Why I think Stephen Harper has lost my vote...

[Smallc]

If that were only the problem, I could live with it. But I don't want a federal politician who approves billions on a three-day summit.

Well then you're never going to find a federal politician. These summits are very necessary, and pulling out of them because we can't afford to hold them would be quite embarrassing.

[Argus]

I don't agree. Canadians don't want to see the country stay in deficit. There won't be any push from anyone (save maybe the NDP) to keep Canada there.

Canadians don't like deficits, but Canadians are spoiled. They'll all tell you not to overspend your budget, but look at the great hew and cry whenever the tories cut even small programs. Cutting a few arts programs nobody heard of cost them all their gains in Quebec. You think they didn't learn anything from that? You think the Liberals didn't? Canadians have come to believe they are entitled to have their cake and eat it too, and no politician is going to tell them different with an election around the corner.

[segnosaur]

And apparently, Harper doesn't get women, or Quebec either.

And once again... Quebec is traditionally a "socialist" region... with higher taxes/higher social spending. The only way he can 'get' Quebec is to basically take on socialist principles, i.e. betray his whole political philosophy.

If that were only the problem, I could live with it. But I don't want a federal politician who approves billions on a three-day summit.

So, would you prefer Canada drop out of the G8/G20 (and accept whatever loss of international influence/recognition that comes with it)?

I asked this before but you never answered... what exact expenses from G8/G20 do you have an issue with?

Oh, and I notice you also haven't yet responded to the other point I made... if you really are "fiscally conservative", why did you suggest supporting the Bloc, a party that, as part of its platform in previous elections, wanted higher spending and higher taxes?

[Smallc]

Canadians have come to believe they are entitled to have their cake and eat it too, and no politician is going to tell them different with an election around the corner.

Canadians will accept big cuts. Like I said, they've done it before.

[Argus]

What do you think Argus? You're a federal bureaucrat. Do you think Harper and the Conservatives have control of the bureaucracy, or are they amateurs?

I think when it comes to projecting image and getting their message across they are the most bumbling amateurs since Clouseau. Except Clouseau had luck on his side and the Tories don't.

I think the Tories have as much control of the bureaucracy as any bunch of politicians - who are inherently amateurs compared to the bureaucrats - is going to have. But I think their inclination to cut and slash and save money runs contrary to Harper's practicality which says if he cuts and slashes to save money people will turn against him and go over to the Liberals (a not unreasonable assumption).

I think the only possible cost cutters on the horizon would be a future Tory majority government. I see no possibility of anyone else applying major cuts to programs. Yes, the Liberals did so once, but only in the absence of any real opposition. And that was going against THEIR natural inclinations, and only done because everyone recognized just how severely into debt we were getting after a dozen years of big deficits.

[Argus]

Canadians will accept big cuts. Like I said, they've done it before.

Canadians had no one else to vote for last time. All the parties are well aware of this.

[Smallc]

Canadians had no one else to vote for last time. All the parties are well aware of this.

Canadians also see the problems caused by debt in other countries. That's why I'm not worried in the least. Even if there are not large costs, budgets will be balanced.

[August1991]

And once again... Quebec is traditionally a "socialist" region... with higher taxes/higher social spending.

How ignorant. I fear that Harper shares your viewpoint.

---

On this day of all.

Edited June 24, 2010 by August1991

[Smallc]

How ignorant. I fear that Harper shares your viewpoint.

It's not ignorant at all. Quebec is the most socialist province in Canada. That doesn't mean that it is socialist. It means that it is more so than other provinces.

[August1991]

It's not ignorant at all. Quebec is the most socialist province in Canada. That doesn't mean that it is socialist. It means that it is more so than other provinces.

Yours is the perception in English Canada.

The world is something else again. That is, Quebec is hardly socialist - as English Canadians understand the word.

----

And Smallc, what does "Quebec is the most socialist province in Canada. That doesn't mean that it is socialist." supposed to mean?

Edited June 24, 2010 by August1991

[Smallc]

And Smallc, what does "Quebec is the most socialist province in Canada. That doesn't mean that it is socialist." supposed to mean?

Quebec is the most socialized of all of the provinces. It has the most public services and the highest taxes. My province is little different in this regard, though less so.

[Moonbox]

1. He wasted my tax money on nonsesne. I voted for a fiscal conservative.

I'm not particularly pleased about it, but it would be interesting to find out what other leaders spent.

2. He's incompetent, an amateur PM. No Canadian PM should say that international matters are more important than domestic matters, ever.

As far as I can tell from the quote, he didn't say that. I'm almost certain he didn't say that and you confused the language. He said that as a PM it becomes a much bigger part of the picture than when you're in opposition. That's all.

3. To win a majority, all he needed was women and Quebec. He got neither.

To be fair, he was never ever going to win the woman vote with his stance on abortion. You don't get the woman vote by bible-thumping.

As for Quebec, he lost their vote on the funding of arts programs...ARTS PROGRAMS. I think that speaks much louder of the incompetence of the average Quebec voter than it does of the PM.

To finish, I'm not defending him. He's not a great PM, but other than the spending I find your reasons for disliking him a little contentious.

[Shady]

Or how about Harper's handling of Quebec and women.

I don't care about his handling of Quebec. And I don't know what you mean about his handling of women. I get tired of race, or sex, or language based politics. I don't want him to say one thing to Quebecers, and another thing to women, and another thing to some other constituency group. I hate that type of shit. If that's why you don't like Harper, then I'm glad. Move along and vote for somebody else. That's not what I want from the Conservative party.

Or worse, how did the federal government agree to spend $1.2 billion on these summits.

Grow up. I was our turn to host these summits. Just the way other countries hosted them last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, etc, etc, etc. It's all part of being on the world stage. Yes, once every 10 years we might have to host.

[August1991]

OK, Shady. Leave aside Quebec and the women`s vote.

Grow up. I was our turn to host these summits.

$1.2 billion ?

I did not elect a federal government to spend my money this way. It is as simple as that.

Shady, do you disagree?

[Smallc]

I did not elect a federal government to spend my money this way. It is as simple as that.

You didn't elect anything.

[August1991]

You didn't elect anything.

Oh cripes. I voted for a federal candidate (who lost), and contributed money to a federal party.

Smallc, I think you miss the point.

[Smallc]

Oh cripes. I voted for a federal candidate (who lost), and contributed money to a federal party.

Smallc, I think you miss the point.

I think you're the one missing a few things.

[Shady]

I did not elect a federal government to spend my money this way. It is as simple as that.

Shady, do you disagree?

Yes I do. First of all, it's not just your money. It's all of our money. And second of all, even with this knowledge. That Canada would host a G8/G20 summit, I'd still would have voted for Harper. For me, tackling structual deficit problems, creating a good economic environment, and keeping Canada's taxes competitive with the rest of the world, trumps a once in a long time security expense.

We can agree to disagree.

[bloodyminded]

If it is between harper or the bloc, then don't BS us , you sound like a whinny quebecer, that likes to take his ball home if he does not get his way.

August and I disagree more often than not; but you're misapprehending his point. His point here is all about fiscal conservatism; and I think a lot of conservatives (big "C" and small) are disillusioned by Harper's decidedly anti-conservative behaviours, both economically and in how he deals with pesky matters like Parliament.

[WIP]

Yeah Harper does like to throw money at things. Normally I'd associate that with the NDP.

The greatest myth of modern politics is that conservatives are fiscally responsible. Past experience in Canada and the U.S. indicates that conservatives' long term strategy is to ruin the effectiveness of government, so that there is no public watchdog that their corporate friends and benefactors will have to answer to.

They fill government departments with unqualified political hacks and cronies, and defund government by cutting tax revenues. Then conservative mantras like "government governs best which governs least" and "government is not the solution to the problem, government is the problem" become self-fulfilling prophecies!

Unfortunately by the time most people realize that unbridled greed and risk-taking has gone too far...such as when we discover that giant multinational oil companies did not bother to evaluate the risks of drilling deeper into the sea floor for the last remaining pockets of oil, we also discover that the government has been so weakened and compromised by big corporations, that it cannot fulfill its duty to look after the interests of the general public.

[Shakeyhands]

The coaliton would have disintegrated because it was made up of people who,had not only just been essentially rejected by the populous,but had a seperatist element that was entirely unplatable to most people.That's the main reason why I could'nt support it.

Someone doesn't realize that the populous majority didn't vote for the CPC candidates.... And that Mr Harper too courted the seperatist element in his "attempted coup".

[segnosaur]

And once again... Quebec is traditionally a "socialist" region... with higher taxes/higher social spending.

How ignorant. I fear that Harper shares your viewpoint.

And this is the response you give?

I pointed to Quebec's higher tax rate. (I even gave a web site allowing you to compare the income tax rate in different provinces!)

I pointed to some of Quebec's spending on social programs.

And guess what? Those are the traits of a "social democrat" system!

Do you even know what being a "fiscal conservative" is? You're really illustrating yourself to be quite ignorant.

What exactly about Quebec makes you think that its population, in any way, is oriented to the "political right"?

Oh, and I notice that once again, you have ignored several issues/questions that were raised:

- If you are opposed to spending on a G8/G20 meeting, do you want Canada to withdraw from all such meetings (and thus loose any influence we might have at them)?

- if you really are a "fiscal conservative", why would you consider voting for the Bloc, when they are a party that wants to increase spending and increase taxes?

[Wild Bill]

Someone doesn't realize that the populous majority didn't vote for the CPC candidates.... And that Mr Harper too courted the seperatist element in his "attempted coup".

Ah, but even LESS voted for the OTHER guys! If we go by your criteria for support then the alternatives have even less of a mandate.

Unless you wish to claim that ALL who didn't vote for the CPC would cheerfully put aside their differences and support a coalition that could not help but be dominated by the Liberal Party...

[Moonbox]

Haha yeah fortunately our government is not decided by who people DIDN'T vote for.

[fellowtraveller]

No Canadian PM should say that international matters are more important than domestic matters, ever.

Harper says nothing of the sort.

Your premise is entirely bogus.

Try again.