Canadian Seat on U.N. Security Council

[PIK]

What I find funny is Conservatives bashing the muslim countries for being theocratic states or religious fundamentalists, when that is exactlty the vision the HarperCons have for Canada the only difference being that they want a different name-brand of religious fundamentalism. Read The Armageddon Factor. Lots of these nuts including many CPC MP's are rapturists who believe that returning all the jews to their biblical homeland will help to fullfill biblical prophecy and hasten the "end-times". They are not concerned about the suffering of humanity in general because their "true believers " will be whisked away to heaven before the suffering begins. The Conservatives and their religious right nutjob followers want to make Canada a "Christian state" with a biblicly inpired set of laws.

Enough of the rightwing nut case crap, do you want islam here ,I don't and I am not afraid to say it. Islam is 11 century thinking , at least the christian faith has evolved thru the years ,where Islam has not.( and I have no afiliation with any church) Why do people keep insisting we back the palstines, the arabs run the palastines and they have no say on what goes on, but oh no we have to put all the blame on isreal, a democratic country surrounded by undemcratic countries with very poor human rights issues.Look at a map people at the middle east and see how isreal is surrounded by idiots. Do I believe Isreal has never done anything wrong ,of course not, but when you have a country that still has surivors from the holocaust still in power, with the saying ''never again'', should tell you something especially since they are provoke more than anything into action. Where do arabs escape to ,to get away from the evil doers in there own country, isreal, and please tell me about these MP's that believe what you have said or is it just BS because your argument is so weak. Human nature is something that is at work over there, what do you not understand about it.This country has become so politicaly correct it can't think anymore. Edited October 13, 2010 by PIK

[nicky10013]

That's ludicrous. Hamas and that ilk deliberately launch attacks from these kinds of places, precisely because they know the bleeding hearts will go "Oh my, that evil Israel, blowing up hospitals!"

I'll tell you something, if my neighbor was continually launching rockets at me from the top of his kids' treehouse, I wouldn't be aiming my own strike at his septic tank.

This entire post is incredibly naive. No one denies the actions of Palestine, however, to think that what Israel is doing is so much better simply because they're defending themselves is simplistic at best. Palestinians could easily use the same defense and it would work just as easily. It's a cycle of violence that won't end until one side or both renounce violence. One attack will spur another, despite whatever side it has come from. In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, no amount of head in the sand syndrome can change the fact that both sides are responsible for the violence taking place. Trying to place blame on one side over the other only makes things worse.

This is yet another aspect I find hilarious. I've never taken a side here. I've never said that I support Palestine over Israel. I've said multiple times that I don't support what either side does. However, god forbid Israel gets criticised and look what happens. People go batshit crazy calling Israel a "good and sure ally" when the fact is Israel's actions inflame the middle east just as sure as Palestinian actions or Iranian actions and this flows directly into my next point.

Saying that we have to chose between supporting Israel and Islamic dictatorships is such a rhetorically over the top false choice that it would be funny if it wasn't so god damned stupid. We're supposed to believe that there's some kind of duality between good and evil that, in the middle east, just doesn't exist. Israel is a democracy. So what? Why should we shower preferential treatment on them for being a democracy when they don't act like it? That, surprisingly enough for people who can't think for themselves, actually gives us at least the smallest hint of credibility when we can actually go to the Palestinians and remind them of their own activities.

If we're going to have a "principled" foreign policy, we should be applying it to everyone despite nominal labels. Anything else is hypocritcal. Though, I doubt half the people here would actually understand that.

Edited October 13, 2010 by nicky10013

[bloodyminded]

Do I believe Isreal has never done anything wrong ,of course not

This is what people always say...until you point out some actual things that Israel has done wrong, in which case you're met with tantrums (and, by the slack-jawed, pantywaisted little cowards among us, with accusations of "anti-semitism").

So...what, exactly, are the things Israel has "done wrong"?

[Saipan]

So...what, exactly, are the things Israel has "done wrong"?

For one thing, the friggin' Jews refuse to be exterminated. The audacity!

[nicky10013]

For one thing, the friggin' Jews refuse to be exterminated. The audacity!

Typical. So anyone who doesn't support Israeli actions is a Nazi. Wow. Just wow.

[punked]

The CH has it right on this one:

"Liberals wrong and their leader was stupid to say what he did, but that doesn't make it their fault"

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1206664.html

Edited October 13, 2010 by punked

[Saipan]

Israel's every strike is not some just retaliation against aggression

Yes, it is.

Check the news once in a while.

[Saipan]

So anyone who doesn't support Israeli actions is a Nazi.

What makes you think that?

[bloodyminded]

For one thing, the friggin' Jews refuse to be exterminated. The audacity!

Obviously that's not a response to my question. The other poster said they do things wrong; I'm waiting for some examples.

[bloodyminded]

Yes, it is.

Check the news once in a while.

You mean that "left wing news" that is "biased agaisnt Israel"?

Try to keep your delusions straight.

[Saipan]

You mean that "left wing news" that is "biased agaisnt Israel"?

Any news will do.

Try to keep your delusions straight.

[bloodyminded]

Any news will do.

Try to keep your delusions straight.

My delusion is in thinking you will post something meaningful and intelligent.

But you refuse to do so.

[nicky10013]

What makes you think that?

You just said that.

[bloodyminded]

You just said that.

He's not trying to have a serious discussion, nicky.

[Saipan]

My delusion is in thinking you will post something meaningful and intelligent.

You can always refuse to watch the news. It's a free country.

[Saipan]

You just said that.

If I did, post my words to prove it.

[Shakeyhands]

For one thing, the friggin' Jews refuse to be exterminated. The audacity!

[Saipan]

Exactly.

And your point it?

[capricorn]

But adding Portugal to Europe's seat count could give that region a little too much clout on the UNSC.

When I posted that opinion, it was clear to me that Portugal and Germany occupying seats disproportionately benefited Europe. Here is a good explanation of how Portugal got its name on the short list for a UNSC seat and why Europe is now over-represented on the Council.

The Security Council has 10 temporary members, each serving a two-year term. Theoretically, those 10 temporary members are elected by the General Assembly by secret ballot. In the first round of balloting on Oct. 12, Canada received 114 votes, 13 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to win.

And yes, in that balloting, it's very possible that the Islamic bloc at the UN voted for Portugal over Canada. But it's not the voting that matters at the UN. It's the nominations.

The temporary Security Council seats are assigned to regional blocs. Five seats become available Jan. 1, 2011. One of those seats is assigned to the African bloc. One is assigned to the Asian and Arab bloc, one to the Latin American and Caribbean bloc, and two to the bloc to which Canada belongs: Western Europe and Others.

Each of those regional blocs caucuses separately to determine whom it will nominate to fill its assigned seat.

The Africans nominated one candidate, South Africa, and it was duly elected. The Asians nominated one candidate, India, which was likewise duly elected. The Latin American and Caribbean group nominated one candidate, Colombia, again duly elected.

Noticing a pattern?

But the Western European and others group nominated not the requisite two candidates, but instead three:

Germany and Portugal, as well as Canada. By nominating three, the Western European and Others bloc forfeited its right of decision. That looks like an unwise act. Why did it happen?

The answer has nothing to do with Kyoto or Israel, and everything to do with the internal politics of the European Union. It's the European Union countries that dominate the Western bloc. Increasingly, the EU countries have been negotiating these UN nominations among themselves first. They decide that they want Germany and Portugal -- and then they muscle their way through the rest of the bloc onto the UN floor.

This phenomenon creates two serious structural problems:

- European Union bloc voting gives the EU unintended clout within the Security Council. Remember, Eastern Europe is also a bloc, and it gets one seat on the Security Council, currently held by Bosnia-Herzegovina. Bosnia-Herzegovina is not yet a EU member, but it would dearly like to be, and so would other members of the Eastern European group. The EU can pressure EU applicants into complying with EU wishes, even against a supposed EU ally like Canada.

- Bloc voting by the EU within the Western bloc seriously disadvantages the "others": Canada, Australia and New Zealand. (Israel is an affiliate member of the Western group, and also, by the way, one of two countries in the UN ineligible for Security Council membership. The other is Kiribati, but Kiribati's exclusion is almost certainly only temporary: It only joined the UN in 1999, after all.)

continued

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Stuffing+ballot/3668864/story.html

[bloodyminded]

When I posted that opinion, it was clear to me that Portugal and Germany occupying seats disproportionately benefited Europe. Here is a good explanation of how Portugal got its name on the short list for a UNSC seat and why Europe is now over-represented on the Council.

continued

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Stuffing+ballot/3668864/story.html

Yes, this seems a more reasoned analysis than much of what I've been hearing so far.

[scribblet]

Guess we didn't bribe them enough.

U.N.'s loss, Canada's gain.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

We gained nothing and lost a great deal. It is time to consider our international position from a domestic standpoint. Make our relations a matter of public debate during an election campaign. Put the cards on the table.

[wyly]

We gained nothing and lost a great deal. It is time to consider our international position from a domestic standpoint. Make our relations a matter of public debate during an election campaign. Put the cards on the table.

it was known Harper knew little about international affairs before he became PM, I recall him answering that question and replying he would appoint someone to that position who did...apparently the people appointed didn't know much either...the CPC has the same blinkered arrogant self righteous approach to world politics that the usa has...and the results are similar, countries that respected us are beginning to distrust and dislike us...

[PIK]

We gained nothing and lost a great deal. It is time to consider our international position from a domestic standpoint. Make our relations a matter of public debate during an election campaign. Put the cards on the table.

All we lost was seat on the old boys club that is now being run by dictators and thugs. The UN is not what we think it is , not anymore. Time to just say no to the UN, for anyboidy to think the govermnet is at fault is out to lunch. It proved that past goverments have just done what their were told , give us your money and STFU. Funny how harper questions what is going on and guess what happened ,they went against us, we as a people should ban together on this and show the world we will no longer be pushed around. Like iggy said ,we don't deserve it als long as harper is in power, Translation: Once I am in power we will do what ever you say and never question it. No matter how much you hate harper he is right on this.

[bloodyminded]

All we lost was seat on the old boys club that is now being run by dictators and thugs. The UN is not what we think it is , not anymore. Time to just say no to the UN, for anyboidy to think the govermnet is at fault is out to lunch. It proved that past goverments have just done what their were told , give us your money and STFU. Funny how harper questions what is going on and guess what happened ,they went against us, we as a people should ban together on this and show the world we will no longer be pushed around. Like iggy said ,we don't deserve it als long as harper is in power, Translation: Once I am in power we will do what ever you say and never question it. No matter how much you hate harper he is right on this.

Show the world we will no longer be pushed around?

Who the hell is "pushing" Canada "around"?