Multicultural Chaos in Britain

[Michael Hardner]

you're actually wrong on every count, scientific and mathematical literacy down, antisocial behaviour up, school shooting up, suicides up, since the advent of third world immigration (after about 1962) and after the multicultural act in the 80's, crime rates were at all time highs in canada:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CanadaViolentCrime.gif

and of course police effectives before the "immigration revolution" in the 60's, were about 1/3 what they are today, yes the crime rate has stabilized (somewhat) but at an enormous cost and increased surveillance.

Also diverse cities such as Saskatchewan, Toronto etc have seen the highest crime rates in the past decade then ever in recorded history. In fact crime follows diversity.

And every year, you have to stretch even further to make the case that things are getting worse because of 3rd world (which is to say non white) immigration.

How many immigrants are causing crime in Saskatchewan, now ?

[TimG]

This could have been thread on how a system was supposed to a genuine effort to help those in need has been twisted into an entitlement that insults the people that are expected to pay for it. Instead it has been side tracked by the race issue.

[Jack Weber]

And every year, you have to stretch even further to make the case that things are getting worse because of 3rd world (which is to say non white) immigration.

How many immigrants are causing crime in Saskatchewan, now ?

Ruh roh,Shaggy....

Now you've opened the door for him to go into a lengthy dissertation on why Aboriginals are gentically inferior to Caucasians...

[lictor616]

And every year, you have to stretch even further to make the case that things are getting worse because of 3rd world (which is to say non white) immigration.

How many immigrants are causing crime in Saskatchewan, now ?

in sask, were talking about the mad cows and other abo organized crime,

but of course, the prostitutes in our government don't compile racial stats in canada... however, we get clues from the press and victimization reports, and for instance, in toronto, in 2003 43 of the 61 gun deaths were caused by one immigrant group: jamaicans... the fact that non diverse cities are conspicuously free of high crime rates (quebec city? anyone) is confirmation enough.

now of course liberals will use the "poverty causes crime argument"... but then again minorities are notoriously poor...

[Michael Hardner]

in sask, were talking about the mad cows and other abo organized crime,

So how do you reverse the polarity on your immigrant argument... oh wait... right... it's really about race anyway, right ? I forgot.

[lictor616]

So how do you reverse the polarity on your immigrant argument... oh wait... right... it's really about race anyway, right ? I forgot.

correct its about diversity, and what little positive aspects it brings to our country...

THe native argument I would have thought is a great one, 400+ years of living side by side... and for some reason it hasn't been a positive relationship for either of us...

but whoops, its true that considering such issues should be illegal right Micheal?

[Michael Hardner]

correct its about diversity, and what little positive aspects it brings to our country...

THe native argument I would have thought is a great one, 400+ years of living side by side... and for some reason it hasn't been a positive relationship for either of us...

but whoops, its true that considering such issues should be illegal right Micheal?

Diversity isn't the right word. Non-European is what you mean.

There are some nations that have done better than others.

Considering anything shouldn't be illegal, but broadcasting hate or being you should be.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Considering anything shouldn't be illegal, but broadcasting hate or being you should be.

So much for free speech and freedom of expression, eh? This does not seem to be consistent with your stance on the NYC mosque.

[GostHacked]

Although I like this technology.....

Children have a better capacity to learn new languages than adults, and it can be done in as little as a couple years. My friend's 15 year old daughter speaks english, german, italian, and french. She was brought up learning several languages, it's one hell of an advantage.

Actually, with this technology it might make it easier to learn a new language.

[lictor616]

Diversity isn't the right word. Non-European is what you mean.

There are some nations that have done better than others.

ahhaah, the question was whether or not DIVERSITY CAN PROVIDE A STRENGTH FOR A COUNTRY.... and as I often do in these pages, I can list innumerable SERIOUS weaknesses and flaws, but no real advantages whatsoever, save perhaps culinary diversity.

but really? some countries are doing better the others?

oh really!? pray tell...

[lictor616]

Considering anything shouldn't be illegal, but broadcasting hate or being you should be.

broadcasting? how many people do you know got fired from their jobs due to leaked private conversations where people utter racist sentiment? THe Texaco fiasco anyone?

and thank you for telling us that you disapprove of free speech, it narrows down what you represent nicely... bigotry and hatred.

Edited July 14, 2010 by lictor616

[lictor616]

Although I like this technology.....

Children have a better capacity to learn new languages than adults, and it can be done in as little as a couple years. My friend's 15 year old daughter speaks english, german, italian, and french. She was brought up learning several languages, it's one hell of an advantage.

Actually, with this technology it might make it easier to learn a new language.

my firend's friend`s firend`s friend blah blah blah...

okay I speak 3 languages, my first language is French, second english, third spanish, I also know a smattering of Portuguese and German... I come from a school with many other multilingual speakers... 99% of which know usually have one good language. but we've noticed that its hard to be multilingual and MASTER ONE specific language.

and its not very realistic to expect children not raised in multilingual backgrounds to learn a second or third language... it has to do with immersion... anyways.

[GostHacked]

my firend's friend`s firend`s friend blah blah blah...

You really come off as a total ass at times.

okay I speak 3 languages, my first language is French, second english, third spanish, I also know a smattering of Portuguese and German... I come from a school with many other multilingual speakers... 99% of which know usually have one good language. but we've noticed that its hard to be multilingual and MASTER ONE specific language.

Great, you know several languages, that's a good thing is it not? Not to mention English is one of the harder languages to master. I only speak english and I am no where near the master of it. I doubt many people are masters of the native language they speak, or of the only language they speak.

and its not very realistic to expect children not raised in multilingual backgrounds to learn a second or third language... it has to do with immersion... anyways.

Why is it not realistic? Learning a second language at an early age benefits them in the long run. You would be better off saying it's not common or expected for children raised in a single language to learn a second or third. It is realistic, but not common.

[Bonam]

Not to mention English is one of the harder languages to master.

Ugh. Not again with this.

[lictor616]

Why is it not realistic? Learning a second language at an early age benefits them in the long run. You would be better off saying it's not common or expected for children raised in a single language to learn a second or third. It is realistic, but not common.

It isn't realistic because it nearly impossible to get a significant numeb of people to IMMERSE themselves in mutliple languages. If the language at home is english only... good luck! I know that without my parents speaking frenglish at home, i for sure would have never progressed beyond french.

you can immerse more then a mINORITY of chidren like that, and having them go to schools where there are 30 different speakers insures that immersion will not happen for ANY language, which is a serious problem.

[Michael Hardner]

So much for free speech and freedom of expression, eh? This does not seem to be consistent with your stance on the NYC mosque.

I don't see it.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't see it.

Hate speech and expression is protected....except in Canada?

[Michael Hardner]

Hate speech and expression is protected....except in Canada?

How is it inconsistent with my stance on the NYC mosque ?

[bush_cheney2004]

How is it inconsistent with my stance on the NYC mosque ?

First Amendment.....speech and religion....in all forms whether you agree or not.

[Michael Hardner]

First Amendment.....speech and religion....in all forms whether you agree or not.

You and I both believe in limits on free speech, it's where you set the bar that we disagree.

That's not being inconsistent, as in some kind of logical tautology - it's just a qualitative difference.

[bush_cheney2004]

You and I both believe in limits on free speech, it's where you set the bar that we disagree.

That's not being inconsistent, as in some kind of logical tautology - it's just a qualitative difference.

Not if you insist on silencing another member's "hate speech". The difference is stark.

[GostHacked]

It isn't realistic because it nearly impossible to get a significant numeb of people to IMMERSE themselves in mutliple languages. If the language at home is english only... good luck! I know that without my parents speaking frenglish at home, i for sure would have never progressed beyond french.

Since you speak multiple languages yourself, I fail to see how it is nearly impossible. It is a matter of exposure, and we are getting more exposed to different languages as we shrink the world through technology. You are proof that it can happen. Again it's not unrealistic, it's just not common. And your OP shows that people are getting exposed to multiple languages and it is very real and realistic.

you can immerse more then a mINORITY of chidren like that, and having them go to schools where there are 30 different speakers insures that immersion will not happen for ANY language, which is a serious problem.

Hell it's a problem with two languages. But with this technology allowing the one language to be translated into many, I fail to see how this is a real problem. I mean it can also be used as a learning tool for all to learn a new language. It would make it easier for the teacher as well. The teacher does not need to know 30 different languages but with the exposure to other languages that teacher will pick up the other languages to a certain extent.

If you want consistency and English to be heard, then this is a great way for those kids to learn English, being the language of England. It will eventually create a cohesion you are looking for, and less problems down the road.

[Michael Hardner]

Not if you insist on silencing another member's "hate speech". The difference is stark.

Only in your mind.

I don't silence anything, the group that is tasked with governance will assist with public communication.

And just as they will stop people from saying "This snake oil cures cancer." so they will stop people from saying "This race causes crime.".

Society can bear certain types and amounts of lying and manipulation, since we have to rely on the public to know for themselves, but extreme examples of such communication are pernicious and expensive to society. I'm sure there are some examples that you would regulate as well, therefore we're talking about quality of communication only here.

[Argus]

People have been claiming this for decades.

And in those decades, our crime rate has dropped, our standard of living has risen.

There is some evidence our crime rate has dropped - though it is not conclusive. I'm not aware of anything which says our standard of living has improved in any part due to immigration. Perhaps you can provide this information.

As counterpoint, this comes from a federal government web site.

Since the 1980s, Canada has seen its standard of living erode relative to that of other advanced countries, such as many West European states, some “Asian Tiger” nations and the United States.

Canada's Productivity and Standard of Living

Edited July 15, 2010 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

Only in your mind.

I don't silence anything, the group that is tasked with governance will assist with public communication.

A not so elegant retreat. The "group" should do no such thing in the way of "assistance".

And just as they will stop people from saying "This snake oil cures cancer." so they will stop people from saying "This race causes crime.".

Wrong....we are free to make any claim with respect to snake oil, so long as product and money do not change hands. Ditto "race and crime".

Society can bear certain types and amounts of lying and manipulation, since we have to rely on the public to know for themselves, but extreme examples of such communication are pernicious and expensive to society. I'm sure there are some examples that you would regulate as well, therefore we're talking about quality of communication only here.

No we are not....you accept such fundamental government limits on speech and expression....I do not. You are Canadian...I am not.