I just donated money to the Liberal Party of Canada

[Saipan]

Equating the Liberal Party of Canada with extreme Fascists and Marxists...

Good to see you've regained some semblence of lucidity....

I was talking SPECIFICS. (I.e. registration/confiscation)

How about you?

[Jack Weber]

Argus, I too was intrigued by this choice of candidate.

To be frank, I don't really know much about Fantino. He was police chief in Toronto and Ontario. He's running in a suburb of Toronto (Woodbridge?) with many voters of Italian origin.

I have no problem with Harper playing politics the way the federal Liberals typically do. Harper needs a majority.

But here's the fundamental question, as your donation shows.

----

I think that this theory of incremental conservatism is a fraud. It's an excuse for politicians (such as Harper) who have no communication skills.

Politicians such as Thatcher, Reagan made their point forcefully, and clearly. Churchill and Trudeau were not "incremental" in defending their beliefs.

If Stephen Harper is a Conservative, he should say so. Clearly.

Woodbrigdge and Vaughn are definately heavily populated with Italians...

[Jack Weber]

I was talking SPECIFICS. (I.e. registration/confiscation)

How about you?

I was equating your silly leaps of equating democracy based political party's with totalitarian/authoritarian regimes...

Ergo,your quasi-lucid state of mind...

Is this somehow going to turn into something about the CBC now?

[blueblood]

Right now, you're probably right. Perhaps I should rephrase. The Liberals (other than the Green Party under Elizabeth May) deserve my vote less than any other party.

At least the Green Party has the stones to compete with the tories in Western Manitoba in the by-election. Yes the tory candidate will get more votes than the other candidates put together, but the fact that there are zero NDP and Liberal signs throughout Western Manitoba, does not bode well for these federal parties, especially when Ignatieff is trying to make a play at reconciliation with rural voters.

[Saipan]

I was equating your silly leaps of equating democracy based political party's with totalitarian/authoritarian regimes...

You're the one doing the equating. I was specifying gun registration/confiscation.

If you have evidence to contrary let's have it, in lieu of beating about the bushes.

[Wild Bill]

Argus, I too was intrigued by this choice of candidate.

To be frank, I don't really know much about Fantino. He was police chief in Toronto and Ontario. He's running in a suburb of Toronto (Woodbridge?) with many voters of Italian origin.

I have no problem with Harper playing politics the way the federal Liberals typically do. Harper needs a majority.

But here's the fundamental question, as your donation shows.

----

I think that this theory of incremental conservatism is a fraud. It's an excuse for politicians (such as Harper) who fear their communication skills.

Politicians such as Thatcher, Reagan made their point forcefully, and clearly. Churchill and Trudeau were not "incremental" in defending their beliefs. People voted for such leaders.

If Stephen Harper is a Conservative, he should say so. Clearly.

August, Fantino's history is not that widely known outside of the specific areas where he caused bad feeling. It's almost as if he has a guardian angel taking care of the mainstream media coverage for him.

Whatever, although nationally he is known as a "tough, law and order figure" he has had a number of incidents over the years in areas under his authority where he was revealed as a bully who has no hesitation in bending the law to his own aims.

The most obvious example is his term as OPP commissioner where he ran a policy of letting the native protesters away with almost anything while locking up townspeople who often had done nothing but be witnesses. When people like Gary McHale or the Caledonia town council became too active in criticizing him he instructed his troops to find something, ANYTHING that could be used to charge McHale, finally coming up with some charge so obscure that it had never been used in a century or two! The charge was thrown out but not before it was used to keep McHale in jail overnight.

He sent a letter to the Caledonia town council that essentially said that if any of the councilors dared to criticize the OPP policy he would deny the town police protection!

There have been a number of other incidents. As long as things are quiet Fantino seems the dutiful figure but if someone crosses him or dares to criticize he has no hesitation in abusing them or "shooting the messenger".

You are probably more familiar with the protest at OKA. Imagine if the Chief of the Quebec force refused to stand up to Lasagna and his band and put only the nearby Quebecois in jail. Fantino has managed to make a town of more than 40,000 people despise him!

Yet somehow most of Canada has not paid attention to Fantino's exploits. Why, I really don't know but it is truly a fault in how we care about each other's rights. Meantime, Harper chooses him for his candidate in a suburban Toronto riding.

So those of us who do not respect Fantino for his actions are disgusted with the idea of him being an MP, Tory or otherwise. It offends our personal values.

That is why we might support the CPC this election but NOT Fantino! Hence the admittedly odd sight of Tory supporters helping a Fantino opponent.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Wild Bill

[William Ashley]

Well if the Caladonians are homeless can't they register to vote in the riding that fantino is running in?

Likewise can't everyone else give up their residencies and head over to fantino's riding and vote for the other guy?

likewise could not everyone who supports fantino give up residence and mosey on over to that riding.

(in the olden days - people voted based upon who showed up to vote in a riding)

Then the notion of 1 vote per election.. but what are the rules for By-elections?

What is ordinary residence?

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=bkg&document=ec90720〈=e

In British law it appears

If you are resident in the UK year after year, you are treated as ordinarily resident here.

So does this mean the place you are staying at from the revision day to election day in the riding

"and your place of ordinary residence from the first day of the revision period until election day is in the electoral district where the by-election"

When is the revision day?

Apparently in Saskatchewan it is 4 days before election day.

I wonder when this is for federal elections?

Perhaps 50$ for share on a bus and shelter money would accomplish as much. Right right but who wants to change their residence for a week just so they can vote in a by election? This hasn't been done since the age of horses, has it?

In ontario it appears up to and including the day before??????/

see: http://www.elections.ca/res/loi/com/compoverview2010jun_e.pdf

page 41...

but I can't take everything in here as true as a lot of it tends to be wordy like you can be a candidate -- but there are stipulations elsewhere such as requirement for a private auditor - so you must have atleast one professional accountant (member of a professional accounting organization requiring degree from university like) support to run in an election.

in Beament v. Minister of National Revenue, [1952] 2 S.C.R. 486 we see:

Held: The words "resident" and "ordinarily resident" should be given the everyday meaning ascribed to them by common usage, there being no definition of these words in the Income War Tax Act.

I don't see it in here either

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/E-2.01/page-1.html

I wonder if providing shelter for the homeless is a valid election expense?

Is there an entertainment expense allowance.. hosting the homeless.

Residence implies a place of abode and personal presence.

Origin:

late Middle English (denoting the fact of living in a place): from Old French, or from medieval Latin residentia, from Latin residere 'remain' (see reside)

abode1(abode)

Pronunciation:/əˈbəʊd/

noun

formal or literary

*

a place of residence; a house or home:my humble abode

*

[mass noun] residence:their right of abode in Britain

*

archaic a stay; a sojourn

living in a particular place:

you also see in here:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fcy-fea/lib-bib/rep-rap/2006/rhro_cl/p4.html

""Ordinary residence"" is not a phrase capable of precise definition

AND

The Income Tax Act cases seem to accept that a person may have more than one ordinary residence.[104]. A similar interpretation is possible under the federal Garnishment, Attachment and Pension Diversion Act given the remedial nature of the legislation and the objective of facilitating enforcement of family law orders

However, there is case law to the effect that an intention to settle in a place will not effect a change of ordinary residence without a physical presence in that place

MacPherson v. MacPherson (1976) 28 RFL 106 (OCA); Trotter v. Trotter (1992) 40 RFL (3d) 68 (OGD).

meanwhile the charter states:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html#anchorbo-ga:l_I-gb:s_6

Rights to move and gain livelihood

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right

(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and

It does have me wonder though why the Canadian Forces can vote absentee but other citizens cannot.

Edited November 14, 2010 by William Ashley

[Sir Bandelot]

Harper needs a majority.

Why? So he can turn Canada into a veritable police state? And this is the kind of guy he needs to help him do it.

If Stephen Harper is a Conservative, he should say so. Clearly.

Mr. Harper is a full-fledged politician, and therefore will say nothing.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[Argus]

I am wondering, why would you give money to a representative of a political party, in this case the Liberals, when at the moment (as they have for a while now), they are scattered all over the place.

I suppose I should have made clear - though to anyone who has been on this site very long it definitely would be redundant - that I do NOT support the Liberal Party of Canada, or, for that matter, its provincial brethren. I consider the lot of them to be mostly ammoral opportunists with no vision.

But ammoral is better than immoral. I've been observing the behaviour of Julian Fantino through the media for some years now. I find it appalling that he ever rose to lead any police force. For that matter, I don't believe he was ever fit to be a police officer to begin with. The thought of him being courted as a member of parliament is frankly somewhat nauseating. The man has never hesitated a moment to abuse his power against anyone who he takes a dislike to (and he takes a dislike to many) and he has no business being elected to anything. Harper made a huge mistake in accepting some moron's advise to let Fantino fly the Conservative flag in Vaughn, and I hope he fails to win election.

And if he does I hope the Liberals have enough hidden dirt to make Harper regret he ever heard the man's name.

[Argus]

In case of Fantino just the opposite. He called the long gun registration what it really is - a piece of very wasteful crap.

Yes, I certainly agreed with him. Perhaps Colonel Russell Williams would have agreed, too. That doesn't mean I think Williams is fit to be a member of parliament.

[Argus]

I think that this theory of incremental conservatism is a fraud. It's an excuse for politicians (such as Harper) who fear their communication skills.

Politicians such as Thatcher, Reagan made their point forcefully, and clearly. Churchill and Trudeau were not "incremental" in defending their beliefs. People voted for such leaders.

If Stephen Harper is a Conservative, he should say so. Clearly.

I think we are more in the era of the spin doctor now than we were thirty years back. Every word is analyzed and whitewashed so as to cause minimum offense and maximum praise. Hard positions are publicly softened, and more controversial policies are not even announced until after an election is done. Further, the country has an underlying liberal themed culture actively supported by almost all elements of popular culture, including the media. It's a sort of laissez faire culture of "eh, whatever they want, they should get". Conservatisms "you work for what you get - you're responsible for your own life" doesn't necessarily play well there. The Liberals know this and many of their policies are "feel good" policies designed to accomplish nothing. The gun registry, mentioned earlier, is one such. The liberal types love to trumpet their and Canada's presumed superior morality, a part of which is that we "CARE" so much about everyone and want to "HELP" so much wherever we can. Hard-nosed, common sensed conservatism is easy to thus portray as cold hearted and uncaring by the liberalesque media playing to a largely inattentive audience. Neither Reagan nor Thatcher, nor, for that matter, Churchill, would ever get elected in today's Canada. A party leader who said "I have nothing to offer you but blood, toil, sweat and sweat" would be massacred at the polls in favour of the leader who promised wine and roses. Witness Joe Clark going down to defeat at the hands of Trudeau, who promised not to raise taxes and instead just increased the debt load on voters children.

[Argus]

Woodbrigdge and Vaughn are definately heavily populated with Italians...

Allow me once again to express my contempt for ethnic and racial politics and those who engage in them. That includes all the ethnic types who vote for "their guy" even though they don't know a thing about him except "He's Italian! Yeah!" Let me suggest that if you're voting for a candidate because he's Italian you have no business being in Canada and would do us all a favour by going the hell back "home" to where you'll happily live among "your own kind".

And of course, that includes all the Hindu, Indian, Muslim, Jewish, Pakistani and Chinese people who vote for "their guy", as well as all Francophones outside Quebec who do the same - and who really should just go live in Quebec, where they make no bones about voting out of purely ethnic motivations.

The Liberals, by the way, are running an Italian, too. It seems, in this country, if any riding has a sizable minority of some ethnic group then all candidates need to be of that ethnic group to have a chance at winning. But of course, that's not bigotry, no of course not.

End rant.

[Argus]

Why? So he can turn Canada into a veritable police state?

I dunno. You set new records for inane comments every other day. I mean, for pure insane stupidity others here often outdo your idiotic comments, but yours are just so damned consistently dumb you should get some sort of award.

I think this site should post a warning on its front page. If you're not willing to turn your brain on don't come in!"

[Michael Hardner]

Allow me once again to express my contempt for ethnic and racial politics and those who engage in them. That includes all the ethnic types who vote for "their guy" even though they don't know a thing about him except "He's Italian! Yeah!" Let me suggest that if you're voting for a candidate because he's Italian you have no business being in Canada and would do us all a favour by going the hell back "home" to where you'll happily live among "your own kind".

And of course, that includes all the Hindu, Indian, Muslim, Jewish, Pakistani and Chinese people who vote for "their guy", as well as all Francophones outside Quebec who do the same - and who really should just go live in Quebec, where they make no bones about voting out of purely ethnic motivations.

The Liberals, by the way, are running an Italian, too. It seems, in this country, if any riding has a sizable minority of some ethnic group then all candidates need to be of that ethnic group to have a chance at winning. But of course, that's not bigotry, no of course not.

End rant.

This has been the way forever, and of course it is still thus with white people who would only vote for 'their' guy too. What do you suggest we do to contravene human nature ? Add a quota system ?

[Wild Bill]

And if he does I hope the Liberals have enough hidden dirt to make Harper regret he ever heard the man's name.

The question is, will they use it? After all, Fantino was McGuinty's stooge. Certainly provincial liberals will not make any effort against Fantino. Will the federal Liberals break step with their provincial cousins?

[bloodyminded]

Yes, I certainly agreed with him. Perhaps Colonel Russell Williams would have agreed, too. That doesn't mean I think Williams is fit to be a member of parliament.

Exactly. This about sums it up. Saipan will always support and defend anyone under the brand "conservative" (small or capital "C"), regardless of any other considerations. Most other conservatives will take a more pragmatic and rational view.

[DrGreenthumb]

A policeman as a politician is not a good mix. They have a tendency to support very draconian, oppressive laws.

However, I couldn't bring myself to vote liberal. I probably wouldn't vote. If there were a Libertarian candidate I would vote for him/her - same as not voting I guess.

Yeah like Conservative Shelly Glover? Actually like pretty much ALL the Conservative MP's ???? Gotta get "tough on crime" ya know.

[Wild Bill]

Yeah like Conservative Shelly Glover? Actually like pretty much ALL the Conservative MP's ???? Gotta get "tough on crime" ya know.

You know, when people come a bit your way it's pretty stupid salesmanship to insult them, making sure they won't come any farther...

[CANADIEN]

This has been the way forever, and of course it is still thus with white people who would only vote for 'their' guy too. What do you suggest we do to contravene human nature ? Add a quota system ?

There is not much one can do about individuals narrow-minded enough to vote for someone on the sole ground of their ethnic origin. Or people who would NOT vote for someone because of their ethnic origin.

[Argus]

This has been the way forever, and of course it is still thus with white people who would only vote for 'their' guy too. What do you suggest we do to contravene human nature ? Add a quota system ?

Come on. The way with "white people". I voted for an Indian guy with dreadlocks for city council last election, and a Lebanese guy the last federal election. How many people do you know in this day and age that say "I voted for the white guy, of course"? I mean, outside of the Heritage Front types?

If white people voted for their own kind Obama wouldn't have stood a prayer of being elected.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

Yeah like Conservative Shelly Glover? Actually like pretty much ALL the Conservative MP's ???? Gotta get "tough on crime" ya know.

I like Tough On Crime. I think we need a lot more of it. I don't think people should be able to make a living at shoplifting, for example, or that cops should arrest the storekeepers who try to protect their stuff. I don't think people with a dozen separate criminal offenses, let alone two or three or four dozen, should be on the streets.

But I don't think Fantino is tough on crime. I think he's a swaggering, bullying blowhard who'll favour whatever he's told he should favour.

[charter.rights]

I like Tough On Crime. I think we need a lot more of it. I don't think people should be able to make a living at shoplifting, for example, or that cops should arrest the storekeepers who try to protect their stuff. I don't think people with a dozen separate criminal offenses, let alone two or three or four dozen, should be on the streets.

But I don't think Fantino is tough on crime. I think he's a swaggering, bullying blowhard who'll favour whatever he's told he should favour.

Tough on crime might be a good concept but it doesn't work. Neither does prolonged incarceration or capital punishment for than matter. Our whole justice system is in array and getting tough on crime is nly going to make things worse.

[Argus]

Tough on crime might be a good concept but it doesn't work. Neither does prolonged incarceration or capital punishment for than matter.

Really? And you know this why? Because it doesn't work in the United States? We are not the United States. We don't have huge urban slums which are generators of crime.

[Saipan]

Tough on crime might be a good concept but it doesn't work. Neither does prolonged incarceration or capital punishment for than matter. Our whole justice system is in array and getting tough on crime is nly going to make things worse.

You know of any executed murderer who killed again?

Do you know why Thailand pretty near run out of drug dealers?

Or why Michael Faye won't vandalize any more cars in Singapore?

[Argus]

More stories of the illustrious career of Julian Fantino.

Former Toronto Police chief Julian Fantino’s dismantling of an entire downtown plainclothes unit more than six years ago was an unfair “knee-jerk” decision that “sent an entirely exaggerated and incorrect message to the media and the public” about alleged police corruption.

Fantino's knee-jerk reaction assailed by arbitrator

And more on Fantino's policing style in Caledon as OPP commisioner.

Almost overnight, officers stopping cars without licence plates or with invalid tags, or making other arrests, found themselves being asked, when they first called in the information over the radio, a single shocking question: “Are the occupants white or non-white?” If the answer was “non-white,” meaning native, the reply from the command post would be, “Get their names, disengage and if there are any charges to be laid, you can lay them later.”

If the suspect wasn't white, the police learned to walk away

Edited November 20, 2010 by Argus