Israel the welfare state

[Post To The Left]

Israel is not a economically self-sufficient nation, only with charity raised overseas and large influxes of foreign government cash (Mostly from America) can the nation survive. Israel and the Israeli's themselves survive mostly off charity of others, a true welfare state. Without this assistance it would surely collapse, but what weighs the state down? What hobbles its progress?

One factor is the second fastest-growing population of Israel is Israel’s ultra-Orthodox population. A country where the birth rate is dropping should welcome this new expanding Jewish segment yet they refuse to work, and fight in the army. 60% to 70% of fundamentalist Jews prefer to leach off the state because their rabbis told them to stay at home, study the bible and make babies (Orthodox families have upwards of 10 children) while the wife works whatever part-time job she can while living on the dole.

Will Israel be able to limp along with this ball and chain where a large segment of their population refuse to work? The Orthodox themselves say that secular Israelis should work while they take their money to pray providing a so called "spiritual service" to the nation. But should secular Israelis pay that price? The orthodox community ,of which 70% don't work, quickly grow raising the amount of money to support them (Not to mention more secular Jews will have to join the army to protect the non-serving Orthodox population) while at the same time they make more and more demands to turn Israel into an theocratic state.

[bud]

excellent post.

the hasbara-bots will do their best to avoid and not touch this topic as facts and truth ruins their scripts and narratives.

[Guest American Woman]

Why Israel’s high tech economy excels

Israel boasts more companies listed on the NASDAQ exchange than does all of Europe, Korea, Japan, Singapore, China and India combined.

....in 2008 venture capital investments in Israel were 2.5 times greater than in the US, 30 times greater than in Europe, 80 times the level of China and 350 times what India managed.

A country of just 7.1 million people attracted close to $2 billion, as much as flowed into the UK or into Germany and France combined.

And there is no country that spends a higher percentage of its revenues on research and development.

And let's not forget:

Israel was only founded in 1948. It had to absorb millions of penniless refugees from postwar Europe and the surrounding countries, and it has existed in a relentlessly hostile environment.

Yet:

...in little over half a century this “start up state” transformed itself from a besieged backwater with no natural resources to a high-tech powerhouse and one of the most dynamic entrepreneurial countries in the world, in which its economy expanded fiftyfold.

Yeah, Israel's definitely a welfare state......

[DogOnPorch]

Yup...and if the terrorist supporters hate Israel so much they can protest by tossing their Pentium armed computer out the window. That'll teach those dirty Jews.

[bud]

Why Israel’s high tech economy excels

Israel boasts more companies listed on the NASDAQ exchange than does all of Europe, Korea, Japan, Singapore, China and India combined.

....in 2008 venture capital investments in Israel were 2.5 times greater than in the US, 30 times greater than in Europe, 80 times the level of China and 350 times what India managed.

A country of just 7.1 million people attracted close to $2 billion, as much as flowed into the UK or into Germany and France combined.

And there is no country that spends a higher percentage of its revenues on research and development.

And let's not forget:

Israel was only founded in 1948. It had to absorb millions of penniless refugees from postwar Europe and the surrounding countries, and it has existed in a relentlessly hostile environment.

Yet:

...in little over half a century this “start up state” transformed itself from a besieged backwater with no natural resources to a high-tech powerhouse and one of the most dynamic entrepreneurial countries in the world, in which its economy expanded fiftyfold.

Yeah, Israel's definitely a welfare state......

so why do they need the $3 billion of your tax money every year?

[DogOnPorch]

so why do they need the $3 billion of your tax money every year?

Why do you need your computer?

[Bonam]

so why do they need the $3 billion of your tax money every year?

They don't "need" it. While I'm sure it's helpful, they'd be fine without it. Also, just like every other country the US gives money too, they get influence in return.

[DogOnPorch]

They don't "need" it. While I'm sure it's helpful, they'd be fine without it. Also, just like every other country the US gives money too, they get influence in return.

It's just not fair! Oh why oh why did the Soviet Union fall? Oh where are our free MiGs and tanks?

[Post To The Left]

high-tech powerhouse and one of the most dynamic entrepreneurial countries in the world, in which its economy expanded fiftyfold.

I'm sure this was the case at some point. What do you think about this large segment of the population that strives to kill innovation, entrepreneurial spirit while siting in their homes studying the holy books and collecting welfare? Bloomberg.com thinks the state of Israel is under threat because of its status as a welfare state do you disagree with that?

[M.Dancer]

What do you think about this large segment of the population that strives to kill innovation, entrepreneurial spirit while siting in their homes studying the holy books and collecting welfare?

I think they are exercizing their religious freedom, which until the founding of the modern state of Israel, was a precarious and dangerous activity.

What do you think of this large segment of religious scholars?

[Bonam]

What do you think of this large segment of religious scholars?

Personally I think that as their proportion of the population of Israel increases, Israel and the ultra-orthodox Jews will have to accept the reality that they cannot be exempt from service simply because of their religion. Israel has been and continues to be in a precarious position and needs all its citizens contributing their utmost to ensure its survival and prosperity. I also would argue that far from all of them are "religious scholars". That being said, them producing lots of kids is also a good thing, what Israel needs most of all in order to remain a democratic Jewish state is more Jews.

[bush_cheney2004]

Israel is not a economically self-sufficient nation, only with charity raised overseas and large influxes of foreign government cash (Mostly from America) can the nation survive....

Ahem....the very same argument can be made for Canada, which is/was capital poor.

[Shady]

so why do they need the $3 billion of your tax money every year?

Defense. There's a lot of Arabs and Muslims that don't like them very much.

[Post To The Left]

What do you think of this large segment of religious scholars?

That for Israeli society as a whole it means big trouble. Just look at these headlines:

Israel Prosperity Seen Unsustainable as Haredim Refuse to Work

70% of ultra-Orthodox men don't work

Israel At Risk Of Collapse Due To Its Own Welfare State Crisis

The very nature of a large segment of the population refusing to work and then demanding the rest of the country to defend them is very troubling. This is combined with their high birth rate which will means in the next few generation the majority of Israelis will be orthodox Jews who refuse to do anything but study scripture. Then you combine that with the Israeli government. The very nature of the Israeli political system is that the small parties are the King makers and hold the power. The mainstream movements can't form a government on their own so rely on the small fringe parties such as Shas to hold power. This ensures that Israel will never do anything about their welfare state.

But the scary thing is they want to make Israel a theocracy, turn back the clock on a free Israel. Already there are calls for the separation of the sexes (like banning of women from the western wall), turning away from technology, religious controls in all aspects of society. The Haredi sect has already launched a morality police similar to Saudi Arabia. These religious police prowl through Israel seeking violators of a growing list of rabbinical laws such as the recent decree banning the sale of MP4 players.

[Bonam]

The very nature of a large segment of the population refusing to work and then demanding the rest of the country to defend them is very troubling. This is combined with their high birth rate which will means in the next few generation the majority of Israelis will be orthodox Jews who refuse to do anything but study scripture.

I take it by orthodox here you meant ultra-Orthodox. Anyway, you are making a major assumption here, one that is not necessarily valid: that children born to ultra-Orthodox Jews will remain ultra-Orthodox in their religious beliefs. Religious beliefs change throughout one's lifetime. Many people born to Christian and/or Jewish parents end up being agnostic, atheist, members of another sect of that religion, or converting to an entirely different religion. Perhaps religious adherence is higher among children of ultra-Orthodox parents than amongst other religious groups, but perhaps not, and without statistics to back this up you can't assume what you are assuming. Additionally, the hold of religions such as Judaism and Christianity over populations is decreasing in the face of secularism all over the Western world, including Israel, and this is likely a trend that will only continue to accelerate in advanced societies.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Bonam

[Oleg Bach]

The commune - the community - the socialist kabutz..is what it is always about..the gaggle of orgainized shrewdness coupled with mod rule - combined with a tacit leadership of privledged and corrupt elite...that says it all.

[Post To The Left]

Perhaps religious adherence is higher among children of ultra-Orthodox parents than amongst other religious groups, but perhaps not, and without statistics to back this up you can't assume what you are assuming.

The retention rate of Children of ultra-Orthodox parents is quite high due to the total seclusion of Orthodox Jews from Israeli society. Closed ultra-orthodox areas were formed after Israel was created because their immigrant residents wanted to preserve their traditional way of life. Those few who have escaped Fundamentalist Judaism have had a tough go.

According to this BBC report one "Rabbi Noson Weisz has only known four or five cases of people leaving in three decades of work."