electronics...leaves every light on that he touches...and continues to consume power mindlessly - all efforts will fail to maintain a reliable and cheap source of power..Now if MY kid uses power for no reason...eg...uses power when he is NOT using it...then - think of a million people like him doing it all at the same time... It is utter non-sense to go on about this stuff when we have trained a generation of users that power is free...I guess they powers that be like to have more mindless addicts using things they don't need..at a premium price.

Oh - and also - when bank towers in the heat of summer have employess that bring in portable heaters because the AC is not managed.. I guess you get the point...There is a lack of intelligent use..

[Archanfel]

Just want to point out that the $6.5 billion will not come directly from taxpayers, but borrowed, which means the taxpayers will pay that plus interests in the future. We are already a very high carrying cost ($9.7B according to national post) on our massive debt($220B). That's $734.26 per person just to pay interests. Likely much higher per taxpayer.

Also note that the 3.6% annual increases does not include inflation, which means the actual increase will be around 5.6%.

[capricorn]

A 10% cut off my hydro bills means I can increase my electricity consumption by 10% and break even. I suspect quite a few more Ontarians will think along those lines, especially this winter for those dependent on electric heat. How good is that for the Ontario government's message of energy conservation, uh?

Hudak has not committed to eliminating the HST from hydro bills. But yesterday he laid out in clear terms where he stands on the HST in general.

When asked if he would cut the controversial HST, Hudak said it would cost taxpayers billions of dollars to reverse "the damage'' that was already done by the tax.

Hudak told QMI Agency while it likely isn't possible to scrap the HST, there are other options including reducing it by one or two percentage points.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2853955

[TimG]

If they cut hydro bills, then they will just move the costs to taxes. Or will they just lose that revenue ? Maybe, if the economy improves. But having a low deficit during boom years isn't sustainable.

It was the McGinty's "green energy" scams that contributed to this mess. It is only get worse until Ontario elects some politicians who understand the job of the hydro is to deliever reliable electricity at the lowest cost. Hydro is not some plaything for grandstanding politicians who don't understand economics.

[Michael Hardner]

It was the McGinty's "green energy" scams that contributed to this mess. It is only get worse until Ontario elects some politicians who understand the job of the hydro is to deliever reliable electricity at the lowest cost. Hydro is not some plaything for grandstanding politicians who don't understand economics.

Yes, I saw that mentioned in the SUN.

What I`d like to see, though, is a breakdown that shows what the increases are for.