bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 ....I haven't exactly seen you Yankee-bashers come up with a single solution that it any way would have recognized the realities of the situation. You're all worse than arm chair generals, your ignoramuses judging hard choices by some bizarre inflexible code of conduct designed more for your own sanctimonious self-gratification than as a rational exploration of the situation in the summer of 1945. Damn!! I think I'm gonna cry...that was beautiful. Semper Fi! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Damn!! I think I'm gonna cry...that was beautiful. Semper Fi! Yes indeed. Five stars. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 ....I haven't exactly seen you Yankee-bashers come up with a single solution that it any way would have recognized the realities of the situation. You're all worse than arm chair generals, your ignoramuses judging hard choices by some bizarre inflexible code of conduct designed more for your own sanctimonious self-gratification than as a rational exploration of the situation in the summer of 1945. Its not yankee bashing at least on my part. I would reject the intentional wholesale slaughter of civilians NO MATTER WHO perpetrated it. And youre the biggest armchair general here. You dismiss all of the other options out of hand based on pure assumption and speculation. Youre really just parroting the exact same thing post hoc rationalization made at the time. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 If targetting civilians is the moral way to fight wars then lets nix all the treaties weve signed since WW2. And remember all your assumptions, and post hoc rationalization when an ENEMY using those same rationalizations chooses YOUR city to make an example of. You can applaud their moral superiority the last moment before youre vaporized. We're talking about August 1945. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 We're talking about August 1945. Emotions trump historical fact! LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Emotions trump historical fact! LOL! America = Dr Evil ...oh wait...Oh Canada. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 We're talking about August 1945. Its no more wrong to intentionally target civilians now than it was then. Forcing an enemy to surrender by annihilating cities full of civilians is IMHO the wrong thing to do EVEN IF you can make an argument from utility based on assumptions about what might have happened. But thats fine... we can agree to disagree. Ill stick with the belief that its wrong to slaughter huge ammounts of civilians intentionally. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Its no more wrong to intentionally target civilians now than it was then. Forcing an enemy to surrender by annihilating cities full of civilians is IMHO the wrong thing to do EVEN IF you can make an argument from utility based on assumptions about what might have happened. But thats fine... we can agree to disagree. Ill stick with the belief that its wrong to slaughter huge ammounts of civilians intentionally. So you would have been for invasion? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 America = Dr Evil ...oh wait...Oh Canada. No America and the allies wer not "Doctor Evil". They were the good guys and we are all lucky they won. But that doesnt mean that every single thing they did during the war was right... even though the propoganda you guys have grown up with and swallowed hook line and sinker tries to paint that picture. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 No America and the allies wer not "Doctor Evil". They were the good guys and we are all lucky they won. But that doesnt mean that every single thing they did during the war was right... even though the propoganda you guys have grown up with and swallowed hook line and sinker tries to paint that picture. Oh yawn. Thank goodness for you and your deep understanding of the War in the Pacific/SEA. So you'd invade rather than drop the Bombs? Or would you do SFA and let the Empire of Japan do as it pleased? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Iwo Jima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD89Z0_Rav8 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 So you would have been for invasion? No, I would have been for trying to force a surrender without targetting massive ammounts of civilians. I definately would have continued the blockade and embargo which was already mostly in place. Sea lanes too and from Japan were already mostly closed. I would have continued with a bombing campaign against military targets anyways since by that time the Japanese could do little resist it. I also would have considered atomic detonations that DIDNT target civilians. A third atomic bomb would have been available by the third week of August, and three more were on their way shortly after that. Thats six total. I probably would have dropped the first four in areas where the massive destructive capability of the weapons could have been demonstrated without the civilian casualties. It would have at least been worth a try and if that didnt work youd still have 2 more to drop on cities, and it would have only set you back a few weeks. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 So you would have been for invasion? LOL! I love this....the "moral choice" was an invasion...but not by Canada! Or "naval blockade"....but not by Canada! Goddamn American bastards should have done the right thing and killed the Japanese one bullet or incendiary bomb at a time. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 What if yon bomb demonstration went pffffft??? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Iwo Jima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD89Z0_Rav8 Heat 'em up! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 LOL! I love this....the "moral choice" was an invasion...but not by Canada! Or "naval blockade"....but not by Canada! Goddamn American bastards should have done the right thing and killed the Japanese one bullet or incendiary bomb at a time. Im not sure if you two spend more time with your noses up each others assholes, or inventing positions for other posts. Probably about 50/50? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 LOL! I love this....the "moral choice" was an invasion...but not by Canada! Or "naval blockade"....but not by Canada! Goddamn American bastards should have done the right thing and killed the Japanese one bullet or incendiary bomb at a time. I think folks like dre like to see things done evenly in war. You know...nice and fair. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Im not sure if you two spend more time with your noses up each others assholes, or inventing positions for other posts. Probably about 50/50? Yes...and we're popular with the ladies, too. Should I describe one to you? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) I think folks like dre like to see things done evenly in war. You know...nice and fair. Thats just another strawman. My position is that Im AGAINST the wholesale slaughter of civilians during war time. Youre for it. Edited August 10, 2010 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Yes...and we're popular with the ladies, too. Should I describe one to you? Here's one of "our" favorites....B-52 not B-29! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Thats just another strawman. My position is that Im AGAINST the wholesale slaughter of civilians during war time. Youre for it. We're talking about WW2....I'm for accurate history. Not rose coloured glasses. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) Here's one of "our" favorites....B-52 not B-29! Luv it! By Gott! Edited August 10, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Thats just another strawman. My position is that Im AGAINST the wholesale slaughter of civilians during war time. Youre for it. What about dogs and cats? Or Harpy seals? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 Luv it! It's even funnier in German...at least I think it's German. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted August 10, 2010 Report Posted August 10, 2010 It's even funnier in German...at least I think it's German. Ja! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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