Before Moving To Canada....

[dizzy]

It was clear that the discussion was over....no kiss, but a second date is possible.

Your arguments were not reaching their intended goal, i.e. that canadians don't have a clear identity. When specific examples were provided, the evidence provided demonstrated that we do. I actually don't like many elements of it, but I don't question its existence.

Then why did you fight off mine?

Which point did I fight off? I responded, right?

[bush_cheney2004]

Your arguments were not reaching their intended goal, i.e. that canadians don't have a clear identity. When specific examples were provided, the evidence provided demonstrated that we do. I actually don't like many elements of it, but I don't question its existence.

There are tomes dedicated to this very topic written by Canadians for Canadians...I shall not pretend to do better. And no, not even your great objective nomadic powers can do better.

Which point did I fight off? I responded, right?

In an odd turn, you attempted to prove that "white Canadians" would never match my concoction concerning "inarticulate" labeling through the bedrock method of a Google search.

[dizzy]

There are tomes dedicated to this very topic written by Canadians for Canadians...I shall not pretend to do better. And no, not even your great objective nomadic powers can do better.

And yet you tried... hence this thread.

Yes, as you imply, there are many views on canada by canadians. The only thing absent in this thread is a compelling argument that the one you propose is one we should all subscribe to.

In an odd turn, you attempted to prove that "white Canadians" would never match my concoction concerning "inarticulate" labeling through the bedrock method of a Google search.

You clearly weren't aware of at least one notable reality for blacks in america. I simply offered google as a tool to illuminate on the subject of identity conflict, much as you did when you fished out the 6 yr old article we are debating.

BTW, the offer is still there to pick up on the civil discussion that ended with me challenging your last non-trolly points. I can provide the link again...

[bush_cheney2004]

And yet you tried... hence this thread.

...and succeeded beyond my wildest imagination. Just watch the churn!

Yes, as you imply, there are many views on canada by canadians. The only thing absent in this thread is a compelling argument that the one you propose is one we should all subscribe to.

It is not implied...it is fact. This is not my fault.....except for being American?

You clearly weren't aware of at least one notable reality for blacks in america. I simply offered google as a tool to illuminate on the subject of identity conflict, much as you did when you fished out the 6 yr old article we are debating.

Nonsense...I will always know more about being "black in America" than you. How patronizing can you be?

BTW, the offer is still there to pick up on the civil discussion that ended with me challenging your last non-trolly points. I can provide the link again...

Sheeesh...this is very important to you? Sorry, but I am presently protecting America's honor from marauding Canaucks in another thread, and frankly, that's a lot more fun!

[dizzy]

...and succeeded beyond my wildest imagination. Just watch the churn!

It is not implied...it is fact. This is not my fault.....except for being American?

So you're objective was to irritate? Honestly, BC, I'm quite ready to continue the debate as I found it interesting. But no lost sleep here.

I haven't name called you for being american, so the oppressed stance is not required.

Nonsense...I will always know more about being "black in America" than you. How patronizing can you be?

You're always welcome to prove this with evidence. There is no debate that many black americans find insult in being called articulate. I simply used it as a comparison to the flaws I outlined in your and your author's rhetoric.

Sheeesh...this is very important to you? Sorry, but I am presently protecting America's honor from marauding Canaucks in another thread, and frankly, that's a lot more fun!

I never suggested it was 'very important' to me. I'm having a lazy sunday today, with time and interest to embrace this conversation. I do understand that I misunderstood your intent earlier. What I see now is that you can debate reasonably until you run out of space, then it's all about your troll count! Glad to have supported you in this very important endeavour by adding to your post total today.

[bush_cheney2004]

So you're objective was to irritate? Honestly, BC, I'm quite ready to continue the debate as I found it interesting. But no lost sleep here.

Dude! This is played out...done...finite...it was good while it lasted. American Woman added to the mix nicely, but really, it is time to move on unless a fresh wrinkle emerges. Please continue as you wish with others so inclined.

I haven't name called you for being american, so the oppressed stance is not required.

Then please spend as much effort separating implications from fact. I did not invent the concept of a tortured Canadian identity...Canadians did!

You're always welcome to prove this with evidence. There is no debate that many black americans find insult in being called articulate. I simply used it as a comparison to the flaws I outlined in your and your author's rhetoric.

Many more take offense at being called inarticulate. I am going to pull rank on you here, being both black and American for longer than you have been alive. There are many complex aspects to African American culture (not monolithic) that don't lend themselves well to snippets on a Canadian forum.

I never suggested it was 'very important' to me. I'm having a lazy sunday today, with time and interest to embrace this conversation. I do understand that I misunderstood your intent earlier. What I see now is that you can debate reasonably until you run out of space, then it's all about your troll count! Glad to have supported you in this very important endeavour by adding to your post total today.

Thank you, if only because this means the end of our fun ride....for now. I appreciate your understanding at this time, as there are other less "articulate" knuckleheads to deal with elsewhere, plus we are engaged in serious snow management in our neck of Norte America (yes, black people can do that).

[dizzy]

Dude! This is played out...done...finite...it was good while it lasted. American Woman added to the mix nicely, but really, it is time to move on unless a fresh wrinkle emerges. Please continue as you wish with others so inclined.

If AW and I continue our civil discussion, what I can expect from her is that, even when she gets upset, she won't disparage... evidence from the american front that an entire people should not be characterized as having one perspective that governs all things.

Then please spend as much effort separating implications from fact. I did not invent the concept of a tortured Canadian identity...Canadians did!

I spent the effort, you chose not to navigate your way out of the corner you painted yourself into. BTW, There's nothing tortured about having a constantly evolving and unformed identity. It's part of what I love about being canadian and why I continue to contribute to this thread.

Many more take offense at being called inarticulate. I am going to pull rank on you here, being both black and American for longer than you have been alive. There are many complex aspects to African American culture (not monolithic) that don't lend themselves well to snippets on a Canadian forum.

I wish you could see this comment through the looking glass...

If you can offer sage advice on being canadian, why can I not on being african-american? What I've done is considerably more honourable than your 2D perspective on canadians, as I never suggested the 'articulate accusation' was the normal experience for all african americans. In fact, I highly doubt that most african americans suffer the complimentary curse of being considered articulate by white americans, if you know what I mean

Thank you, if only because this means the end of our fun ride....for now. I appreciate your understanding at this time, as there are other less "articulate" knuckleheads to deal with elsewhere, plus we are engaged in serious snow management in our neck of Norte America (yes, black people can do that).

No worries, I'm brown and grew up surrounded by south asian, south-east and east asian, west indian, african people. So you can understand why I have no attachments to your idea that, just because a bunch of people live together, they share one static identity. Happy shoveling... I can relate more than many americans, as this is one other dimension of identity that does not cleanly align with political borders.

[bush_cheney2004]

If AW and I continue our civil discussion, what I can expect from her is that, even when she gets upset, she won't disparage... evidence from the american front that an entire people should not be characterized as having one perspective that governs all things.

We already stated that...see..you are rehashing old ground...boring.

I spent the effort, you chose not to navigate your way out of the corner you painted yourself into. BTW, There's nothing tortured about having a constantly evolving and unformed identity. It's part of what I love about being canadian and why I continue to contribute to this thread.

Yes, clearly you are very invested in this concept...but it is only one of many ideas that entertains me so. I admire your loyalty and courage fending off the dispraging American, but be careful, it might even be construed as "patriotic"....can't have that now can we?

I wish you could see this comment through the looking glass...

I'll survive...much football to watch instead.

If you can offer sage advice on being canadian, why can I not on being african-american? What I've done is considerably more honourable than your 2D perspective on canadians, as I never suggested the 'articulate accusation' was the normal experience for all african americans. In fact, I highly doubt that most african americans suffer the complimentary curse of being considered articulate by white americans, if you know what I mean

No, I don't know what you mean. Your self annointed nomadic global man stchick was interesting, but now you just want to fight on the edges. Canadian identity has ben the topic of several other threads...2D, 3D...nD.

No worries, I'm brown and grew up surrounded by south asian, south-east and east asian, west indian, african people. So you can understand why I have no attachments to your idea that, just because a bunch of people live together, they share one static identity. Happy shoveling... I can relate more than many americans, as this is one other dimension of identity that does not cleanly align with political borders.

I am an American who just happens to be black...see the difference?

[dizzy]

We already stated that...see..you are rehashing old ground...boring.

So we agree that drawing caricatures of entire nations is boring? I'm not sure what that does for your OP.

Yes, clearly you are very invested in this concept...but it is only one of many ideas that entertains me so. I admire your loyalty and courage fending off the dispraging American, but be careful, it might even be construed as "patriotic"....can't have that now can we?

Of course I'm invested in this concept, I live here! If I didn't like this society's experiment, I'd simply move.

You keep playing cards that I'm not assigning to you... american.... african american... I'm simply approaching you as an individual.

I'll survive...much football to watch instead.

No relevance to the point. Try again.

No, I don't know what you mean. Your self annointed nomadic global man stchick was interesting, but now you just want to fight on the edges. Canadian identity has ben the topic of several other threads...2D, 3D...nD.

I'm sure it has. I don't spend a lot of time in this forum, but I am well exposed to the discourse. As I've mentioned, it's an interesting discussion. Your 18000+ posts here suggest that you would agree.

I'm not sure where the nomadic global man schtick accusation comes from. I'd love for you to point to where I used it to dominate the discussion. As I see it, you're simply using it the way your republican/tea party types do when speaking about city-folk, to diminish an experience that doesn't suit your own.

I am an American who just happens to be black...see the difference?

Once again, I don't care about your nation or race statistics... only your words. See the difference?

[bush_cheney2004]

So we agree that drawing caricatures of entire nations is boring? I'm not sure what that does for your OP.

The OP stands as is...your opinion has been noted and added to the mix.

I'm sure it has. I don't spend a lot of time in this forum, but I am well exposed to the discourse. As I've mentioned, it's an interesting discussion. Your 18000+ posts here suggest that you would agree.

Ummmm...yea..that's why I started the thread, much to the objection of some others who don't wished to be nagged about this touchy topic.

I'm not sure where the nomadic global man schtick accusation comes from. I'd love for you to point to where I used it to dominate the discussion. As I see it, you're simply using it the way your republican/tea party types do when speaking about city-folk, to diminish an experience that doesn't suit your own.

They are not my types, but you have done the same thing with this statement. And that's OK.

Once again, I don't care about your nation or race statistics... only your words. See the difference?

There are no races....just social constructions. See the difference?

Edited December 12, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[dizzy]

The OP stands as is...your opinion has been noted and added to the mix.

.

Ummmm...yea..that's why I started the thread, much to the objection of some others who don't wished to be nagged about this touchy topic.

From what I've read here, some were not objecting to the topic but how and from whom it was presented. I've witnessed some one-note canadians on american threads whose opinions are immediately discredited in a similar manner. Of course, you'll also find people everywhere who just don't want to be challenged by outsiders. It's not unique to this forum or to canadians.

They are not my types, but you have done the same thing with this statement. And that's OK.

I'm pointing to demonstrable behaviour. Do you have a point then about my nomadic global man schtick?

There are no races....just social constructions. See the difference?

Race and national identity are both social constructions. As descriptors, they are blunt instruments, not in any way useful except as a starting point. Your author failed to move beyond these rugged impressions before moving to a new land. You don't find that sloppy?

[bush_cheney2004]

From what I've read here, some were not objecting to the topic but how and from whom it was presented.

Well...that's part of my legacy here after 18,000+ posts. They can't figure out why I'm not banned yet, but the truth is, I'm great for ratings!

I'm pointing to demonstrable behaviour. Do you have a point then about my nomadic global man schtick?

The point was that assuming a more objective view is just more of the same. No extra points for you or me.

Race and national identity are both social constructions. As descriptors, they are blunt instruments, not in any way useful except as a starting point. Your author failed to move beyond these rugged impressions before moving to a new land. You don't find that sloppy?

The author did not go there...she did not invoke race...you did.

[dizzy]

Well...that's part of my legacy here after 18,000+ posts. They can't figure out why I'm not banned yet, but the truth is, I'm great for ratings!

Or maybe you're experiencing the canadian tolerance you misrepresent? People can dislike your manner and still allow you to exist, not unlike the US and many other liberal democracies.

The point was that assuming a more objective view is just more of the same. No extra points for you or me.

Well, I disagree. points to me for not trying to make you feel small. I knew what you should have, that it wouldn't work.

The author did not go there...she did not invoke race...you did.

I made an example that reflected upon a real conflict between people represented by two social constructs, to demonstrate that weakness of not moving beyond rugged impressions about a people before interacting with them. Again, you don't find that sloppy?

[bush_cheney2004]

Or maybe you're experiencing the canadian tolerance you misrepresent? People can dislike your manner and still allow you to exist, not unlike the US and many other liberal democracies.

No...this forum has standards of behaviour that I don't cross...others have only to pay the price. Like a Mars rover, I have exceeded my design mission length many times over.

Well, I disagree. points to me for not trying to make you feel small. I knew what you should have, that it wouldn't work.

It matters not...your posts are not above reproach in that way, starting with the author. And after all, "assholes" are technically small things.

I made an example that reflected upon a real conflict between people represented by two social constructs, to demonstrate that weakness of not moving beyond rugged impressions about a people before interacting with them. Again, you don't find that sloppy?

Nope...your race laden example detracted from the topic of an expat's experience in Canada, regardless of race.

[dizzy]

No...this forum has standards of behaviour that I don't cross...others have only to pay the price. Like a Mars rover, I have exceeded my design mission length many times over.

So, if you play within the established rules, why would you expect to be banned?

It matters not...your posts are not above reproach in that way, starting with the author. And after all, "assholes" are technically small things.

They are not above reproach. And I have not called you anything I could not defend. What was the intention behind your calling me out for my nomadic global man schtick?

Nope...your race laden example detracted from the topic of an expat's experience in Canada, regardless of race.

I had provided another example, one that targeted similar behaviour from canadians toward americans and yet your ability to respond is obsessed on my valid acknowledgment that many blacks find insult when whites call them articulate? Why are you so sensitive about race?

Edited December 12, 2010 by dizzy

[bush_cheney2004]

So, if you play within the established rules, why would you expect to be banned?

I wouldn't expect to be banned, just as I wrote above. But I am still a guest in the end.

They are not above reproach. And I have not called you anything I could not defend. What was the intention behind your calling me out for my nomadic global man schtick?

To get you to obsess about it, just as you are doing. I read and understood your advertised worldly perspective, but it's the same as any other, that's all.

I had provided another example, one that targeted similar behaviour from canadians toward americans and yet your ability to respond is obsessed on my valid acknowledgment that many blacks find insult when whites call them articulate? Why are you so sensitive about race?

Because it was irrelevant to the topic, but important to you. I suspect that particular black stereotypes are popular with some Canadians, just as they are in the US. This is based on anecdotal experience here, other forums, and the workplace. My shorthand for this sentiment is that Canada can handle Africans, but not "uppity" Blacks.

[dizzy]

I wouldn't expect to be banned, just as I wrote above. But I am still a guest in the end.

So, why did you say you were surprised that you haven't yet been banned? I see nothing ban-worthy nor exceptional about your posts. Others have stated that they find them predictable. While your obsession with canadiana is noted, I find it curious, not offensive.

To get you to obsess about it, just as you are doing. I read and understood your advertised worldly perspective, but it's the same as any other, that's all.

I could as easily argue that your refusal to put down the baton on this discussion accomplishes the same. But I won't because that would be silly. You have reasons to be here right now, as do I. I'm more interested in testing the quality of your words. That's a normal part of debate.

Because it was irrelevant to the topic, but important to you. I suspect that particular black stereotypes are popular with some Canadians, just as they are in the US. This is based on anecdotal experience here, other forums, and the workplace. My shorthand for this sentiment is that Canada can handle Africans, but not "uppity" Blacks.

Yes, racism exists in Canada. I was just making a simple reference to a popular complaint that arose during your most recent presidential process. Likewise I also offered an example of canadian ignorance directed toward americans in the very same post. I'm surprised that a race reference would throw you into such a tailspin... and you keep playing the race card. FTR, I had no idea you were black before you claimed to be in this thread, and it affects my opinion of you in no way. I continue to judge your words on your ability to defend them. But your discomfort with race does prove my point that characterizations such as those portrayed in the author's op/ed can be without worth, even when they're meant to be kind.

[bush_cheney2004]

So, why did you say you were surprised that you haven't yet been banned? I see nothing ban-worthy nor exceptional about your posts. Others have stated that they find them predictable. While your obsession with canadiana is noted, I find it curious, not offensive.

I did not state that..go back and read it again. I specifically stated that I have not exceeded the boundaries established by forum rules. When necessary, I can torment my opponent with a deft jab...no need for the low blow. See Ali's development of "Rope-a-dope".

I could as easily argue that your refusal to put down the baton on this discussion accomplishes the same. But I won't because that would be silly. You have reasons to be here right now, as do I. I'm more interested in testing the quality of your words. That's a normal part of debate.

Agreed...as long as I remain interested, I will remain engaged. If not, it is not a personal slight. Nothing is owed here to anybody.

Yes, racism exists in Canada. I was just making a simple reference to a popular complaint that arose during your most recent presidential process. Likewise I also offered an example of canadian ignorance directed toward americans in the very same post. I'm surprised that a race reference would throw you into such a tailspin... and you keep playing the race card.

It was a departure from the main topic. A Canadian race reference is significant because it is an element of the very same smug and superior attitude opined by the author. But that wasn't your intention...you did not make that connection.

FTR, I had no idea you were black before you claimed to be in this thread, and it affects my opinion of you in no way. I continue to judge your words on your ability to defend them. But your discomfort with race does prove my point that characterizations such as those portrayed in the author's op/ed can be without worth, even when they're meant to be kind.

Discussions about race are welcomed in a healthy context, but not in a patronizing way. It is reflex for me to challenge any such statements with respect to race back at any national, including Americans.

[dizzy]

I did not state that..go back and read it again. I specifically stated that I have not exceeded the boundaries established by forum rules. When necessary, I can torment my opponent with a deft jab...no need for the low blow. See Ali's development of "Rope-a-dope".

You're right. I reread and you don't seem surprised that you're not banned. You are commenting on your perceptions of others' attitudes toward you.

Agreed...as long as I remain interested, I will remain engaged. If not, it is not a personal slight. Nothing is owed here to anybody.

I was asking you to defend a statement you made. I feel no personal slight.

It was a departure from the main topic. A Canadian race reference is significant because it is an element of the very same smug and superior attitude opined by the author. But that wasn't your intention...you did not make that connection.

Let me understand this, in a thread where you are making claims about canadians, you are feeling sensitive about reasonably comparable statements I've made about what is happening america? I used one reference closer to your personal experience alongside one closer to mine. In the same paragraph. I'm sure you know that part of exploring the worth of an idea involves comparing it to other possible world scenarios. I was not disparaging towards blacks or americans in my comparison.

Here's a reference, from the same institution that provided us with the fodder for this thread:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/01/AR2007020101495.html

Discussions about race are welcomed in a healthy context, but not in a patronizing way. It is reflex for me to challenge any such statements with respect to race back at any national, including Americans.

Again, I did not make disparaging comments wrt race and I've not shown any disrespect to americans in this thread, so park the baggage. This isn't therapy time.

[bush_cheney2004]

You're right. I reread and you don't seem surprised that you're not banned. You are commenting on your perceptions of others' attitudes toward you.

It's not an accident...you can see the behaviour of other members today wrt my membership and posts. I am a magnet for their anxieties....coaxing them to jump off the cliff.

I was asking you to defend a statement you made. I feel no personal slight.

They are just statements...this is not a courtroom. We are just grab-assing with a keyboard.

Let me understand this, in a thread where you are making claims about canadians, you are feeling sensitive about reasonably comparable statements I've made about what is happening america?

Not at all...I was simply pointing out the inconsistent tangent vis-a-vis "race".

I used one reference closer to your personal experience alongside one closer to mine. In the same paragraph. I'm sure you know that part of exploring the worth of an idea involves comparing it to other possible world scenarios. I was not disparaging towards blacks or americans in my comparison.

Yet you didn't know it at the time. So it had nothing to do with personalizing things. Your views of blacks, Americans, or even black Americans are your own.

Again, I did not make disparaging comments wrt race and I've not shown any disrespect to americans in this thread, so park the baggage. This isn't therapy time.

Yet it seems to be very important to you. Why did you bring such heavy baggage for such a short trip?

Edited December 13, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[dizzy]

It's not an accident...you can see the behaviour of other members today wrt my membership and posts. I am a magnet for their anxieties....coaxing them to jump off the cliff.

Like I've said, I've seen canadians in american threads blanket discredited because their tone was too often one-note. It makes sense to me that people will distrust another if he or she seems profoundly oriented toward shaming the majority of the group, especially when he or she is not a party to the group. Consider it more evidence of the tribalism we're discussing.

They are just statements...this is not a courtroom. We are just grab-assing with a keyboard.

I think your reaction when you thought I was attacking you by attacking blacks suggests otherwise. Despite the wonderful forward movements of the internet, most of us still respect old-fashioned notions like honesty and integrity.

Not at all...I was simply pointing out the inconsistent tangent vis-a-vis "race".

And I've more than explained it. It was one line projected in a proper context. I can't take responsibility for how you received it. sooooo.... moving on?

Yet you didn't know it at the time. So it had nothing to do with personalizing things. Your views of blacks, Americans, or even black Americans are your own.

I didn't know that you were american? Yes, I did. And I was not projecting a view on blacks. I was comparing how congratulating blacks for being articulate has the the same negative impact as expecting canadians to be peaceable. As you've stated, it's all about staying in place and not being 'uppity'.

Yet it seems to be very important to you. Why did you bring such heavy baggage for such a short trip?

I don't understand. please explain.

Edited December 13, 2010 by dizzy

[bush_cheney2004]

Like I've said, I've seen canadians in american threads blanket discredited because their tone was too often one-note. It makes sense to me that people will distrust another if he or she seems profoundly oriented toward shaming the majority of the group, especially when he or she is not a party to the group. Consider it more evidence of the tribalism we're discussing.

This group is too diverse for such alliances...sniping is common. My membership as a "yank" and unapologetic style irks some who would prefer an open mike without interference from any American, let alone an arrogant bastard such as I.

I think your reaction when you thought I was attacking you by attacking blacks suggests otherwise. Despite the wonderful forward movements of the internet, most of us still respect old-fashioned notions like honesty and integrity.

Quaint notions....not a primary objective. As stated earlier, I was more intrigued by the way you parsed "blacks" from "Americans", when clearly that is an imprecise way to relate the stereotype. The rest follows...

And I've more than explained it. It was one line projected in a proper context. I can't take responsibility for how you received it. sooooo.... moving on?

I hope so...black is black...even in Canada!

I don't understand. please explain.

Keep it light...save some powder for the next volley.

[dre]

There are many complex aspects to African American culture (not monolithic) that don't lend themselves well to snippets on a Canadian forum.

Yup. It would be stupid to issue broad generalizations against a whole race of people based on stupid stereotypes like "African Americans are inarticulate" etc. Almost as stupid as taking one Americans exerience in Canada and applying to a country of 30 million people.

Canadians that buy into these sorts of over generalizations about Americans are dullards that dont know how to think objectively or honestly. The exact same kind of people that would form an opinion about Canadas level of tolerance and civility based on one Americans bad experience here.

[Jack Weber]

Unfortunately,there are many Canadians who are very anti American.I think this feeling may come from a feeling of inferiority or perhaps jealousy.Most Canadians who feel this way are left leaning of course.There is an enormous amount of baggage that comes with being a superpower,something that Canada cannot experience.Damned if they do,damned if they don't.Right now,it seems there is less venom directed at the US from the Canadian media,no doubt because of America's first socialist leader.

Say what you want about US governments,but the people are the nicest you will ever meet.

Erm...yeah....

[dizzy]

This group is too diverse for such alliances...sniping is common. My membership as a "yank" and unapologetic style irks some who would prefer an open mike without interference from any American, let alone an arrogant bastard such as I.

Not me. I'm paying attention to words, not people's self-perception regarding their 'reputation'. This isn't high school, it's a discussion forum.

Quaint notions....not a primary objective. As stated earlier, I was more intrigued by the way you parsed "blacks" from "Americans", when clearly that is an imprecise way to relate the stereotype. The rest follows...

Or maybe, if you reread my post you'd notice I made no criticism of blacks. I was using a similar scenario, one you seem more than uncomfortable discussing, to illustrate why your OP was flawed. You've made reference to quebec sovereignty here, as a reflection on identity. I have no hyper sensitivities about about any of your comments. It would benefit your position to do the same.

I hope so...black is black...even in Canada!

Yup! So, in the following article we see how a compliment directed to blacks belies a more negative undertone:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/01/AR2007020101495.html

Does it provide you with any thoughts wrt how an unnecessarily flattering perspective of another group of people can be just as limiting as a negative one?

Keep it light...save some powder for the next volley.

I'm not keeping track of the score, just trying to have a discussion (and, in this case, looking for clarification on an obtusely laid point).