Page vs Flaherty

[Topaz]

The Tories say they can pay off the deficit in 5 years and we all know how correct the minsiter of finance has been right in the past. I can't see how he can without increasing taxes, especially if the economy slows. Page , doesn't agree with the minister and he makes good points. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20101021/page-deficit-101021/

[Smallc]

This level of growth, according to the CBC's Amanda Lang, was always built into the numbers.

[RNG]

This level of growth, according to the CBC's Amanda Lang, was always built into the numbers.

And most pundits are saying the economy will slowly improve. Good news for us as long as the US doesn't tank. Mind you, the way the Hope and Change guy is going, it probably will.

Edited October 23, 2010 by RNG

[PIK]

Page does not have all the info on stuff like this to be so sure of himself. I think this job went right to his head.

[Topaz]

Page does not have all the info on stuff like this to be so sure of himself. I think this job went right to his head.

Journalist have said that Page has been right more times than Flaherty. After all, he went to school to be a lawyer, not a minister of finance.

[Shakeyhands]

Page does not have all the info on stuff like this to be so sure of himself. I think this job went right to his head.

Bullshit. And I bet Harper is sorry now that he appointed him. The whole darn truth thing keeps getting in Jims way!

[August1991]

Journalist have said that Page has been right more times than Flaherty. After all, he went to school to be a lawyer, not a minister of finance.

Jim Flaherty has to answer to his constituents and his boss who in turn must answer to all Canadians.

Who does Kevin Page answer to? In fact, who elected Kevin Page?

-----

My point is that it is the job of the opposition to oppose the government. The government should not be in the business of paying for people to oppose the government. In the long run, no good will come of it.

Trudeau started this idea with his theory of counterweights and now we have innumerable lobby groups, all on the public dime and all advocating for more government spending for their pet, personal interest (which invariably means more money for them personally).

Kevin Page is trying to create a Congressional Budget Office north. The CBO is part of the political game in the US and Page's PBO is the same. Page is an unelected political player on the taxpayer's dime and I don't think that that it is good in the long run.

If Jim Flaherty screws up, he or his party won't win re-election.

Edited October 24, 2010 by August1991

[Smallc]

Who does Kevin Page answer to? In fact, who elected Kevin Page?

What? You think that every position has to be elected? It's not his job to oppose, it's his job to give an independent analysis of the numbers. And the PBO is supposed to be like the CBO north. That's what the Conservatives wanted.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Smallc

[August1991]

What? You think that every position has to be elected? It's not his job to oppose, it's his job to give an independent analysis of the numbers.

Independent analysis? It is extremely naive to believe that Page can or would do that.

Ottawa, like Washington, is a political town and every one has an agenda.

In the US, the Congress and the President are separate constitutional entities and Congress has its own bailiwicks and power sources.

In Canada, it's different. We have an Official Opposition.

----

I have no problem with independent media or self-financing lobby groups. But Trudeau's idea that the government can finance lobby groups (counterweights) and this will somehow protect democracy is just wrong-headed. It won't work in the long run.

[Smallc]

Independent analysis? It is extremely naive to believe that Page can or would do that.

Why is that? It's his job.

Ottawa, like Washington, is a political town and every one has an agenda.

Everyone everywhere has an agenda - including you.

In the US, the Congress and the President are separate constitutional entities and Congress has its own bailiwicks and power sources.

And?

In Canada, it's different. We have an Official Opposition.

The US also has an opposition. The separation between the executive and legislative branches in the US isn't the same thing as the government - opposition divide in Canada. We do have separate executive and legislative branches as well, the simply cross at certain places in that the government, the advisers to the executive, sit as part of the legislative branch and are accountable to them.

I have no problem with independent media or self-financing lobby groups. But Trudeau's idea that the government can finance lobby groups (counterweights) and this will somehow protect democracy is just wrong-headed. It won't work in the long run.

Except that this was a Conservative idea. It has nothing to do with Liberals or Trudeau.

[Keepitsimple]

The Tories say they can pay off the deficit in 5 years and we all know how correct the minsiter of finance has been right in the past. I can't see how he can without increasing taxes, especially if the economy slows. Page , doesn't agree with the minister and he makes good points. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20101021/page-deficit-101021/

It's all tied to the economy - if it recovers steadily, revenues go up and the Conservative plan can be met. If it doesn't recover steadily, revenues will stagnate ande the plan won't be met. So in some ways, the plan is tied to whether you are an optinist or a pessimist. The Conservative plan is at the mid-range or even low end of the "experts" predictions. Kevin Page is an extreme pessimist. One thing is sure - raising taxes won't do anything to help the recovery......it takes money out of peoples' pockets and takes money away from companies, inhibiting them from hiring people.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

It's all tied to the economy - if it recovers steadily, revenues go up and the Conservative plan can be met. If it doesn't recover steadily, revenues will stagnate ande the plan won't be met. So in some ways, the plan is tied to whether you are an optinist or a pessimist. The Conservative plan is at the mid-range or even low end of the "experts" predictions. Kevin Page is an extreme pessimist. One thing is sure - raising taxes won't do anything to help the recovery......it takes money out of peoples' pockets and takes money away from companies, inhibiting them from hiring people.

Another capitalistic ploy to blame taxation for everything under the sun. Look if business can't stand on its own feet then let it fail. Having the government subsidize or bailout corporate interests should make people realize just how far the concept of corporate governance has gone. Let folks know just how much debt the government has taken on and how much damage it has done to the tax paying citizens. Every dollar given to the government is one dollar less to spend in the true support of an economy. Taxation inhibits everything, yet everything depends on it. What we are looking at right now is the equivalent of economic dark ages where the entire focus of the world is on debt management. We have designed a system that has consumed us ! The great consumer society is becoming a failure because of greed and avarice.

Perhaps it is time to seek fundamental change. Maybe seek a new direction...........

[Keepitsimple]

Perhaps it is time to seek fundamental change. Maybe seek a new direction...........

Vote for Rob Ford....

[William Ashley]

The Tories say they can pay off the deficit in 5 years and we all know how correct the minsiter of finance has been right in the past. I can't see how he can without increasing taxes, especially if the economy slows. Page , doesn't agree with the minister and he makes good points. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20101021/page-deficit-101021/

Wow paying off your overspending in 5 years.... how about the actual debt?? Why are they deficit spending?

Kill the deficit yesterday kill it 100 years ago. STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE AND FORCING PEOPLE TO PAY IT WHO DON'T WANT IT!

Here is a real alternative with some sense.

http://williamashley.info/SOCIAL/SP/SP.htm

EDIT SORRY THAT isn't paying off.. that is stoping overspending --- paying down comes when? When the otherguys are in because of the debt you racked up? Mr. Flahrety is your chin growing?

Candy is wondeful but when the car strikes it ain't so great a feeling.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://thetyee.cachefly.net/Views/2005/09/19/mulroney.png&imgrefurl=http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/09/19/MulroneysWhoppers/&usg=__EKmJEX6btTjCyDWrEQLDSK67Qu8=&h=249&w=230&sz=35&hl=en&start=7&sig2=wtZe8m7ZIirZg0QmUZgm1Q&zoom=1&tbnid=T2DzEQTUKMqRbM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=103&ei=P0fFTM-gCs_tsgbr7KGvCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmulrooney%2Bchin%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D597%26bih%3D341%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C90&um=1&itbs=1&biw=597&bih=341

Edited October 25, 2010 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

BORROW AND TAX AND SPEND IS WORSE THAN TAX AND SPEND..

TRY EARN AND SPEND! GIVE CANADIANS RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT!

TAXATION IS NOT A FORM OF PRODUCTIVITY!

Edited October 25, 2010 by William Ashley

[Bryan]

Why is that? It's his job.

Maybe he should start doing it then.

[charter.rights]

Vote for Rob Ford....

Right. Vote for corruption, lawlessness, public drinking and driving, alienation of Council, and pigheadedness without solutions.

That certainly is a smart idea....if you are a hillbilly...

[Shakeyhands]

Maybe he should start doing it then.

It seems to me that he is doing his job, the only problem is that the reality isn't what Flaherty and Harper are trying to sell.

[William Ashley]

Right. Vote for corruption, lawlessness, public drinking and driving, alienation of Council, and pigheadedness without solutions.

That certainly is a smart idea....if you are a hillbilly...

A vote for a criminal is not a vote for their crimes - many people have committed crimes they later fail to support.

People make mistakes, and when they can recognize them as things they don't seek to repeat then what is the issue?

Not all crimes are done knowingly or intentionally. Some things such as speeding and offences under the influence are done by negligence rather than intent.

[Shakeyhands]

A vote for a criminal is not a vote for their crimes - many people have committed crimes they later fail to support.

People make mistakes, and when they can recognize them as things they don't seek to repeat then what is the issue?

Not all crimes are done knowingly or intentionally. Some things such as speeding and offences under the influence are done by negligence rather than intent.

Correct, some people make mistakes. Some people however, continue to make them. Ford has continued.

[William Ashley]

Correct, some people make mistakes. Some people however, continue to make them. Ford has continued.

OK, now why don't you go to the local politics section of the forum with that thought and stop burrying my wonderful on topic posts such as:

Wow paying off your overspending in 5 years.... how about the actual debt?? Why are they deficit spending?

Kill the deficit yesterday kill it 100 years ago. STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE AND FORCING PEOPLE TO PAY IT WHO DON'T WANT IT!

Here is a real alternative with some sense.

http://williamashley.info/SOCIAL/SP/SP.htm

EDIT SORRY THAT isn't paying off.. that is stoping overspending --- paying down comes when? When the otherguys are in because of the debt you racked up? Mr. Flahrety is your chin growing?

Candy is wondeful but when the car strikes it ain't so great a feeling.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://thetyee.cachefly.net/Views/2005/09/19/mulroney.png&imgrefurl=http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/09/19/MulroneysWhoppers/&usg=__EKmJEX6btTjCyDWrEQLDSK67Qu8=&h=249&w=230&sz=35&hl=en&start=7&sig2=wtZe8m7ZIirZg0QmUZgm1Q&zoom=1&tbnid=T2DzEQTUKMqRbM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=103&ei=P0fFTM-gCs_tsgbr7KGvCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmulrooney%2Bchin%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D597%26bih%3D341%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C90&um=1&itbs=1&biw=597&bih=341

BORROW AND TAX AND SPEND IS WORSE THAN TAX AND SPEND..

TRY EARN AND SPEND! GIVE CANADIANS RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT!

TAXATION IS NOT A FORM OF PRODUCTIVITY!

[Keepitsimple]

Right. Vote for corruption, lawlessness, public drinking and driving, alienation of Council, and pigheadedness without solutions.

That certainly is a smart idea....if you are a hillbilly...

I guess you are from the anybody-but-Ford camp.......the man is no doubt rough around the edges and like most of us, has made a few mistakes....but unlike most of us, he has dedicated a good number of years to helping the less fortunate - without any fanfare. His football coaching is targeted at kids from the tough side of town - kids who without the discipline that he taught them - would have ended up in jail. Yes - a lot of black kids.....and many owe their turnaround to Rob Ford. Does he get paid? No. He is fortunate to have a profitable family business. Does he flaunt it? No....he gives back to the community. Does he abuse his office expenses - heck, he doesn't even use them. There's a reason why Ford is way ahead of Smitherman with the immigrant vote - they know that he respects them! Ford has been entirely consistent in his approach to city spending.....do it wisely. He has not veered from his philosophy of protecting taxpayers' dollars for 10 years.