Saudis Clear Skies for Israeli Attack On Iran

[bush_cheney2004]

Who says that Arabs and Jews can't cooperate? Saudi Arabia knows what's in its best interest. So does Jordan. Looks like Plan B (as in BOMB the Iranian nuclear facilities) is coming together nicely.

Saudi Arabia has conducted tests to stand down its air defences to enable Israeli jets to make a bombing raid on Iran’s nuclear facilities, The Times can reveal.

In the week that the UN Security Council imposed a new round of sanctions on Tehran, defence sources in the Gulf say that Riyadh has agreed to allow Israel to use a narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country to shorten the distance for a bombing run on Iran.

To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7148555.ece

[Oleg Bach]

Who says that Arabs and Jews can't cooperate? Saudi Arabia knows what's in its best interest. So does Jordan. Looks like Plan B (as in BOMB the Iranian nuclear facilities) is coming together nicely.

Saudi Arabia has conducted tests to stand down its air defences to enable Israeli jets to make a bombing raid on Iran’s nuclear facilities, The Times can reveal.

In the week that the UN Security Council imposed a new round of sanctions on Tehran, defence sources in the Gulf say that Riyadh has agreed to allow Israel to use a narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country to shorten the distance for a bombing run on Iran.

To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7148555.ece

Joey around the corner has a big fat gun..Jim up the block if fully armed with the biggest gun - everybody in the hood has a gun ...metaphorically speaking....except old Paul Persia...He's not allowed to have a weapon of mass destruction. Cos' big oil does not want to have a problem when they Iraqazise Iran..Imagine that - you have some wealth and nobody wants to allow you to have the power to keep it...

[Bob]

I remember watching a couple of lectures regarding the Iranian nuclear threat, I think one was from Aaron David Miller and the other from another Middle-East professor/expert (Dennis Ross, I think). How can we really stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, anyways? Sanctions obviously won't work, and many countries simply don't take the threat seriously as they don't feel threated (Russia and China, specifically).

Israelis and their government obviously view Iran's future acquisition of a nuclear weapon as an existential threat - and likely will feel compelled to strike Iran to prevent harm befalling them. Let's not forget Iran's ENDLESS hostile rhetoric towards Israel and not-so-subtle anti-semitism. Israel legitimately feels threatened. So let's assume Israel (and/or other countries) attack Iran to destroy its nuclear facilities. Then what? Will Israel be in a position where it needs to "mow the lawn" on some sort of regular interval every time Iran gets close to acquisition of a nuclear weapon as time goes on? Is that sustainable? It saddens me to resign myself to thinking that Iran's acquisition of a nuclear device seems unavoidable.

Anyways....

[dre]

I remember watching a couple of lectures regarding the Iranian nuclear threat, I think one was from Aaron David Miller and the other from another Middle-East professor/expert (Dennis Ross, I think). How can we really stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, anyways? Sanctions obviously won't work, and many countries simply don't take the threat seriously as they don't feel threated (Russia and China, specifically).

Israelis and their government obviously view Iran's future acquisition of a nuclear weapon as an existential threat - and likely will feel compelled to strike Iran to prevent harm befalling them. Let's not forget Iran's ENDLESS hostile rhetoric towards Israel and not-so-subtle anti-semitism. Israel legitimately feels threatened. So let's assume Israel (and/or other countries) attack Iran to destroy its nuclear facilities. Then what? Will Israel be in a position where it needs to "mow the lawn" on some sort of regular interval every time Iran gets close to acquisition of a nuclear weapon as time goes on? Is that sustainable? It saddens me to resign myself to thinking that Iran's acquisition of a nuclear device seems unavoidable.

Anyways....

I could care less if Iran gets nukes. Despite all the western rhetoric Iran has been one of the least problematic countries in the middle east and has for the most part historically been the victim of the agression of others.

In any case youre right. At best an Israeli strike would set Iran back by a little bit. Irans nuclear program is designed for such a strike... its scattered amongst almost 300 locations with many of them positioned deep underground. And Iran has at least some capacity to respond to such an attach as well... they would likely attack Telaviv.

[Oleg Bach]

IF you are going to be handing out nukes - everybody gets one or nobody gets one. Besides if Iran used a nuke - Iran would cease to exist. I am sure Iran is not one huge suicide bomber....To use conventional air strikes against Iran will kill many civilians...why not just nuke them - and nuke everyone else in the region..to hell with America using Israel as an out post to disrupt the middle east so the west can have it's way with them - much like a brute that wants to f*ck all your daughters and wife to boot...maybe AMERICA should stop acting like some eighteenth century empire and get with the program...If Israel was situated say in northern Ontario - no one would give a shit.

[Bob]

I could care less if Iran gets nukes. Despite all the western rhetoric Iran has been one of the least problematic countries in the middle east and has for the most part historically been the victim of the agression of others.

In any case youre right. At best an Israeli strike would set Iran back by a little bit. Irans nuclear program is designed for such a strike... its scattered amongst almost 300 locations with many of them positioned deep underground. And Iran has at least some capacity to respond to such an attach as well... they would likely attack Telaviv.

Obviously you don't care - you're not a stakeholder in this matter. You not caring about this issue tells the rest of us how seriously we should take your opinion. I'm Jewish, and I'm actually immigrating to Israel soon. I care.

Your claim that Iran isn't a problematic country is false - Iran funds Hezbollah and Hamas, as well as Taliban and other enemies in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Iran's contributions have played a role in murdering Israelis living in areas near Gaza and in northern Israel near Lebanon. These contributions have also led to the murdering of Lebanese political opponents to Hezbollah, as well as bolstering Hezbollah's influence in Lebanon (a big problem for Lebanon and its democracy and freedoms). More importantly, Iran's contributions have led to the murdering of Canadian and American soldiers and other nationals operating in Iraq and Afghanistan - this you should care about. Not to mention the thousands of people murdered by Pakistani religious fundamentalist terrorism in contentious areas of Pakistan (Peshawar and Waziristan, I think).

I'll add one more thing - Americans, by and large, surely have at least a moderate disdain for the Iranian government. Let's not forget Iran's restrictions on political/social freedoms. Remember the internet and cellular blockages? These are moves that are unthinkable in our liberal societies. Americans, being much more ideological than we are in Canada regarding civil liberties, no doubt find such actions abhorrent. How can Americans, the leaders in civil liberties, look kindly on a government that acts in opposition to their core values?

What about the arrests of foreign journalists and allegations of espionage? Remember Canadian-Iranian Maziar Bahari? Go watch his interview with Fareed Zakaria where he talks about his experiences in Iranian jail. Another Canadian-Iranian journalist was beaten to death in a protest in Tehran in 2003. I just looked up her name - Zahra Kazemi. I am far from an expert on Iran, and these examples are just off the top of my head - I'm certain there are endless examples of Iranian intransigence towards the West. What about Ahmedinejad's hateful rhetoric against Israel and the West during his many speeches in Iran and abroad (i.e. at the UN and Columbia University)? You are either ignorant or completely ignoring these facts.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Bob

[bush_cheney2004]

...maybe AMERICA should stop acting like some eighteenth century empire and get with the program...If Israel was situated say in northern Ontario - no one would give a shit.

Sure, no one that Ontario and Canada hasn't already stepped on and refuses to settle land claims with. How about some rocket attacks?

[bush_cheney2004]

I could care less if Iran gets nukes. Despite all the western rhetoric Iran has been one of the least problematic countries in the middle east and has for the most part historically been the victim of the agression of others.

I think you mean that you "could NOT care less"...because if you could care less, then...oh well...nevermind. On this point you are out to lunch, as there are many more nations in the area that can make a far more benign claim than Iran.

[dre]

I think you mean that you "could NOT care less"...because if you could care less, then...oh well...nevermind. On this point you are out to lunch, as there are many more nations in the area that can make a far more benign claim than Iran.

NO you (as usual) are out to lunch. Why dont tell me when the last time was the Iran attacked one of its neighbors militarily? Compare them to the rest of the countries in the region... Syria, Iraq, Israel, Pakistan and so on. The last time Iran was involved in a major conflict was the US helped Iraq used chemical weapons against them.

[bush_cheney2004]

NO you (as usual) are out to lunch. Why dont tell me when the last time was the Iran attacked one of its neighbors militarily? Compare them to the rest of the countries in the region... Syria, Iraq, Israel, Pakistan and so on. The last time Iran was involved in a major conflict was the US helped Iraq used chemical weapons against them.

Iran tried to destroy Iraq's nuclear plant at Osirak but screwed up miserably...Israel got it right in June 1981.

The nations of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, and Oman have been far less hostile in the region than Iran. You are wrong because geography and history says you are wrong.

[Oleg Bach]

Iran tried to destroy Iraq's nuclear plant at Osirak but screwed up miserably...Israel got it right in June 1981.

The nations of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, and Oman have been far less hostile in the region than Iran. You are wrong because geography and history says you are wrong.

If you have not noticed the world is getting very tired of American reckless self serving policy - and they are tired of your little friend Israel also...in time both empires will be gone - the world will just have to wait..but the time will come - naturally.

[Bob]

NO you (as usual) are out to lunch. Why dont tell me when the last time was the Iran attacked one of its neighbors militarily? Compare them to the rest of the countries in the region... Syria, Iraq, Israel, Pakistan and so on. The last time Iran was involved in a major conflict was the US helped Iraq used chemical weapons against them.

Are you unable to read? I've listed just a handful of examples of Iran's "troublemaking" in the Middle East. Iran doesn't need to make a formal declaration of war against another country to be involved in criminal acts of murder. I think you need to stop posting. Stop talking, and start learning.

[bush_cheney2004]

If you have not noticed the world is getting very tired of American reckless self serving policy - and they are tired of your little friend Israel also...in time both empires will be gone - the world will just have to wait..but the time will come - naturally.

Bullshit...you can add Canada to the list of nations that has not grown tired at all, but in fact, continues to benefit economically from an alliance with the United States of America. Israel deserves no less...

There...I said it...Canada is no different than Israel when it comes to military, economic, and political alliance with the USA, and has been thus for far longer.

Edited June 12, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Bob]

Bullshit...you can add Canada to the list of nations that has not grown tired at all, but in fact, continues to benefit economically from an alliance with the United States of America. Israel deserves no less...

There...I said it...Canada is no different than Israel when it comes to military, economic, and political alliance with the USA, and has been thus for far longer.

It's very true - we here in Canada are benefactors of billions of dollars of American expenditures in military defense. Obviously I'm oversimplifying here, as America benefits from this relationship as well. One benefit that comes to mind is that I imagine there is a great deal of military/defense coordination between our two countries. Is America getting a big bang for its buck with respect to its defense spending that Canada benefits from? I don't know, but as with Israel, it isn't entirely a one-way relationship. Certainly there are many benefits shared by our two countries resulting from our relationship.

[Bonam]

Is America getting a big bang for its buck with respect to its defense spending that Canada benefits from?

It certainly did during the Cold War. Any ICBM's launched from Russia aimed at the USA would likely have followed a route over Canada. Cooperation between the USA and Canada allowed early warning systems to be placed in Canada's northern regions, giving the Americans considerable extra time to react.

[Tempest]

You may have not noticed, but the "world" is getting very tired of the West's reckless self serving policies in general. It's one of the chief reasons why China's influence has expanded so quickly in locations like Africa and Latin America. They can do business without the sanctimonious lectures, nosy human rights campaigners, or hypocritical trade barriers.

And given enough time most things will be gone... you know like Canada's political relevance outside her border/shores. In fact I'm sure that'll happen sooner than the downfall of the American/Israeli "empire" you so lustfully desire.

If you have not noticed the world is getting very tired of American reckless self serving policy - and they are tired of your little friend Israel also...in time both empires will be gone - the world will just have to wait..but the time will come - naturally.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Tempest

[Oleg Bach]

Bullshit...you can add Canada to the list of nations that has not grown tired at all, but in fact, continues to benefit economically from an alliance with the United States of America. Israel deserves no less...

There...I said it...Canada is no different than Israel when it comes to military, economic, and political alliance with the USA, and has been thus for far longer.

Like I said to you earlier "There are others" America is unaware of all others - other than themselves..that ignoring of reality and the rest of the world brands your whole nation as institutionally ignorant. YOU are no longer important..you only think you are - and thinking something does not make it so - doing something does make it so and you do nothing to promote civilization.

[Oleg Bach]

Continued: Persia - and for you ignoring Americans is now called Iran...and I as for bombing the place - most if not 90 percent of your supportive population does not even know where it is. As for the Persian culture and I have sat with young Persian men and woman - They are a very very good looking clan - they are sophisticated - intelligent, kind and cultured - and the woman are probably the most beautiful on the planet - I can see why AMERICA wants to destroy them - reminds me of when I was on set and this semi-ugly starlet demanded that all the good looking common back ground players with natural beauty were removed from the set..kind of like what AMERICA does - get rid of all the beauty and through atrition - the ugly AMERICAN whore starts to look pretty in comparison to nothing..

[Oleg Bach]

JUST to be helpful - I suggest that the AMERICAN and Israeli diplomats (if they have such a thing) - by pass the Iranian - I'm a dinner jacket...and go to the person that is actually in control - any idiot can tell that the Iranian president is not the top guy..he is a Bush clone - wonder who the Iranian version of Dick Cheney is? Find that guy and talk to him directly and avoid the kitchen help which it the lunatic front man - who was hired to harrass and nothing else - he is a diversionary figure.

[Remiel]

Obviously you don't care - you're not a stakeholder in this matter. You not caring about this issue tells the rest of us how seriously we should take your opinion. I'm Jewish, and I'm actually immigrating to Israel soon. I care.

Two things: 1) Everyone is a stakeholder in the actions of Iran, because of oil.

2) Why are you immigrating to Israel if you think your life will be in such danger? I think it very strange that there is so much rhetoric about how Israel is justified in its actions because its enemies want to " wipe out the Jews " , and yet at the very same time advocate a policy in which more Jews are put in such danger: aliyah.

[Bob]

Two things: 1) Everyone is a stakeholder in the actions of Iran, because of oil.

2) Why are you immigrating to Israel if you think your life will be in such danger? I think it very strange that there is so much rhetoric about how Israel is justified in its actions because its enemies want to " wipe out the Jews " , and yet at the very same time advocate a policy in which more Jews are put in such danger: aliyah.

Are you unable to distinguish between Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons and your more vague statement of "the actions of Iran"? Do I really need to spell it out for you that Canada is hardly facing the same threat as Israel with respect to Iran? Does such an obvious point really need to be made? Are you actually implying that everyone has as much on the line with respect to Iran's future nuclear weaponization as Israel? How can someone who's intelligent enough to turn on a computer and log into a website say something so stupid?

I am moving to Israel for many reasons, many of which you probably wouldn't understand. Just because Israel faces many threats doesn't mean that the Jewish people should give up. Your implication that Israel's existential concerns about its security are merely rhetoric used to justify its actions and aren't based on decades of terrorism, murder, and war illustrates how out of touch you are with reality. Perhaps you're ignorant of what Jews have dealt with in this land for the past century. I don't blame you, though, since it's unlikely that you care enough about this conflict (you're not a stakeholder) to do the required research to understand it. Contemporary history, to say nothing of older history of persecution of Jews around the world, if filled with endless anti-semitic declarations from all manner of involved parties, from grassroots anti-semitic demonstrations around the Arab/Muslim world for decades (and about a century in Israel and pre-Israel Palestine), to government officials and political VIPs.

Why not make the next logical extension of your position... if Israel is such a dangerous place for Jews, why doesn't Israel implement a policy of emigration to evacuate the land and relinquish it to the Arabs?

Posts like yours depress me - I begin to lose faith in the judgment of the average person.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Bob

[Remiel]

Are you unable to distinguish between Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons and your more vague statement of "the actions of Iran"? Do I really need to spell it out for you that Canada is hardly facing the same threat as Israel with respect to Iran? Does such an obvious point really need to be made? Are you actually implying that everyone has as much on the line with respect to Iran's future nuclear weaponization as Israel? How can someone who's intelligent enough to turn on a computer and log into a website say something so stupid?

You tell me. You are the one who is apparently unable to come to grips with the fact that the word " stakeholder " does not have a threshhold you choose. Just because not everyone's life is threatened by the nuclearization of Iran, does not mean that their way of life is not.

Also, why should I be particularly impressed by the intelligence of someone who thinks that turning on a computer and logging into a website actually requires an appreciable degree of intelligence?

I am moving to Israel for many reasons, many of which you probably wouldn't understand. Just because Israel faces many threats doesn't mean that the Jewish people should give up. Your implication that Israel's existential concerns about its security are merely rhetoric used to justify its actions and aren't based on decades of terrorism, murder, and war illustrates how out of touch you are with reality. Perhaps you're ignorant of what Jews have dealt with in this land for the past century. I don't blame you, though, since it's unlikely that you care enough about this conflict (you're not a stakeholder) to do the required research to understand it. Contemporary history, to say nothing of older history of persecution of Jews around the world, if filled with endless anti-semitic declarations from all manner of involved parties, from grassroots anti-semitic demonstrations around the Arab/Muslim world for decades (and about a century in Israel and pre-Israel Palestine), to government officials and political VIPs.

Why not make the next logical extension of your position... if Israel is such a dangerous place for Jews, why doesn't Israel implement a policy of emigration to evacuate the land and relinquish it to the Arabs?

Posts like yours depress me - I begin to lose faith in the judgment of the average person.

You presume much to say that I have no stake in the fortunes of the Jewish people. Though I am not Jewish I share blood with some who are, and the actions of a real anti-Semite in my family with regards to them created a great rift that has lasted many, many years.

If you actually paid attention to what I said, you would have noticed that I did not say that the rhetoric was " wrong " . What I said was essentially that it made no sense to advocate so heavily for aliyah if the rhetoric was " right " .

Edited June 13, 2010 by Remiel

[eyeball]

To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.[/i]

Probably just in time to reveal Iranian missiles approaching Riyadh or it's oil infrastructure or both.

[Bob]

You tell me. You are the one who is apparently unable to come to grips with the fact that the word " stakeholder " does not have a threshhold you choose. Just because not everyone's life is threatened by the nuclearization of Iran, does not mean that their way of life is not.

Alright fine, allow me to clarify.... only Israel has a legitimate existential concern resulting for Iran's nuclear ambitions, given Iran's rhetoric combines with extensive historic Arab anti-semitism and anti-Israeli acts and declarations. Certainly there are other stakeholders in this issue besides Israel, but none of the concerns of non-Israeli stakeholders amount to a fraction of the threat Israel faces. So when you say "everyone is a stakeholder in the actions of Iran", you're obfuscating the degree of threat Israel faces.

You presume much to say that I have no stake in the fortunes of the Jewish people. Though I am not Jewish I share blood with some who are, and the actions of a real anti-Semite in my family with regards to them created a great rift that has lasted many, many years.

If you actually paid attention to what I said, you would have noticed that I did not say that the rhetoric was " wrong " . What I said was essentially that it made no sense to advocate so heavily for aliyah if the rhetoric was " right " .

Questioning the immigration of Jews to Israel in the face of threats faced by Iran illustrates a non-understanding of Jewish history in Israel and the pre-Israel Palestinian Mandate. When have the Jews NOT faced adversity in this area? Do you think the early Zionist pioneers didn't face hostility from the Arabs in the late 19th century? What about the the wars in '48, '56, 67', 73', '82, and on and on and on... These events have never stopped Israel from absorbing Jewish immigrants. Abandoning Jewish immigration to Israel is equivalent to acquiescing to Arab intransigence.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Bob

[Remiel]

Questioning the immigration of Jews to Israel in the face of threats faced by Iran illustrates a non-understanding of Jewish history in Israel and the pre-Israel Palestinian Mandate. When have the Jews NOT faced adversity in this area? Do you think the early Zionist pioneers didn't face hostility from the Arabs in the late 19th century? What about the the wars in '48, '56, 67', 73', '82, and on and on and on... These events have never stopped Israel from absorbing Jewish immigrants. Abandoning Jewish immigration to Israel is equivalent to acquiescing to Arab intransigence.

What happened after World War II was relevantly different than everything before it, and after that it was clear that Israel could hold its own in a stand up fight. The nuclear threat, however, is also very different from everything that came before it. It is not the sort of thing that an ordinary Israeli can fight against. It is a war that can only be fought by a few people with red buttons, and everyone elses participation is limited to life or death.

Also, I thought we were talking about Persian intransigence.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Remiel