Merkel says multi-culturalism has absolutely failed in Germany

[bush_cheney2004]

I understand a lot. And I know you do to.

You are but a grasshopper....when you can take the pebble from my hand...it will be time for you to go to America.

No worries, the NAU will make us all the same. How long before that comes into play?

Beats me...ask member Topaz.

[Argus]

Those jobs probably originate from subcontractors who subcontract a specific job to another subcontractor or even further subcontracting with the final result of that job ends up paying very little.

Then again you do have employers that want everything but again pay very little for the multitude of services expected.

This a contributing factor. But essentially, employers will pay as little as they possibly can. bringing in dirt-poor immigrants without options allows them to pay the minimum for a number of jobs. If we stopped bringing in dirt-poor immigrants without skills those employers would have to pay at least a little more to attract employees.

Way back when - I did data entry for Sun Life. Well, actually, I never worked for Sun Life. Sun Life paid its data entry people about $12hr (back then). Along came a company called Business Data Enterprises and promised SL they could do all that stuff a lot cheaper. They paid their data entry people about $8.50hr. As long as they could get people to do it for them it worked. When the economy improved they snivelled about how they couldn't get workers to do the job and complained the government needed to bring in more immigrants.

Some years later a company subcontracted by Nortel try to hire Technical writers for $9hr. They tried to pretend it was an "opportunity". I don't know if they got any. I was incredulous at the offer, and basically laughed at them. But you can bet if they couldn't hire enough people they were screaming at the government that there was a shortage of technical writers and they needed to let them bring in immigrants to do the job.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

Sure, this stuff is fairly well known. What I take issue with is Argus' view that "life in China is not pleasant for most." I don't equate 'not pleasant' with agrarian/non-urban do you?

Agrarian in China means you probably don't have running water, and likely not electricity either. You work in the fields all day, have little access to more than the most basic of medical care or any amenities of life, and live in pretty near complete poverty. You are also subject to the dictatorial whims of every overseere and local bureacrat who wants to make your life miserable.

As for wage earners, there has been a lot written about the abuse of workers who have flooded the new factory towns and cities. Twelve hour days are often the norm, or worse.

Pushing to keep big corporations honest, labor groups regularly smuggle photographs, videos, pay stubs, shipping records and other evidence out of factories that they say violate local law and international worker standards. In 2007, factories that supplied more than a dozen corporations, including Wal-Mart, Disney and Dell, were accused of unfair labor practices, including using child labor, forcing employees to work 16-hour days on fast-moving assembly lines, and paying workers less than minimum wage. (Minimum wage in this part of China is about 55 cents an hour.)

NY times

[Shwa]

Judging by the growing unrest in the countryside and the ever increasing migration to the cities (creating a virtually homeless underclass), I'd say it's not a large leap to say that, cultural standards aside, Chinese farmers and other members of the agrarian class are sick and tired of getting the short end of the stick, which they've been getting for decades, from the Great Leap Forward onward.

I agree with you, sort of. What I find to be the large leap is going from "sick and tired" to "unpleasant" for "most" of the people of a very large population. I am sure that we could both come up with plenty of examples of such unrest, but could we come up with enough examples that would put "most" (of a billion people no less) at risk for this unpleasantness?

It is a leap to think that a country - a leading world economic power - would have so much unpleasantness just under their skin.

Is life for "most" Americans "unpleasant" too? (well, depends on who you talk to right?)

[Shwa]

Agrarian in China means you probably don't have running water, and likely not electricity either. You work in the fields all day, have little access to more than the most basic of medical care or any amenities of life, and live in pretty near complete poverty. You are also subject to the dictatorial whims of every overseere and local bureacrat who wants to make your life miserable.

Those are your standards son, informed by your upbringing in your culture which you are subordinating them to.

Which is ironic since you are continually whining about immigrants not adhering to our standards - heck, they don't even adhere to our standards when they live in their own damned countries.

[GostHacked]

You are but a grasshopper....when you can take the pebble from my hand...it will be time for you to go to America.

I don't need your pebble, I got one of my own.

Beats me...ask member Topaz.

Nope. Asking you.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Is life for "most" Americans "unpleasant" too? (well, depends on who you talk to right?)

Nope....how are things in Canada?

[Michael Hardner]

This a contributing factor. But essentially, employers will pay as little as they possibly can. bringing in dirt-poor immigrants without options allows them to pay the minimum for a number of jobs. If we stopped bringing in dirt-poor immigrants without skills those employers would have to pay at least a little more to attract employees.

Do you think that we should also unionize more to create higher wages for immigrants and other low wage employees ? How much will you bend backwards or leftwards ?

In other news, the German consul-general was on CBC Radio One this morning explaining how Germany is looking at Canada as a model for how multiculturalism has worked. Some of the things she highlighted:

- Canada provides services to help immigrants adjust

- Canada tolerates the retention of home culture for immigrants

- Canada is generally a more flexible and open society

[Michael Hardner]

Those are your standards son, informed by your upbringing in your culture which you are subordinating them to.

You have to be careful though, Shwa, because attributing a desire for more money, more leisure time and a better life to our culture can also lead to some unpleasant conclusions.

[Oleg Bach]

So joining the EU is not a part of a greater multiculturalism? Seems ironic to me.

The EU is not multiculturalism..it is the belated Nazi dream of a united National Socialism..Those in Germany that run the show are as racist as secularist orthodox Jews who view all others as inferiours..All of Europe is now slowly being enslaved-- the attack against pensioners is a prime example of work you into the ground untill you are dead- typical Nazi bullshit.

[Shwa]

You have to be careful though, Shwa, because attributing a desire for more money, more leisure time and a better life to our culture can also lead to some unpleasant conclusions.

Such as...?

[Shwa]

Nope....how are things in Canada?

Pretty much the same.

[Michael Hardner]

Such as...?

Such as " they don't need to be managers, they're so much happier working in the fields " or " they don't understand technology, or need it for their way of life " or " they just don't have the knack for math ".

These myths have all kinds of trappings associated to them.

[Shwa]

Such as " they don't need to be managers, they're so much happier working in the fields " or " they don't understand technology, or need it for their way of life " or " they just don't have the knack for math ".

These myths have all kinds of trappings associated to them.

What kinds of trappings? I am trying to get a sense of where you are going this...

[Michael Hardner]

What kinds of trappings? I am trying to get a sense of where you are going this...

The kinds of trappings I gave examples of.

The standard progression of an economy goes something like: agrarian, to industrial to ... post-industrial or whatever we are now. The Chinese have controls in place to keep people from flooding into the industrial regions - because people would rather do that than work at subsistence farming.

[bjre]

You have to be careful though, Shwa, because attributing a desire for more money, more leisure time and a better life to our culture can also lead to some unpleasant conclusions.

I can hardly disagree the desire for better life itself, but it is the culture you love that fulfill it by kill aboriginals and rob their land, by make bank rules and by launch wars to rober other countries, by make international laws that make workers in developing countries (such as china) to work like slaves for the western countries and take less. You have better life is not due to the culture you love, it is due to robbery, even in your own country, lots of people have nothing left each month after pay tax and morgage, they work hard but take less, but banks make money with nothing, health system make money with monopoly, robery is everywhere, that is the nature of your proud culture.

China is a failed country, it failed to prevent its workers to work like slaves for the western country.

China is a successful country, it succeed in make the live of its people much much better than 30 years ago without invade other countries and rober other countries, that is something no other country did it before.

[bjre]

Very much so. It's why they traditionally leaving China. For better life elsewhere. There are Chinese emigrant even in countries like Honduras, not to mention better countries like Thailand.

There are about 300,000 Canadian living in China currently, that is 1 of every 100 Canadians. If 1 of every 100 Chinese in Canada, that would be 13 million, that would be much more than 1/3 of Canada's population.

How many Canadians are currently living in the US? How many in middle east? How many the gov rescured in a war in middle east a couple of year ago? Is Canada successful?

[Bonam]

There are about 300,000 Canadian living in China currently, that is 1 of every 100 Canadians.

Wanna bet 90%+ of those Canadians are of Chinese ethnicity?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I personally think it failed there because it grows against a grain with those folks. They are deeply insular when you get right down to it.

[Saipan]

Wanna bet 90%+ of those Canadians are of Chinese ethnicity?

Yes, they are all Chinese "canadians".

[Michael Hardner]

I can hardly disagree the desire for better life itself, but it is the culture you love that fulfill it by kill aboriginals and rob their land, by make bank rules and by launch wars to rober other countries, by make international laws that make workers in developing countries (such as china) to work like slaves for the western countries and take less. You have better life is not due to the culture you love, it is due to robbery, even in your own country, lots of people have nothing left each month after pay tax and morgage, they work hard but take less, but banks make money with nothing, health system make money with monopoly, robery is everywhere, that is the nature of your proud culture.

You are the one who is attributing my attitude towards history as a love of my culture. This, in psychology, is known as "projection". Are you proud of Chinese culture ? I'm proud of post-national culture. That is, countries that are based on ideas such as work, freedom, and pursuit of personal goals rather than ethnic, religious or cultural figures.

China is a failed country, it failed to prevent its workers to work like slaves for the western country.

This is the first thing you've ever criticized of China, IMO. It succeeded in getting foreigners to invest, and to help its people prosper better. Also, it lifted itself from 3rd world to 1st world in less than 50 years.

China is a successful country, it succeed in make the live of its people much much better than 30 years ago without invade other countries and rober other countries, that is something no other country did it before.

Ha. I hadn't read this paragraph when I wrote my last one. See ? We agree more than you know.

Who's robbing who ? My friends lost IT jobs and wages because China has come in and undercut us. And, with this kind of robbery - the only recourse is to congratulate the victor, retrain and move on.

[Sir Bandelot]

Who's robbing who ? My friends lost IT jobs and wages because China has come in and undercut us. And, with this kind of robbery - the only recourse is to congratulate the victor, retrain and move on.

Is this robbery, or just competition. Seems to me that robbery is done by force. Your friends lost jobs because someone in charge made the decision that they'd rather go for more money, than lose some money and support an industry based in Canada. In light of your analysis, those are the "robbers".

[Argus]

Do you think that we should also unionize more to create higher wages for immigrants and other low wage employees ? How much will you bend backwards or leftwards ?

I'm not sure what you're asking. No, I don't think we should unionize immigrants. I think we should stop bringing in immigrants. Period. I think there should be no immigration, at least for five years, and then we can allow in only the best immigrants, real immigrants who want to make their lives here, not phony immigrants or people who want to use the Canadian passport as a backstop while they return home. Not people who can't speak English and have no job skills.

In other news, the German consul-general was on CBC Radio One this morning explaining how Germany is looking at Canada as a model for how multiculturalism has worked

.

Consuls and other foreign affairs types know how to say what you want to hear, and there was surely no doubt in his mind what CBC types like you wanted to hear. I'm betting there are absolutely ZERO moves by the German government - which has just formally denounced multiculturalism, to get Canada to educate it on the subject.

[Argus]

Wanna bet 90%+ of those Canadians are of Chinese ethnicity?

You mean phony Canadians. They're people who managed to buy Canadian passports. We do sell them pretty cheaply. Then they arrange things so they never have to spend much time in Canada, while they tuck the passports safely away "just in case" and continue working in Hong Kong (see Lebanon - Canadians).

What does it take to be a Canadian under the "investor" category? You have to lay out $400,000 for Canada savings bonds, essentially. And keep them in for five years. That's pretty much it. Since this is a completely safe investment you'll have no trouble borrowing the money, slap it into a CSB for five years, and you get your passport. Then you sell the bonds, pay back the loan and presto. You're a Canadian!

And the little lefties will get all bug eyed if anyone questions whether you are "every bit as Canadian" as anyone else, too!

Edited October 23, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

I sure hope so...that was my job. All that NAFTA paperwork for Canada still sucks!

It doesn't bother you that your country is headed for bankruptcy does it? Your debt load is already higher than the UK and growing by leaps and bounds. Your society is becoming unstable, with huge cracks erupting between different segments of your society. In the last ten years, 85% of all new wealth went to just the top 1% of the people. Half your population 50% - own just 1% of the wealth. In fact, when it comes to actual wealth; stocks, bonds, investments - almost all of it is held by the top 10% in the United States. Income mobility, something Americans used to brag about, is falling, and is now well below many other nations. Now, much more than in the past, if you're born poor, you'll probably die poor.

You are on your way to becoming a banana republic, with the wealthy living in guarded, walled areas, with the rest - the poor, rooting in garbage outside looking for stale bread to eat.