ReeferMadness Posted September 27, 2010 Report Posted September 27, 2010 that's just not sensible...are you part of the conspiracy behind every tree group?...research is very expensive the idea that some MD can sit in a lab and invent cures all by him/herself is delusional, it takes thousands of people working for many different companies working on common problems...no one works for nothing, everyone needs to put food on the table, drug treatments aren't going to magically happen on their own... Again with the conspiracy theory accusation. Go back and read the early part of the thread. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
dre Posted September 27, 2010 Report Posted September 27, 2010 Either it isn't enough or they're funding the wrong things. Also, some portion (I wasn't able to find out a percentage)of the CIHR funded research is done in conjunction with "industry partners", in other words the pharmaceutical companies. As for a whole new generation of medicine, I'm getting sick of the good news almost-breakthroughs. How about we get some actual results and then celebrate. It seems like at least once a month I read about some miraculous cancer research discovery. And yet cancer is still the leading killer of Canadians. Go figure. Also, some portion (I wasn't able to find out a percentage)of the CIHR funded research is done in conjunction with "industry partners", in other words the pharmaceutical companies. Fair point I read that as well. I also read there was some contraversy about a Phizer insider being named to a position of power. I was just trying to show that there already IS a huge public investment in such research, I didnt mean to endorse all of the machinations involved. As for a whole new generation of medicine, I'm getting sick of the good news almost-breakthroughs. How about we get some actual results and then celebrate. It seems like at least once a month I read about some miraculous cancer research discovery. And yet cancer is still the leading killer of Canadians. I think there IS actual results. Just not breakthroughs on the scale you (and I) would like to see. But for the most part this is how medicine has progressed for thousands of years. Its a lot of little incremental improvements, and not always the huge advances people would like to see. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted September 27, 2010 Report Posted September 27, 2010 that's just not sensible...are you part of the conspiracy behind every tree group?...research is very expensive the idea that some MD can sit in a lab and invent cures all by him/herself is delusional, it takes thousands of people working for many different companies working on common problems...no one works for nothing, everyone needs to put food on the table, drug treatments aren't going to magically happen on their own... it takes thousands of people working for many different companies working on common problems... Actually many of the biggest advances in medicine and healthcare come from publically subsidized universities not healthcare companies. In large part private companies dont like to do "pure research" because the period between investment and commercialization is too long for most private investors. Generally pure research is government funded, and then private companies develop practical applications based on that research and market them. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bloodyminded Posted September 27, 2010 Report Posted September 27, 2010 Generally pure research is government funded, and then private companies develop practical applications based on that research and market them. Socialized costs, privatized profits. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
wyly Posted September 27, 2010 Report Posted September 27, 2010 Actually many of the biggest advances in medicine and healthcare come from publically subsidized universities not healthcare companies. In large part private companies dont like to do "pure research" because the period between investment and commercialization is too long for most private investors. Generally pure research is government funded, and then private companies develop practical applications based on that research and market them. knowing several researchers personally I can tell you that's incorrect, these researchers do work in publically subsidized universities but what they receive from the government is a tiny fraction of what they receive from private healthcare companies....in the case of one MD it's tens of millions in research funds from a US company to a Canadian MD... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 27, 2010 Report Posted September 27, 2010 Again with the conspiracy theory accusation. Go back and read the early part of the thread. We're always being told that the reason that drugs cost a bloody fortune is that those poor old drug companies spend so much on research.when I see sentence like that I detect a conspiracy theorist... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
ReeferMadness Posted September 28, 2010 Report Posted September 28, 2010 when I see sentence like that I detect a conspiracy theorist... detect whatever the hell you like... I've said plainly that I have no evidence of any conspiracy. I just think the system sucks and produces results that are much more favorable to the drug companies than to the poor schmucks who actually take the drugs. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted September 28, 2010 Report Posted September 28, 2010 I think there IS actual results. Just not breakthroughs on the scale you (and I) would like to see. But for the most part this is how medicine has progressed for thousands of years. Its a lot of little incremental improvements, and not always the huge advances people would like to see. Know any cancer victims? The treatment is barbaric and the results are so abysmal that the cancer industry made up its own yardsticks. Now you are considered a success if you live 5 years from the time you are diagnosed. The cancer industry proudly trumpets it's success in increasing the number of people who live past this arbitrary 5 year line in the sand. But what they don't tell you is that some/most/all of that increase is due to the fact that they can detect tumours earlier than they used to. If you can find the tumour sooner, even if the treatment is absolutely useless, you'll still have an increased 5 year survival rate. Drug companies and doctors are rewarded for treating people, not curing them. Reward mediocrity and failure and you should only expect more of the same. I say reward success. Is that too hard to follow? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted September 28, 2010 Report Posted September 28, 2010 knowing several researchers personally I can tell you that's incorrect, these researchers do work in publically subsidized universities but what they receive from the government is a tiny fraction of what they receive from private healthcare companies....in the case of one MD it's tens of millions in research funds from a US company to a Canadian MD... Yes. These companies get free or cheap facilities and labour to do their research. And the result is mostly "me-too" drugs. Great. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
wyly Posted September 28, 2010 Report Posted September 28, 2010 Yes. These companies get free or cheap facilities and labour to do their research. And the result is mostly "me-too" drugs. Great. sorry you have no idea how it works... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
ReeferMadness Posted September 28, 2010 Report Posted September 28, 2010 sorry you have no idea how it works... Well, again, most of the available information is from the US. But I'm betting it's not much better up here. These laws mean that drug companies no longer have to rely on their own research for new drugs, and few of the large ones do. Increasingly, they rely on academia, small biotech startup companies, and the NIH for that.7 At least a third of drugs marketed by the major drug companies are now licensed from universities or small biotech companies, and these tend to be the most innovative ones.8 While Bayh-Dole was clearly a bonanza for big pharma and the biotech industry, whether its enactment was a net benefit to the public is arguable. Of the seventy-eight drugs approved by the FDA in 2002, only seventeen contained new active ingredients, and only seven of these were classified by the FDA as improvements over older drugs. The other seventy-one drugs approved that year were variations of old drugs or deemed no better than drugs already on the market. In other words, they were me-too drugs. Seven of seventy-eight is not much of a yield. Furthermore, of those seven, not one came from a major US drug company.18 The Truth About Drug Companies So tell us, how does it work? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 28, 2010 Report Posted September 28, 2010 Well, again, most of the available information is from the US. But I'm betting it's not much better up here. Most of the available research is from the US too. You're doing a great job! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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