Harper ATV, Day Jet Ski, Trudeau Dive, Chretien Bicycle

[PIK]

When will the left get out of people lives? Really I an getting so sick of ONT making laws for everything,in case we might hurt ourselves. All this did was divide the country even more. People in TO have no fucking idea what goes on outside the city, and they don't care either. I can't even go for a fish and have whiff of beer with out being terrorized by idiot cops in a boat.But I can drive my boat across the ottawa river and sit there and enjoy a beer, but if you try that on the ONT side they can have you arrested and charged with DUI or open booze. MADD is becoming to big and to powerfull, they need to be cut back and get off our backs with alcohol is evil shit. I grew up in a time when drinking and driving was really bad ,countless friends killed and myself with a broken neck, and it is not even close to being that bad right now, but according to MADD there should be bodies lying all over the place. Screw with the numbers and get more money from the goverment, sure saves getting a real job.

Edited August 28, 2010 by PIK

[DrGreenthumb]

When will the left get out of people lives? Really I an getting so sick of ONT making laws for everything,in case we might hurt ourselves. All this did was divide the country even more. People in TO have no fucking idea what goes on outside the city, and they don't care either. I can't even go for a fish and have whiff of beer with out being terrorized by idiot cops in a boat.But I can drive my boat across the ottawa river and sit there and enjoy a beer, but if you try that on the ONT side they can have you arrested and charged with DUI or open booze. MADD is becoming to big and to powerfull, they need to be cut back and get off our backs with alcohol is evil shit. I grew up in a time when drinking and driving was really bad ,countless friends killed and myself with a broken neck, and it is not even close to being that bad right now, but according to MADD there should be bodies lying all over the place. Screw with the numbers and get more money from the goverment, sure saves getting a real job.

I agree with you about MADD, but it is pretty funny complaining about the "left" wanting to get into people's lives when it is the right that is on some moral crusade against people's vices. The right are pushing for laws to imprison more people for what they grow and smoke in their own homes, while complaining that they can't drive around drunk with their shotguns and rifles?

[August1991]

Canada is made up of a lot more diverse people than the old Catholic/Protestant English/French divide. Perhaps you believe that it is still 1950?

No, Shakey. I'm well aware of modern 21st century Canada.

But my reference to this old Canada is a reminder to English-speaking Canadians here that Canada's history is based on compromise. Even before the British arrived, people in Canada compromised. For heaven's sake, Champlain was a Huguenot, a European, who managed to work with Hurons.

For most of Canada's modern history, the 19th and early 20th centuries, religion was the dividing line. Unlike other places, we managed to let Catholics and Protestants live together in peace. In the latter 20th century, language is the dividing line. Once again, we Canadians have managed to keep peace.

By saying "we Canadians", I include all the people who have arrived in the meantime. For example, me. I was born a few years ago in Canada so I guess I am as much an immigrant as anyone else. Am I being politically correct? Not at all. This is how I view Canada, this place.

----

Yes, Canada may find a new political arrangement. Quebec may become a new "country", but if we Canadians do this, we will do it in a civilized manner.

the only reason things like riding an ATV, dancing with natives or playing a piano gets much attention is because Harper is normally so stiff and controlled around the media. He is not an extrovert and doesn't like the media, and he rarely relaxes around them.

I strongly disagree, Argus. I saw him twice, in large groups, and Harper is fine. He's just a WASP.

IYV, this news report in the Toronto MSM may be interesting because it presents Harper out of character but there is a subtext - and IMHO Harper knew exactly what he was doing.

I think American political commentators refer to the ATV episode as a "dog whistle". And the Toronto MSM unwittingly sent the sound loud and clear.

Where did this come from??? Why these cities? Have any stats or polls to back this up in any way whatsoever??? What an odd, sweepingly generalized statement.

MG, I have no stats at all.

It just seems to me that in large cities such as Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal (around 2-3 million or so), coolness is a factor. For truly large cities (over 8 million - Paris, London, Moscow), coolness is irrelevant. In smaller cities than 2 million or so, word-of-mouth matters more.

Montreal is a problem because it is really two cities: one French, and another English.

Anyway, whenever I have been to Toronto, it seems that people are obsessed with "coolness", and house prices.

I'm still curious to see how the Quebec press (Quebec MSM?) will cover this. It may take time. (I note that Duceppe now wants an NHL arena in Quebec City.)

So far, ignored.

The coolness factor of Harper in Quebec is irrelevant. Harper's not cool, and he's not controversial either.

Edited August 29, 2010 by August1991

[Radsickle]

It is fools like this guy that just does not get it.The police chief ass is a political group, what they say has no bearing on real life , but lets talk front line police officers and 92% say the registry is useless, 92% people.

Those 4 RCMP officers you mention later were killed with... wait for it... long guns.

Thanks Small C for noticing PIK's manipulation of percentages...

[Radsickle]

I'd expect that you would find the anecdotal opinion of 2420 front line officers to be far less worthy than that of a few police chiefs.

Yes, the perspective of the officers isn't nearly as wide as the chiefs. I wouldn't care if you could find 5000 front line officers, the majority of their superiors think the registry is a good thing. Period.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Radsickle

[Radsickle]

Fellas, stop and think for a moment... isn't a lot of our debate just an expression of our deep-seated, half-conscious feeling that talking about guns makes one cool?... What if we never saw First Blood? or other movies that conditioned us to worship guns? Would our sentences be the same? Would we strive to be macho in our syntax the way PIK does?

Edited August 30, 2010 by Radsickle

[Wild Bill]

Fellas, stop and think for a moment... isn't a lot of our debate just an expression of our deep-seated, half-conscious feeling that talking about guns makes one cool?... What if we never saw First Blood? or other movies that conditioned us to worship guns? Would our sentences be the same? Would we strive to be macho in our syntax the way PIK does?

Not at all! I've only fired a gun a few times in my life and it wasn't really a thrill. That's why hunting or target shooting never became one of my hobbies.

As for 'macho syntax', to me that's just crap! It's merely an ad hominem attempt to equate being against the gun registry with being some kind of shotgun totin' Bubba!

No, the whole issue comes down to some simple logic, as far as I'm concerned. Criminals don't register their guns and there is no need to fear a law-abiding citizen who's carrying a weapon.

The entire argument for the Liberal gun registry has always seemed specious to me anyways. After all, they never added ONE DAY of mandatory sentence for illegal use of a firearm!

That tells me that they really couldn't care less if a criminal uses a firearm! If they did, it would have been part and parcel of instituting their registry. They never allocated a fiddler's fart towards the idea!

It was all symbol and no substance. Like most Liberal solutions, it was a case of "It doesn't have to WORK! It's enough to say we've got one!"

As a political 'utilitarian', I say 'do it for real' or don't waste my time!

[Radsickle]

Not at all! I've only fired a gun a few times in my life and it wasn't really a thrill. That's why hunting or target shooting never became one of my hobbies.

As for 'macho syntax', to me that's just crap! It's merely an ad hominem attempt to equate being against the gun registry with being some kind of shotgun totin' Bubba!

No, the whole issue comes down to some simple logic, as far as I'm concerned. Criminals don't register their guns and there is no need to fear a law-abiding citizen who's carrying a weapon.

The entire argument for the Liberal gun registry has always seemed specious to me anyways. After all, they never added ONE DAY of mandatory sentence for illegal use of a firearm!

That tells me that they really couldn't care less if a criminal uses a firearm! If they did, it would have been part and parcel of instituting their registry. They never allocated a fiddler's fart towards the idea!

It was all symbol and no substance. Like most Liberal solutions, it was a case of "It doesn't have to WORK! It's enough to say we've got one!"

As a political 'utilitarian', I say 'do it for real' or don't waste my time!

roger dat. I don't want my tax dollars wasted either. But they musta wasted taxpayer money on some study in the 90's that recommended this registry. It doesn't cost much now, Canada's honourable law enforcement spokespeople are in favour of it, and Harper would be a political fool to destroy it.

Makes sense, eh?

[Smallc]

Yes, the perspective of the officers isn't nearly as wide as the chiefs. I wouldn't care if you could find 5000 front line officers, the majority of their superiors think the registry is a good thing. Period.

Well, it's not so much that. We don't know what the officers really think at all, because this isn't a scientific poll.

[Wild Bill]

roger dat. I don't want my tax dollars wasted either. But they musta wasted taxpayer money on some study in the 90's that recommended this registry. It doesn't cost much now, Canada's honourable law enforcement spokespeople are in favour of it, and Harper would be a political fool to destroy it.

Makes sense, eh?

Maybe it makes sense but that's NOT what happened! You really should pay attention to history.

What happened was a nutjob named Marc LePine taking a semi-automatic rifle to a Montreal school and murdering 14 women, injuring another 14 people, mostly women! He had declared his hatred of women and made them his main targets.

The incident promptly became all about women's issues and not about nutjobs. The Liberals immediately offered a new gun registry that was supposed to make us safer, implying that during the previous years we had no gun control at all, which was a load of crap! I guess to some people if they haven't heard of something it never existed. Ah, ignorance!

Only the big cities in Ontario and the province of Quebec seemed to support the idea. To me at the time, it seemed as if rational voices went unheard and everybody was on an emotional, politically correct bandwagon. If you tried to criticize not the idea of a registry but rather the way the LIBERAL registry was put together you were immediately branded as anti-women and ignored.

When the costs of the registry hit over $2 billion dollars you still dared not criticize, or you were accused of putting a price on women's lives!

All the logical criticisms of the Liberal registry were pointed out beforehand but as I said, no one in power cared. The Liberals got a lot of votes from those areas of the country that were their power base. They didn't really care about the other areas.

When I think about how many more police on duty we could have had for that kind of money!

Edited August 30, 2010 by Wild Bill

[PIK]

Those 4 RCMP officers you mention later were killed with... wait for it... long guns.

Thanks Small C for noticing PIK's manipulation of percentages...

And this man was well known to have guns and had threaten police before ,they knew what they were getting into and the poor lads were killed. That was not the gun registry that got them killed it was the officer giving the orders, he screwed up not the hunter/farmer .

[Argus]

Those 4 RCMP officers you mention later were killed with... wait for it... long guns.

Thanks Small C for noticing PIK's manipulation of percentages...

And so what, ultimately, did the registry accomplish in that case?

Absolutely nothing. Which is par for the course.

[Argus]

Yes, the perspective of the officers isn't nearly as wide as the chiefs. I wouldn't care if you could find 5000 front line officers, the majority of their superiors think the registry is a good thing. Period.

Given the quality of those who are sslected to run police forces in Canada I'll go with the guy in the street. Most of the police chiefs I've seen were and are chosen for their political correctness, and their eagerness to bow to the will of the municipal council on a variety of issues. They are most definitely NOT selected because of their outstanding policing skills. Toronto's chief is a case in point: a bumbling imbecile who screwed up the G20 security so bad there'll be lawsuits for years over it.

[nicky10013]

Given the quality of those who are sslected to run police forces in Canada I'll go with the guy in the street. Most of the police chiefs I've seen were and are chosen for their political correctness, and their eagerness to bow to the will of the municipal council on a variety of issues. They are most definitely NOT selected because of their outstanding policing skills. Toronto's chief is a case in point: a bumbling imbecile who screwed up the G20 security so bad there'll be lawsuits for years over it.

He wasn't the one who screwed it up. Hard to plan security for such a large event in the 6 months notice the City of Toronto was given that we'd be having the G20.

[jefferiah]

Not at all! I've only fired a gun a few times in my life and it wasn't really a thrill. That's why hunting or target shooting never became one of my hobbies.

As for 'macho syntax', to me that's just crap! It's merely an ad hominem attempt to equate being against the gun registry with being some kind of shotgun totin' Bubba!

I have never fired a gun period. I live in a rural area though. And growing up around here most houses had guns in them. We had guns. Long guns, that is. And I haven't met anyone who goes around firin' off shots and screaming "Yeehaw!" Hunting in the fall is pretty traditional around here. I was practically the only guy in my school who did not take off the morning of October 1st for the 1st day of duck hunting. It is something a lot of urban people (not all) seem so distanced from. Almost like two different worlds in some ways. I've seen shocked reactions from some Ontario friends when you tell them you have guns in your house. But it's not uncommon here. Even for people who do not use them. Family members would pass guns on. Father to son. Or even sometimes friends give them away. That may seem odd to some people, but no one is using them to shoot up the neighbourhood. It's basically like making a gift of a fishing rod.

[Visionseeker]

Canadians are French and English, Catholic and protestant. We have managed to live together, more or less, in peace.

We compromise.

-----

Quebec may become a new country but if it happens, we Canadians will do this in a civilized manner. We are a civilized people.

Canada is much more than two linguistic groups and 2 religions. But I agree that the polity has managed to live together in peace for the most part (ignoring the occasional rebellion, conscription, our treatment of aboriginals, and the FLQ). We do compromise or govern by concensus.

But if you think for one minute that Quebec can achieve independence in a calm transition you are nuts. First of all, Parlament becomes defunct. Devoid of any authority to speak on behalf of constituencies that quite rightly will look towards their provincial premiers to represent their interests.

The idea that an independent Quebec negotiates with a single entity in Ottawa is the single most absurd notion of the soverignty movement. For either Canada is indevisible or it is not. And if the federal government cannot defend the nation's indivisibility by preventing Quebec's session, then the nation divides into it's components over night. And that would precipitate an environment that would fullfil the worst fears of any Québécois: to live in a continent that has become entirely hostile to its existence.

[Visionseeker]

And this man was well known to have guns and had threaten police before ,they knew what they were getting into and the poor lads were killed. That was not the gun registry that got them killed it was the officer giving the orders, he screwed up not the hunter/farmer .

Um, the officers secured the location with the suspect appearing nowhere on the premises. Meanwhile, after having fled the scene he hooked-up with friends who supplied him with both a ride and weapon so that he could go out in a blaze of glory.

He had the advantage of surprise and, in his control/view of the killing field, superior fire position. Four members of the Canadian Forces with full kit and fully trained in counter-ambush tactics whould've been hard pressed to come out alive.

The gun registry didn't prevent their deaths, but it did bring his enablers to justice.

[Shakeyhands]

The Toronto MSM is going to compare Harper's ATV ride with Stockwell Day's Jet ski arrival.

Check out the ATV video here. Unless they compare it with Harper's singing gig at the National Arts Centre, which in the MSM mindframe, is closer to a dive or a bicycle. Cool.

----

Two points about all of this.

1. Outside of Toronto, and maybe Montreal, Canadians don't choose politicians based on coolness. By and large, Canadians (unlike MSM journalists) are not celebrity groupies. We are curious about these antics, and will click on the link, but we don't go ga-ga or judge based on them. (This includes Stanfield's famous drop of the football.)

2. Let me contradict in a way my point above. Most urban Canadians who live in their hermetic urban world only know that an ATV is something that they don't want. By riding around in an ATV, Harper has made a strong point about Canada, the country as it is.

Funny how this turned out to be not a big deal in the media at all. Too bad huh.

[William Ashley]

What is this word association?