What can you do to stop racism?

[Guest TrueMetis]

So what you are admitting to is providing yet another nice large range with no discernable evidence of what the actual population densities were and thus not being able to provide any sort of comparative outside of sheer speculation?

No I'm pointing out that some of the estimates are crap, the other ones are sound. 40-50 million for the entirety of the Americas is the consensus.

[wyly]

The clovis era is thought to have arrived in NA about 15,000 years ago.

60,000 is not only pre-Clovis it is pre-migration to North America. IN the end who really care if it is 20,000 or 45,000. What difference does that make. I want to see this mystical continent that Natives sprang up from before they migrated to the Americas.

and you would think that the timeline from 15,000 to 60,000 YBP some human remains from that time period would have turned up by this time...there would have been a substantial number of people over 45,000 years and yet not a single specimen has been discovered and there are many, many, archeological digs throughout the americas every year...

[charter.rights]

and you would think that the timeline from 15,000 to 60,000 YBP some human remains from that time period would have turned up by this time...there would have been a substantial number of people over 45,000 years and yet not a single specimen has been discovered and there are many, many, archeological digs throughout the americas every year...

It is a well known fact that human remains cannot exist in the highly acidic soils in N.A and it is a rare occurrence that any human parts would survive beyond about 1-2000 years.

[DogOnPorch]

Artist conception of native culture circa 1000BC.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Artist conception of native culture circa 1000BC.

[M.Dancer]

It is a well known fact that human remains cannot exist in the highly acidic soils in N.A and it is a rare occurrence that any human parts would survive beyond about 1-2000 years.

Rare...but not impossible. Hence...Kennewick Man

....and

http://www.archaeology.org/9811/newsbriefs/buhl.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_Springs_Man

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/169/3952/1307.abstract

Just a coincidence no doubt that the oldest happens to be around the time when the clovis peoples arrive....

Which leaves us, if they have been around for 60,000 years, there would be others to be found, asnd so far, zero.

And if there

[charter.rights]

Rare...but not impossible. Hence...Kennewick Man

....and

http://www.archaeology.org/9811/newsbriefs/buhl.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_Springs_Man

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/169/3952/1307.abstract

Just a coincidence no doubt that the oldest happens to be around the time when the clovis peoples arrive....

Which leaves us, if they have been around for 60,000 years, there would be others to be found, asnd so far, zero.

And if there

There will, no doubt.

The problem as been that almost everyone believed that the migration across the Bering Strait was the only way that aboriginal people arrived here. No one suspected that there could be any aboriginal later than 10,000- 12,000 YBP. However since there have been a number of finds beyond those dates, there is a renewed interest in looking further. 13,000, 15,000 and later are being found today which has caused a number of anthropologists to try to make the finds fit into the theory. However, it is proving next to impossible given that the sites such as Cautus Hill and Topper place people here in the pre-clovis era and it kinda blows the Bering Strait Theory to pot.

[M.Dancer]

However, it is proving next to impossible given that the sites such as Cautus Hill and Topper place people here in the pre-clovis era and it kinda blows the Bering Strait Theory to pot.

But not convincingly as in Topper, most believe the artifacts they have found are not man made....what will happen I believe is that the migration date will be pushed back a couple of thousand years...but that no evidence of pre-clovis culture will be found.

The other theory which may or may not gain traction is the pacific migration..if so, what happened to them? Did the northern asiatics kill them?

[Guest TrueMetis]

There will, no doubt.

The problem as been that almost everyone believed that the migration across the Bering Strait was the only way that aboriginal people arrived here. No one suspected that there could be any aboriginal later than 10,000- 12,000 YBP. However since there have been a number of finds beyond those dates, there is a renewed interest in looking further. 13,000, 15,000 and later are being found today which has caused a number of anthropologists to try to make the finds fit into the theory. However, it is proving next to impossible given that the sites such as Cautus Hill and Topper place people here in the pre-clovis era and it kinda blows the Bering Strait Theory to pot.

Actually people arriving in North America earlier than 12000 years ago just means that they came by boat along the Bering straight instead of a channel through the ice. Or the they came at an earlier point when there was an ice channel.

The very cool link Who's Doing what posted earlier.

[charter.rights]

Actually people arriving in North America earlier than 12000 years ago just means that they came by boat along the Bering straight instead of a channel through the ice. Or the they came at an earlier point when there was an ice channel.

The very cool link Who's Doing what posted earlier.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. You get your ass kicked for speculation and all you do is provide more speculation. You really are out of your league faker.

[M.Dancer]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. You get your ass kicked for speculation and all you do is provide more speculation. You really are out of your league faker.

You speculate all the time. Scientists speculate all the time. This whole 60,000 year thing you cling to with but mere shreds of flimsy evidence is entirely speculation.

You are not out of your league, provided your league is made up of mouth breathing morons.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. You get your ass kicked for speculation and all you do is provide more speculation. You really are out of your league faker.

I have provided way more evidence than you have, your the idiot who think using mitochondrial DNA is flawed. Which if true means many convictions for the past 30 years or so are flawed. You and Shwa are asking for an impossible standard of evidence.

Edited November 18, 2010 by TrueMetis

[wyly]

It is a well known fact that human remains cannot exist in the highly acidic soils in N.A and it is a rare occurrence that any human parts would survive beyond about 1-2000 years.

wow you're just an amazing source of undiscovered facts...first you come up with the evolutionary eye opener- there was no Bering crossing, natives of the america's evolved separately and concurrently from other hominids and even more amazing we are still identical specie, WOWZER!...then there is no DNA link to east asians,huh!...and now human bones unlike all other mammals don't exist, there are thousands upon thousands of mammal specimens going back millions of years in the americas but not human bones, apparently the bones of indigenous peoples are made of a different substance than all other mammals ... the prairies are not acidic, the deserts of USA and mexico are not acidic, western s american is not acidic, the arctic is not acidic...there are many, many regions that are not acidic...

[wyly]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. You get your ass kicked for speculation and all you do is provide more speculation. You really are out of your league faker.

oh please you're pulling facts out of your arse linking to archy sites that supply nothing but speculation...

[wyly]

but the soil was acidic so of course no evdence remains..

[Moonlight Graham]

scale was the only difference, the indigenous peoples were every bit as brutal with other tribes as european invaders, the europeans just had a more efficient war machine....

I agree.

[Shwa]

You and Shwa are asking for an impossible standard of evidence.

I am? Well now that is a twist isn't it? But it seems that is the sort of logic you apply - all twisty and slippery.

You make some absurd assertion based on speculative data from a social science and then whine about "impossible standard of evidence." There, there.

Here is an article: PHYTOLITH EVIDENCE FOR TWENTIETH-CENTURY B.P. MAIZE IN NORTHERN IROQUOIAthat has a possible "standard of evidence" from data obtained by social scientists.

[charter.rights]

I am? Well now that is a twist isn't it? But it seems that is the sort of logic you apply - all twisty and slippery.

You make some absurd assertion based on speculative data from a social science and then whine about "impossible standard of evidence." There, there.

Here is an article: PHYTOLITH EVIDENCE FOR TWENTIETH-CENTURY B.P. MAIZE IN NORTHERN IROQUOIAthat has a possible "standard of evidence" from data obtained by social scientists.

Her "impossible standard of evidence" is anything outside of Wikipedia. She isn't interested in the research. She is merely trying to win an impossible argument with childish tactics.

Edited November 18, 2010 by charter.rights

[Guest TrueMetis]

I am? Well now that is a twist isn't it? But it seems that is the sort of logic you apply - all twisty and slippery.

You make some absurd assertion based on speculative data from a social science and then whine about "impossible standard of evidence." There, there.

Here is an article: PHYTOLITH EVIDENCE FOR TWENTIETH-CENTURY B.P. MAIZE IN NORTHERN IROQUOIAthat has a possible "standard of evidence" from data obtained by social scientists.

So they grew corn we already knew this, what does it have to do with the violence among the natives?

Her "impossible standard of evidence" is anything outside of Wikipedia. She isn't interested in the research. She is merely trying to win an impossible argument with childish tactics.

This from the guy who keeps calling me a women, can you say ironic?

[Shwa]

So they grew corn we already knew this, what does it have to do with the violence among the natives?

Now you are just dense.

[wyly]

Her "impossible standard of evidence" is anything outside of Wikipedia. She isn't interested in the research. She is merely trying to win an impossible argument with childish tactics.

whereas you invent facts out of nothing, your "research" links have no verifiable human artifacts that can be assigned a date, none...each site is fraught with problems...

and really how can anyone take your claims seriously after rewriting the theory of evolution and the same time making a racist claim denying the irrefutable DNA link between the indigenous people of the americas...

your scientific claims are pure fantasy equivalent to Noah's ark and alien abductions....

you've contributed some insightful and valid posts to a number of threads but on this thread they're straight from wackoland....

[AngusThermopyle]

Well I hate to interupt a jolly good acrimonius time being had by all but can I ask a question based upon the actual thread topic?

Earlier in the thread I asked if being told to go back where I came from was rascist. Charter answered that if it were a white person saying it then no it wasn't. Then I pointed out that it had been Natives who said it to me quite a few times and asked the question again, I never recieved an answer. So, once again, the times Natives have said this to me could be classified as rascist or not?

It should also be noted that even though some had this attitude many did not, to my knowledge anyway and as I've stated before I had many Native friends who were good stand up people. This also leads to what I've always said, there are bums and riff raff in every demographic. This appears to be something some here are incapable of grasping.

Edited to correct a couple of typos.

Edited November 19, 2010 by AngusThermopyle

[charter.rights]

Well I hate to interupt a jolly good acrimonius time being had by all but can I ask a question based upon the actual thread topic?

Earlier in the thread I asked if being told to go back where I came from was rascist. Charter answered that if it were a white person saying it then no it wasn't. Then I pointed out that it had been Natives who said it to me quite a few times and asked the question again, I never recieved an answer. So, once again, the times Natives have said this to me could be classified as rascist or not?

It should also be noted that even though some had this attitude many did not, to my knowledge anyway and as I've stated before I had many Native friends who were good stand up people. This also leads to what I've always said, there are bums and riff raff in every demographic. This appears to be something some here are incapable of grasping.

Edited to correct a couple of typos.

You mean like this?

"Go back to where you came from you limey...."

Nope. That is still only a pejorative. Limey is not a racist term.

[AngusThermopyle]

You mean like this?

"Go back to where you came from you limey...."

Nope. That is still only a pejorative. Limey is not a racist term.

I really can't recall being called a Limey by a Native, they may have, I wouldn't swear to it. I mean the go back where you came from part. So you are saying that if a Native says this, even if it includes Limey or not it isn't rascist?

[Shwa]

Well I hate to interupt a jolly good acrimonius time being had by all but can I ask a question based upon the actual thread topic?

I'm stealing that!

Earlier in the thread I asked if being told to go back where I came from was rascist. Charter answered that if it were a white person saying it then no it wasn't. Then I pointed out that it had been Natives who said it to me quite a few times and asked the question again, I never recieved an answer. So, once again, the times Natives have said this to me could be classified as rascist or not?

Difficult question to answer - did the person(s) telling you believe "...that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race?¹"

Or were they just bigots? Definitely insulting though...