Harper blames Israeli stance for UN snub

[KeyStone]

Would you prefer Canada have values and conditions closer to those of Israel or of Gaza? Hey, gays risk getting their heads cut off in Gaza. So much for same sex marriage and other liberal shibboleths.

I didn't realize it was one or the other.

So, we either have a country where we chop off the heads of gays, or we have a country where Israel can do no wrong?

How in the hell did you pass the LSAT with logic like that?

I hope other cultures share many of the values that Canada has. But if they aren't there yet, I don't dismiss their right to exist, nor their right to be treated with dignity. Nor, do I paint all Palestinians with the same brush because of the actions of a few.

[Keepitsimple]

Here's Harper's entire speech which of course contaains this line:

Of course, like any country, Israel may be subjected to fair criticism. And like any free country, Israel subjects itself to such criticism — healthy, necessary, democratic debate.

The entire speech:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today made the following remarks at the Ottawa Conference on Combating Anti-Semitism:

“Members of the Steering Committee, fellow parliamentarians, Ladies and gentlemen, let me begin by saying how delighted I am to see so many of you from around the world, gathered here in Ottawa for the second annual conference of the Inter-parliamentary Coalition for Combating Antisemitism.

“It is a sign, not only of your commitment to our common cause, but also of the momentum established at the London Conference last year. It is, therefore, a great sign of hope.

“History teaches us that anti-Semitism is a tenacious and particularly dangerous form of hatred. And recent events are demonstrating that this hatred is now in resurgence throughout the world. That is why the work of the Inter-parliamentary Coalition for Combating Antisemitism has never been so important or timely as it is now.

“On behalf of the Government of Canada and all Canadians, I commend you and support you in the great and important work that you are doing.

“I would like to thank Minister Jason Kenney, for inviting the ICCA to Ottawa, and for his outstanding record of leadership in combating anti-Semitism.

“I would like also to thank my introducer and friend, Scott Reid, Chair of the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Antisemitism, and Mario Silva, Vice Chair, for organizing this conference.

“And I would like to thank all my colleagues in the Parliament of Canada here today, including Professor Irwin Cotler, for their dedication to your mission.

“Ladies and gentlemen, colleagues, two weeks ago I visited Ukraine for the first time.

“In Kiev I laid a wreath at Babi Yar, the site of one of the numerous atrocities of the Holocaust. I was left there with much the same impression as I had in Auschwitz in 2008 — that such horrors defy all comprehension.

“At the killing grounds of Babyn Yar, I knew I was standing in a place where evil — evil at its most cruel, obscene, and grotesque — had been unleashed. But while evil of this magnitude may be unfathomable, it is nonetheless a fact.

“It is a fact of history. And it is a fact of our nature — that humans can choose to be inhuman. This is the paradox of freedom. That awesome power, that grave responsibility — to choose between good and evil.

“Let us not forget that even in the darkest hours of the Holocaust, men were free to choose good. And some did. That is the eternal witness of the Righteous Among the Nations. And let us not forget that even now, there are those who would choose evil and would launch another Holocaust, if left unchecked. That is the challenge before us today.

“The horror of the Holocaust is unique, but it is just one chapter in the long and unbroken history of anti-Semitism. Yet, in contemporary debates that influence the fate of the Jewish homeland, unfortunately, there are those who reject the language of good and evil. They say that the situation is not black and white, that we mustn’t choose sides.

“In response to this resurgence of moral ambivalence on these issues, we must speak clearly. Remembering the Holocaust is not merely an act of historical recognition.

“It must also be an understanding and an undertaking. An understanding that the same threats exist today. And an undertaking of a solemn responsibility to fight those threats.

“Jews today in many parts of the world and many different settings are increasingly subjected to vandalism, threats, slurs, and just plain, old-fashioned lies.

“Let me draw your attention to some particularly disturbing trends. Anti-Semitism has gained a place at our universities, where at times it is not the mob who are removed, but the Jewish students under attack. And, under the shadow of a hateful ideology with global ambitions, one which targets the Jewish homeland as a scapegoat, Jews are savagely attacked around the world, such as, most appallingly, in Mumbai in 2008.

“One ruthless champion of that ideology brazenly threatens to ‘wipe Israel off the map,’ and time and again flouts the obligations that his country has taken under international treaties. I could go on, but I know that you will agree on one point: that this is all too familiar.

“We have seen all this before. And we have no excuse to be complacent. In fact we have a duty to take action. And for all of us, that starts at home.

“In Canada, we have taken a number of steps to assess and combat anti-Semitism in our own country. You will no doubt hear from my Canadian colleagues about the measures we have taken to date.

“I will mention for the time being that, for the first time, we are dealing with Canada’s own record of officially sanctioned anti-Semitism. We have created a fund for education about our country’s deliberate rejection of Jewish refugees before and during the Second World War.

“But of course we must also combat anti-Semitism beyond our borders, an evolving, global phenomenon. And we must recognize, that while its substance is as crude as ever, its method is now more sophisticated.

“Harnessing disparate anti-Semitic, anti-American and anti-Western ideologies, it targets the Jewish people by targeting the Jewish homeland, Israel, as the source of injustice and conflict in the world, and uses, perversely, the language of human rights to do so.

“We must be relentless in exposing this new anti-Semitism for what it is. Of course, like any country, Israel may be subjected to fair criticism. And like any free country, Israel subjects itself to such criticism — healthy, necessary, democratic debate. But when Israel, the only country in the world whose very existence is under attack — is consistently and conspicuously singled out for condemnation, I believe we are morally obligated to take a stand. Demonization, double standards, delegitimization, the three D’s, it is the responsibility of us all to stand up to them.

“And I know, by the way, because I have the bruises to show for it, that whether it is at the United Nations, or any other international forum, the easy thing to do is simply to just get along and go along with this anti-Israeli rhetoric, to pretend it is just being even-handed, and to excuse oneself with the label of ‘honest broker.’ There are, after all, a lot more votes, a lot more, in being anti-Israeli than in taking a stand. But, as long as I am Prime Minister, whether it is at the UN or the Francophonie or anywhere else, Canada will take that stand, whatever the cost. And friends, I say this not just because it is the right thing to do, but because history shows us, and the ideology of the anti-Israeli mob tells us all too well if we listen to it, that those who threaten the existence of the Jewish people are a threat to all of us.

“Earlier I noted the paradox of freedom. It is freedom that makes us human. Whether it leads to heroism or depravity depends on how we use it.

“As the spectre of anti-Semitism spreads, our responsibility becomes increasingly clear. We are citizens of free countries. We have the right, and therefore the obligation, to speak out and to act. We are free citizens, but also the elected representatives of free peoples. We have a solemn duty to defend the vulnerable, to challenge the aggressor, to protect and promote human rights, human dignity, at home and abroad. None of us really knows whether we would choose to do good, in the extreme circumstances of the Righteous. But we do know there are those today who would choose to do evil, if they are so permitted. Thus, we must use our freedom now, and confront them and their anti-Semitism at every turn.

“That, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the purpose of our intervention today: our shared determination to confront this terrible hatred. The work we have undertaken, in our own countries and in cooperation with one another, is a sign of hope.

“Our work together is a sign of hope, just as the existence and persistence of the Jewish homeland is a sign of hope. And it is here that history serves not to warn but to inspire.

“As I said on the 60th anniversary of the founding of the State of Israel, Israel appeared as a light, in a world emerging from deep darkness. Against all odds, that light has not been extinguished. It burns bright, upheld by the universal principles of all civilized nations — freedom, democracy and justice.

“By working together more closely in the family of civilized nations, we affirm and strengthen those principles. And we declare our faith in humanity’s future in the power of good over evil.

“Thank you for all you are doing to spread that faith. And thank you for your kind attention.

“Thank you very much.”

Link: http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=3769

[Keepitsimple]

....and for those who think that Harper is just a vote grabber and shames Canada with his approach.....here's the speech by Liberal member Irwin Cotler, mormer Minister of Jusice and Attorney General of Canada. Let's see what you think of his approach - more nuanced?

In a word, Israel is the only state in the world today - and the Jews the only people in the world today - that are the object of a standing set of threats by governmental, religious and terrorist bodies seeking their destruction. The London Declaration - again in a significant clarion call - recognizes that "where there is incitement to genocide signatories [to the Genocide Convention] automatically have an obligation to act." This promise must now be acted upon.

Read the entire un-nuanced speech here: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/02/21/irwin-cotler-the-global-reawakening-of-anti-sematism.aspx

[Guest TrueMetis]

....and for those who think that Harper is just a vote grabber and shames Canada with his approach.....

Harper is just a vote grabber and does shame Canada, just like every politician we have right now.

[scribblet]

Harper is just a vote grabber and does shame Canada, just like every politician we have right now.

Nonsense, how does it 'shame Canada' to stand up against anti semitism, his speech was excellent, if this is 'shaming Canada' - bring it on.

excerpt from Harper's speech

In response to this resurgence of moral ambivalence on these issues, we must speak clearly.

Remembering the Holocaust is not merely an act of historical recognition. It must also be an understanding and an undertaking. An understanding that the same threats exist today. And an undertaking of a solemn responsibility to fight those threats.

Jews today in many parts of the world and many different settings are increasingly subjected to vandalism, threats, slurs, and just plain, old-fashioned lies.

Let me draw your attention to some particularly disturbing trends.

Anti-Semitism has gained a place at our universities, where at times it is not the mob who are removed, but the Jewish students under attack. And, under the shadow of a hateful ideology with global ambitions, one which targets the Jewish homeland as a scapegoat, Jews are savagely attacked around the world – such as, most appallingly, in Mumbai in 2008.

We have seen all this before. And we have no excuse to be complacent. In fact we have a duty to take action. And for all of us, that starts at home.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Nonsense, how does it 'shame Canada' to stand up against anti semitism, his speech was excellent, if this is 'shaming Canada' - bring it on.

I'm talking about about all the other things Harper has done, and I'm willing to put money on this whole thing just being more vote grabbing.

[Argus]

If by right, you mean obtaining the support of Canadian Jews, then yes he is quite courageous.

It doesn't take a lot of courage to stand up for Canadian Jews these days. In fact quite the opposite.

Most of the Jewish vote in Canada, as I understand it, tends to go to the Liberals, not the Tories. Jews in Canada tend to be fairly liberal minded. I believe Harper's support of Israel is based on a sense of shared values and is principled. The Liberals have been heavily criticized for sucking up to the Arab world in recent years, in refusing to oppose all those one-sided "declarations" at the UN, and in doing whatever they could to curry favour among the growing Muslim voters in Canada, who, for the most part, despise Israel - and Jews.

There are now twice as many Muslims in Canada as there are Jews. Soon, there will be three times as many. The Jewish vote is not all that important in the general scheme of things. Those who want to pander to ethnics would do better to suck up to the Muslims, as the Liberals and NDP do.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

You can watch Harper speech over on C-pac and Harper has to stand up for Israel because the Jewish Society has given him awards for being their friend. Having the Jewish votes here in Canada always helps too

The suggestion that the Tories stance on Israel is based on the Jewish vote is entirely ignorant of the demographics and voting pattern in Canada. It's also borderline anti-Semitic itself. It implies all Jews in Canada have only one issue; the support of Israel. It suggest that, in fact Jews are not true Canadians, but care more about Israel than Canada. And it then justifies the attacks on Jews made by those who hate Israel. It's stupid. It's ignorant. It's moronic. I am not interested in pandering to Jewish votes, and sometimes what Israel does really ticks me off, but they're still far, far, far and away more enlightened, democratic and open minded than the herd of religious nut jobs who surround them.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

Supporting a terrorist state loses you votes?

Alert the media.

/end sarcasm

It's sad but Canada's loss can't solely be attributed to Harper's stance on Israel. The fact is Harper and his government have done serious, maybe irreparable, damage to Canada's reputation on many fronts.

You should try not to confuse your own freakish opinions with facts.

[Saipan]

I'm talking about about all the other things Harper has done, and I'm willing to put money on this whole thing just being more vote grabbing.

Ignatieff does it to lose votes?

Why?

[Keepitsimple]

The suggestion that the Tories stance on Israel is based on the Jewish vote is entirely ignorant of the demographics and voting pattern in Canada. It's also borderline anti-Semitic itself. It implies all Jews in Canada have only one issue; the support of Israel. It suggest that, in fact Jews are not true Canadians, but care more about Israel than Canada. And it then justifies the attacks on Jews made by those who hate Israel. It's stupid. It's ignorant. It's moronic. I am not interested in pandering to Jewish votes, and sometimes what Israel does really ticks me off, but they're still far, far, far and away more enlightened, democratic and open minded than the herd of religious nut jobs who surround them.

I second that.

[PIK]

Supporting a terrorist state loses you votes?

Alert the media.

/end sarcasm

It's sad but Canada's loss can't solely be attributed to Harper's stance on Israel. The fact is Harper and his government have done serious, maybe irreparable, damage to Canada's reputation on many fronts. From his continued show of disdain for the UN, his lack of belief in women's rights, his government's environmental polices, ect ect ect. It seems every decision Harper has made has blackened our reputation, and events like this are the result.

It is people like you that make me puke. The UN is not the UN that we all grew up respecting. It is run by thugs and dictators and I for one do not want to be part of that group, and women rights ,give me a fucking break,do you know who is charge of womens right at the UN? Do you know who is head of humans right for the UN. As one poster said here about gays in the ME, if you hate gays ,that you are backing the right people then because Isreal's neighbours hang gays , they flee to isreal to be able to live in peace.So many countries out there hope thay had leader with balls like harper and start standing up to these fools.Do I agree with everything isreal does ,not at all, but they have a right to live also and don't come back with ''what about the palastines, the palastines are their own wosrt enemy and used by the arabs in thier battle against the jewish state. That speech was the most powerful speech ever given by a canadian PM. And this has nothing to do with votes for harper in canada because there is not enough of them to make a difference , but haters like you will vote against him and I am beginning to think there are alot of you in this country now.

[capricorn]

I'm talking about about all the other things Harper has done, and I'm willing to put money on this whole thing just being more vote grabbing.

Ridiculous. The more realistic assessment is that for every Jewish vote he wins, he'll lose at least five from Arab Muslims.

[KeyStone]

....and for those who think that Harper is just a vote grabber and shames Canada with his approach.....here's the speech by Liberal member Irwin Cotler, mormer Minister of Jusice and Attorney General of Canada. Let's see what you think of his approach - more nuanced?

Read the entire un-nuanced speech here: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/02/21/irwin-cotler-the-global-reawakening-of-anti-sematism.aspx

Arguably, one can say that the state of Israel is under threat, but to suggest that Jews worldwide are the only people under threat is absurd? Roma are constantly under threat around the world, as are homosexuals.

[KeyStone]

Keep it Simple.

Here are a few of the many problems with Harper's speech

"And let us not forget that even now, there are those who would choose evil and would launch another Holocaust, if left unchecked."

Who would launch another holocaust? No one has suggested that. Even the most generous translation of Ahmadinejad still limits his antagonism towards Israel and not all Jews. It is a territorial dispute, not a call for genocide.

"there are those who reject the language of good and evil. They say that the situation is not black and white, that we mustn’t choose sides."

That is because it is not black and white. He wants to suggest that Israelis are good and all Arabs and Persians are bad, but that simply isn't the case. When you are killing innocent children, no matter what the reasons are, it is grey at best, and certainly not white.

"Anti-Semitism has gained a place at our universities, where at times it is not the mob who are removed, but the Jewish students under attack."

Sorry I didn't realize we had a Jewish version of Kent State. Students are protesting Israel.

The Jewish students that are antagonized are the ones that choose to confront the anti-Israel protesters, in the hopes of goading them into doing something stupid so they can catch it on camera. And yes, with every passionate movement, there are some within the crowd who takes things too far. I am sure you will hear much hatred of the US, if you go to a rally protesting something the US is doing. I am sure you will hear much hatred of China, if you go to a Falun Gong rally.

“One ruthless champion of that ideology brazenly threatens to ‘wipe Israel off the map,’ and time and again flouts the obligations that his country has taken under international treaties. I could go on, but I know that you will agree on one point: that this is all too familiar."

You see, this is complete bullshit. The translation is wrong. There is no attack against Jews. He does not threaten, he says it should be wiped off the map. There is a difference. If I say that liquor stores SHOULD give beer away for free, I am not threatening to steal the beer, or advocate legislation to make it so. This is pure antagonism of Iran and Ahmadinejad for political purposes and nothing else.

“Harnessing disparate anti-Semitic, anti-American and anti-Western ideologies, it targets the Jewish people by targeting the Jewish homeland, Israel, as the source of injustice and conflict in the world, and uses, perversely, the language of human rights to do so.

Here, Harper takes a page straight from B'Nai Brith, as he attempts to make Jews and Israel intertwined such that one can not possibly criticize Israel without being an anti-semite.

“We must be relentless in exposing this new anti-Semitism for what it is. Of course, like any country, Israel may be subjected to fair criticism. And like any free country, Israel subjects itself to such criticism — healthy, necessary, democratic debate."

Yes, there are good people in Israel who criticize it, but when an Israeli or the IDF commit a crime, Israel refuses international investigation, and does its own farcical investigation which nine times out of ten exonerates itself, and the other time, it gives the perpetrator a mild slap on the wrist.

So, yes Harper was an embarrassment. Reminds me a lot of Bush and his good against evil mentality.

[KeyStone]

"Nonsense, how does it 'shame Canada' to stand up against anti semitism, his speech was excellent, if this is 'shaming Canada' - bring it on."

Harper is standing up against anti-semitism, and that's fine.

The problem is that he is also standing up against what he calls 'new anti-semitism' which basically means criticism of Israel.

The logic he attempts to extend is that Israel is good, Arabs and Persians are bad, so therefore if you oppose anything Israel does, you must be anti-semitic.

Edited November 9, 2010 by KeyStone

[KeyStone]

the growing Muslim voters in Canada, who, for the most part, despise Israel - and Jews.

Soon, there will be three times as many. The Jewish vote is not all that important in the general scheme of things. Those who want to pander to ethnics would do better to suck up to the Muslims, as the Liberals and NDP do.

"Most of the Jewish vote in Canada, as I understand it, tends to go to the Liberals, not the Tories. Jews in Canada tend to be fairly liberal minded."

Well, historically it has been true that the Jewish vote has gone to Liberals, but that has changed under Harper. Ignatieff's 'war crime' comment helped shift more to the Conservatives such as the odious Schwartz and Reisman. Votes that can be shifted from the Liberals to the Conservatives are quite valuable.

"the growing Muslim voters in Canada, who, for the most part, despise Israel - and Jews. "

A fairly horrible and bigoted statement to suggest that most Muslims despise Israel and Jews.

Harper may feel the same though although he is politically savvy enough not to say such a thing.

"There are now twice as many Muslims in Canada as there are Jews."

Yes, but they don't participate in the political process nearly as much as Jews.

They are also not as powerful and influential.

"The Jewish vote is not all that important in the general scheme of things."

The vote is not huge, but not insignificant. They also donate, volunteer, and assist in other ways, which helps considerably.

The Jewish voters in Canada, have always had a significant impact on Canadian elections, because they are well-organized, and very engaged in Canadian politics. The Muslims are not.

[KeyStone]

The suggestion that the Tories stance on Israel is based on the Jewish vote is entirely ignorant of the demographics and voting pattern in Canada. It's also borderline anti-Semitic itself. It implies all Jews in Canada have only one issue; the support of Israel. It suggest that, in fact Jews are not true Canadians, but care more about Israel than Canada. And it then justifies the attacks on Jews made by those who hate Israel. It's stupid. It's ignorant. It's moronic. I am not interested in pandering to Jewish votes, and sometimes what Israel does really ticks me off, but they're still far, far, far and away more enlightened, democratic and open minded than the herd of religious nut jobs who surround them.

Nice try Argus, but you can't have it both ways.

Either Israel and Jews are intertwined or they are not.

Harper, the CJC, and B'Nai Brith have all been suggesting that an attack on Israel, is an attack on Jews.

So, you can not now seperate the two, to suggest that a pro-Israel policy is not likely to win Jewish votes, and call it anti-semitism. It is intellectually dishonest, and I think if you take a step back you will recognize that.

[KeyStone]

Ridiculous. The more realistic assessment is that for every Jewish vote he wins, he'll lose at least five from Arab Muslims.

You don't even believe that.

How many Arab votes do you think Harper had before this speech exactly?

He isn't losing any votes, because he never had them. The Arabs are generally either NDP, Liberal or more likely disengaged from the whole process.

Besides which, it is not just about the vote, it is also about the volunteers, the donations and the influence that Jewish Canadians wield. They are easily the most powerful lobby group in Canada.

[DogOnPorch]

Edited November 9, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

Edited November 9, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY

Edited November 9, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

Who would launch another holocaust? No one has suggested that. Even the most generous translation of Ahmadinejad still limits his antagonism towards Israel and not all Jews. It is a territorial dispute, not a call for genocide.

[KeyStone]

Harper has said that Jews are the only people who are under threat.

Yes, there are nutbars that would like to kill all the Jews, but no one with any power.

There are also Israeli nutbars who would like to kill all the Palestinians.

There are also Christian nutbars who would like to kill all the Gays.

There are also KKK nutbars who would like to kill all of the above.

[DogOnPorch]

Harper has said that Jews are the only people who are under threat.

Yes, there are nutbars that would like to kill all the Jews, but no one with any power.

There are also Israeli nutbars who would like to kill all the Palestinians.

There are also Christian nutbars who would like to kill all the Gays.

There are also KKK nutbars who would like to kill all of the above.

I provided 6 examples of Hamas calling for the death of ALL Jews. You provide excuses for these murderers.