Is Islam being political?

[Pliny]

A religion in order to be recognized as such in America needs to be

apolitical or it's religious/charitable status can be revoked.

Could this happen to Islam in the US?

[dre]

A religion in order to be recognized as such in America needs to be

apolitical or it's religious/charitable status can be revoked.

Could this happen to Islam in the US?

Theres no such entity as "Islam". Islamic churches are not part of a central authority that controls policy so you wouldnt see that status being stripped for the religion as a whole. But I can see a certain facility or church losing its tax exempt status for backing specific candidates and that kind of thing, or a number of facilities. And they SHOULD lose it if they do that.

[kimmy]

A religion in order to be recognized as such in America needs to be

apolitical or it's religious/charitable status can be revoked.

Could this happen to Islam in the US?

I assume that would be a decision that would be made on a congregation-by-congregation basis. (I think in Canada we had a case where one Catholic church was threatened with loss of tax-exemption when its priest urged his congregation vote against the Liberals because of their "anti-family, anti-life" views.) It wasn't every Christian church or every Catholic church that was threatened, it was one specific church for one specific reason.

I would assume it would work similarly in the US, and if some mosque became active politically maybe that could happen, but it almost certainly would not affect other mosques.

I also believe that there is probably some actual standard as to what constitutes political action. Do you have some specific incident that you believe applies as political action?

-k

[scribblet]

Islam is both religious and political, it is a way of life, Sharia and an Islamic State are their ideals.

I suppose it should not have religious/charitable status, but no one has the political guts to do it, unless they have a death wish.. hmmmm think about that one.

[dre]

Islam is both religious and political, it is a way of life, Sharia and an Islamic State are their ideals.

I suppose it should not have religious/charitable status, but no one has the political guts to do it, unless they have a death wish.. hmmmm think about that one.

Your classification of "Islam" as being political is subjective. What matters is that Individual islamic churches dont directly fund political campaigns or endorse parties or candidates. And as both Kimmy and I pointed out it would be individual churches that lost their status not "Islam" which isnt even a legal entity that a status can be taken away from or given to in the first place.

[Pliny]

No. I don't have any incident that could be termed political.

I was just interested in a response to the question.

There is no central authority of Islam you say and each one is independent? Does the Catholic church have a central authority?

There is the example you gave of one church getting it's knuckles rapped for promoting political dissension for anti-family, pro-gay political groups and politicians. It is a policy of the church to be pro-family, pro-life so is that being political? Apparently, only if you tell the congregation who to vote for and who not to vote for. How about just for informing the congregation where each politician or political party stands?

It's kind of a sticky situation. The US Constitution states no law should be made regarding an establishment of religion and I suppose that could be conveniently sidestepped by de-legitimizing any religion's status as a religion.

The religion of Islam may have to present evidence of being non-political, as it does tend toward theocracy, and factionalize (I think I made up that word) if it has to agree to fundamental changes that may be presented as conditions of their status and may or may not be agreed to by the various churches.

I guess I really don't know that much about the Islamic religion but it seems to have incorporated law and politics into it's beliefs.

[scribblet]

Your classification of "Islam" as being political is subjective. What matters is that Individual islamic churches dont directly fund political campaigns or endorse parties or candidates. And as both Kimmy and I pointed out it would be individual churches that lost their status not "Islam" which isnt even a legal entity that a status can be taken away from or given to in the first place.

It is not subjective, Islam is a political system, with the end goal, for the radicals anyway, being a global caliphate. We know that in Canada (and other countries) they have requested some forms of Sharia law, it is only a matter of time before it gains more ground.

[Pliny]

It is not subjective, Islam is a political system, with the end goal, for the radicals anyway, being a global caliphate. We know that in Canada (and other countries) they have requested some forms of Sharia law, it is only a matter of time before it gains more ground.

This is an issue with the Islamic religion that will have to be addressed. They tend towards a theocratic government. The future political maneuvering on this issue is a given, in the US at least. We in Canada are more accommodating and tolerant - even of different forms of government. Maybe to our detriment?

[M.Dancer]

Won't fly. Even if a cleric/priest/rabbi/minister/acolyte/wotan nutbar makes political statements, they are protected as free speech.

Now if a cleric/priest etc etc etc...runs for office and uses his/her mosque/church/synagogue/bunker as a political headquarters...then that is another ball of holy wax.

[dre]

It is not subjective, Islam is a political system, with the end goal, for the radicals anyway, being a global caliphate. We know that in Canada (and other countries) they have requested some forms of Sharia law, it is only a matter of time before it gains more ground.

Again, your subjective opinion on that has no relevance. The question isnt whether or not you think Islam as a religion has political aspects. Whats relevent to the question is whether or not any Islamic churches break the specific set of rules required for tax exempt status.

[dre]

Won't fly. Even if a cleric/priest/rabbi/minister/acolyte/wotan nutbar makes political statements, they are protected as free speech.

Now if a cleric/priest etc etc etc...runs for office and uses his/her mosque/church/synagogue/bunker as a political headquarters...then that is another ball of holy wax.

It will fly if we choose to do it. Religious organizations in Canada and the US dont have ANY legal right to tax exempt status. If we want them to pay taxes we simply need to make some changes to the tax code. To do so isnt an infringment of any free speech rights at all.

Heres a Canadian example... This church lost charity status by spending more than 10% of their time on political issues, and not providing good transparency into their spending.

In October, the Kings Glory Fellowship Association, a non-denominational Protestant group, was told by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) that for several reasons, including a lack of clarity on how it spends it money, they could no longer issue charitable receipts.

But the letter highlighted that the group spent more than 10% of its time on non-partisan political activities and therefore strayed into activities outside its stated purpose.

We note ... the members of the Board of Directors espouse strong negative views about sensitive and controversial issues, which may also be viewed as political, such as abortion, homosexuality, divorce, etc.

The CRA allows charitable organizations to spend some time on political activities, but the cutoff is 10%. A spokesman for the CRA was not immediately available to explain how the percentage of time a group spends on non-charitable works is determined.

Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/holy-post/archive/2010/01/22/calgary-church-loses-charitable-status-for-its-quot-non-partisan-political-activities-quot.aspx#ixzz0yrNkHrxm

Edited September 7, 2010 by dre

[Shady]

The question isnt whether or not you think Islam as a religion has political aspects.

There is no question. Sharia seperates Islam from all other major religions.

[M.Dancer]

There is no question. Sharia seperates Islam from all other major religions.

Well....aside from Catholicism, Judaism and most other religions...you are correct.

[Shady]

Well....aside from Catholicism, Judaism and most other religions...you are correct.

Incorrect. There is no Catholic or Jewish equivalent to Sharia law.

[dre]

Incorrect. There is no Catholic or Jewish equivalent to Sharia law.

Thats besides the point. This thread is about a churches political activities in the context of its legal status as a tax exempt charity, and whether "Islam" (Which isnt even an entity that you can give a legal status to in the first place), could lose this status.

Its not another boring ass rant about Sharia Law or Islamic Caliphates.

[GostHacked]

Incorrect. There is no Catholic or Jewish equivalent to Sharia law.

The Jews had their own family court system in Canada. That was axed when the Muslims wanted their own family court system in Canada. It's not quite the same as Sharia Law, but it falls under a family court system, which no longer flies here in Canada.

[M.Dancer]

Incorrect. There is no Catholic or Jewish equivalent to Sharia law.

Of course there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law_(Catholic_Church)

Like Sharia, they are not enforced, unlike Sharia, they once were not that long ago.

[Shady]

Of course there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law_(Catholic_Church)

I wouldn't consider those equivalent to Sharia. You're talking about an area of study necessary to become a priest.

[M.Dancer]

I wouldn't consider those equivalent to Sharia. You're talking about an area of study necessary to become a priest.

I believe I am talking over your head. Canon law used to be the legal force to burn witches, collect tithes, enforce laws against adultry etc etc...

And then there's Jewish law...

[ToadBrother]

A religion in order to be recognized as such in America needs to be

apolitical or it's religious/charitable status can be revoked.

Could this happen to Islam in the US?

First of all, "Islam" is not some big monolith. Islam does not apply for religious status, mosques and other Muslim organizations do.

Secondly, it's never stopped churches before from involving themselves in political debates. Certain priests and bishops were refusing the Eucharist to politicians who supported abortion rights. Many Evangelical organizations have been very clear in their political affiliations. If such behavior is acceptable for Christian churches and groups, then surely it must be acceptable for Muslim groups as well, no?

[scribblet]

Again, your subjective opinion on that has no relevance. The question isnt whether or not you think Islam as a religion has political aspects. Whats relevent to the question is whether or not any Islamic churches break the specific set of rules required for tax exempt status.

The topic is ' Is Islam Being Political

Answer - Islam is always political

[M.Dancer]

A religion in order to be recognized as such in America needs to be

apolitical or it's religious/charitable status can be revoked.

Could this happen to Islam in the US?

Not to be a dick, but is there a cite for this?

The 700 Club comes to mind...

[ToadBrother]

The topic is ' Is Islam Being Political

Answer - Islam is always political

All religion is political, with the possible exception of cloistered orders or religious groups (ie. the Amish).

Edited September 7, 2010 by ToadBrother

[GostHacked]

All religion is political, with the possible exception of cloistered orders or religious groups (ie. the Amish).

Agreed. This is why the US is a Christian nation.

[Guest American Woman]

A religion in order to be recognized as such in America needs to be

apolitical or it's religious/charitable status can be revoked.

Could this happen to Islam in the US?

Religion isn't considered "political" in the U.S. unless a church/religious organization is directly supporting or opposing a specific candidate, or directly involved in trying to pass or prevent passage of specific legislation. Religions may comment on political issues, they just cannot become directly involved.

I don't see how it could happen to "Islam," as each mosque/Islamic organization acts on its own behalf, but it could happen to individual mosques, just as it could happen to individual churches or synagogues.

No Political Activity For or Against Candidates Permitted

Church tax exemptions are in jeopardy if an organization engages in direct political activity either against or on behalf of a political candidate or in an attempt to directly influence the passage of particular legislation. Churches and religious organizations, just as any other tax-exempt charitable organization, are free to comment on any social, political, or moral issues. They may not, however, speak out for or against political candidates if they wish to continue being tax-exempt. Losing tax-exempt status can mean both having to pay income taxes and that donations to the group will not be tax deductible by the donors. link

Edited September 7, 2010 by American Woman