DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) That's why I said it was the same reason why there were so many casualties at Gettysburg...The weoponry had outstripped the tactics... Marching across an open field ,slightly uphill,towards Gatling guns,repeating rifles,and,heavy cannon is NOT recipe for success... Picket's Charge on the third day was pure folly. Lee lost his cookies for the moment it seemed...plus Stonewall was gone and Longstreet was grumpy for the whole battle. There were no Gatling guns at Gettysburg (pretty sure)...one saw some use at Shiloh out west, mind you. The standard weapon on the Union side was the big bore Springfield rifled musket...the Rebs were often stuck with older weapons like the Brown Bess which had a third of the range. Eventually they captured enough Springfields to arm entire brigades with them. Great fun, the US Civil War...from a historical perspective, of course. Edited July 20, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Handsome Rob Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 OK...you were contenders...and lost. Somehow I just couldn't see Von Braun immigrating to Canada. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Somehow I just couldn't see Von Braun immigrating to Canada. It was a Canadian that designed the Gemini and headed the Lunar Module project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Chamberlin Von Braun just built this sucker (Saturn V)... Edited July 20, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bonam Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 But allowing that, we still see no domestic infrastructure or capability for the design and manufacture of a either missile systems or tactical aircraft. This is what Avro Arrow nostalgia is all about. If not missiles, or the F-35, or F/A-18, or F-22, or Gripen, or Typhoon, or name any other fighter program in development or production, then what? I hope that given BC's post history the irony of that little slip up doesn't escape notice Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 Somehow I just couldn't see Von Braun immigrating to Canada. ..or the Canadian engineers emigating to America. POW Von Braun didn't exactly get to choose between Canada or the USA...but like other potential POWs, he knew not to surrender to the Rooskies. http://www.12tharmoredmuseum.com/capture.asp Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 I hope that given BC's post history the irony of that little slip up doesn't escape notice Why....is there a black fighter program in progress somewhere near Montreal. Is that why WE can't see it? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 It was a Canadian that designed the Gemini and headed the Lunar Module project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Chamberlin Right....so come on Canada, I know you can do it....build your own goddamn fighters and rotary winged aircraft and cut the crap! It's embarrassing! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jack Weber Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 Picket's Charge on the third day was pure folly. Lee lost his cookies for the moment it seemed...plus Stonewall was gone and Longstreet was grumpy for the whole battle. There were no Gatling guns at Gettysburg (pretty sure)...one saw some use at Shiloh out west, mind you. The standard weapon on the Union side was the big bore Springfield rifled musket...the Rebs were often stuck with older weapons like the Brown Bess which had a third of the range. Eventually they captured enough Springfields to arm entire brigades with them. Great fun, the US Civil War...from a historical perspective, of course. I think you're right about the Gatlings at Gettysburg...I know they were used at Petersburg... The problem with Pickett's Charge was that Lee had not sufficiently recovered from the loss at Little Round Top the previous day.His impetuousness,by his own admission,got the bestof him.Had he waited for the reinforcements that were coming,things might have been different.The fcat of the matter is,even after his generals tried to talk him out of it,Lee still went ahead with the full frontal assault.I've stood close to the high water mark at Gettysburg and it was a suicide mission.Most of the Confederates were mowed down before they even got close to the wall because it's just a big open field.More than 50,000 men went down in that 3 day battle and,if I'm not mistaken,it was the bloodiest battle in the history of warfare until either Verdun or the Battle of the Somme in WW1. It also was one of Lee's most egregious errors.He admitted his mistakes at Gettysburg.The other error,Malvern Hill,he never took reponsibility.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 ..or the Canadian engineers emigating to America. POW Von Braun didn't exactly get to choose between Canada or the USA...but like other potential POWs, he knew not to surrender to the Rooskies. http://www.12tharmoredmuseum.com/capture.asp The Rooshins (see: Maj Kong) got the crappy end of the rocket scientist stick, that's a for sure. But they also had an ace in the hole in the form of Sergey Korolev (aka 'the Chief Designer') who was pretty much another Von Braun all by himself. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 I hope that given BC's post history the irony of that little slip up doesn't escape notice There's nothing like getting a Canadian history lesson from Captain America... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 I think you're right about the Gatlings at Gettysburg...I know they were used at Petersburg... The problem with Pickett's Charge was that Lee had not sufficiently recovered from the loss at Little Round Top the previous day.His impetuousness,by his own admission,got the bestof him.Had he waited for the reinforcements that were coming,things might have been different.The fcat of the matter is,even after his generals tried to talk him out of it,Lee still went ahead with the full frontal assault.I've stood close to the high water mark at Gettysburg and it was a suicide mission.Most of the Confederates were mowed down before they even got close to the wall because it's just a big open field.More than 50,000 men went down in that 3 day battle and,if I'm not mistaken,it was the bloodiest battle in the history of warfare until either Verdun or the Battle of the Somme in WW1. It also was one of Lee's most egregious errors.He admitted his mistakes at Gettysburg.The other error,Malvern Hill,he never took reponsibility.. I was an wargamer back in the day. The US Civil War was one of the favorite subjects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrible_Swift_Sword_(game) http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11139/bloody-april-the-battle-of-shiloh-1862 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) I agree re: the US Civil War being bloody. Bloodier than WW2 for the Americans. Edited July 20, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Alta4ever Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 there are less expensive and more effective options... Really I would say the same about you global baloney nonsense and ineffective social programs. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 I agree re: the US Civil War being bloody. Bloodier than WW2 for the Americans. But just like today, Canadians couldn't help but get in on the American action: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_in_the_American_Civil_War Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jack Weber Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 I was an wargamer back in the day. The US Civil War was one of the favorite subjects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrible_Swift_Sword_(game) http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11139/bloody-april-the-battle-of-shiloh-1862 I have two Civil War games for my Playstation 2 The Civil War...A Nation Divided and The Civil War...Secret Missions They're kinda like a Call of Duty type of thing but using period ordinance... 12 different battle scenerio's in each... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 But just like today, Canadians couldn't help but get in on the American action: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_in_the_American_Civil_War The end of the US Civil War was the trigger that formed Canada two years later. The Union had a HUGE army that needed something to do...take the rest of North America for example...lol. Best drive some stakes into the ground and fast! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) The end of the US Civil War was the trigger that formed Canada two years later. The Union had a HUGE army that needed something to do...take the rest of North America for example...lol. Best drive some stakes into the ground and fast! Britain had an even better idea....confederation and leave Canada to fend for itself. Then give away things to keep the Americans on-side for wars in the next century. Smart! As for big armies and something to do, Madeline Albright said it well: What’s the point of you saving this superb military for, Colin, if we can't use it? Edited July 20, 2010 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Alta4ever Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) lol...first you say the deaths are significant that is until you find out how few there have been and now it's irrelevant what does Obama use for a predsidential helicopter?..a Sikorski Sea King... Consequently, events unfolded to force the government's hand on the matter. By the mid 1990s each Sea King required over 30 man-hours of maintenance for every hour of flying time, a figure described by the Canadian Naval Officers Association as 'grossly disproportionate'.[15] Furthermore, the helicopters are unavailable for operations 40% of the time and due to the fact that the airframes are 10–15 years older than other Sea Kings flying in allied air forces, AIRCOM is frequently forced to have spare parts custom-made as Sikorsky's supplies are either overly expensive or no longer in production. AIRCOM's Sea Kings are now widely perceived as unreliable, outdated and expensive to maintain, by observers both inside and outside the Canadian Forces. On February 27, 2003, when HMCS Iroquois was deploying to the Arabian Sea, a Sea King crashed within moments of takeoff, and the picture of the helicopter lying on its side on the destroyer's landing pad was embarrassing.[16]. Late that year, the entire fleet was grounded (except for essential operations) for several weeks after two aircraft coincidentally lost power within a few days of each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_CH-124_Sea_King When airframes get old the maintenance costs become more of an investment then a new aircraft. I doubt the presidential helicopter was built before 1963 like the Canadian sea kings. Edited July 20, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) I have two Civil War games for my Playstation 2 The Civil War...A Nation Divided and The Civil War...Secret Missions They're kinda like a Call of Duty type of thing but using period ordinance... 12 different battle scenerio's in each... The height of classic wargaming was the late 1970s...both of those are from that period. No PS1, even...just Pong. They tended to be uber-realistic...see this one for example. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/the-campaign-for-north-africa Vassal now handles most of these old classics and such...which is free. http://www.test2.nomic.net/ http://www.test2.nomic.net/wiki/Category:Modules http://www.vasl.org/ Edited July 20, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 The end of the US Civil War was the trigger that formed Canada two years later. The Union had a HUGE army that needed something to do...take the rest of North America for example...lol. Best drive some stakes into the ground and fast! And he's lucky the Brits did'nt back the Confederacy after Antietam...I would'nt have liked the Union's chances if they were attacked on two fronts...Control of the Great Lakes AND major port cities... Can you say certain death? But you're right,after the Wra there were close to 1 million men in Yankee uni's...There was a valid concern that they might come North for a little retribution for what happened 50 years earlier.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 The height of classic wargaming was the late 1970s...both of those are from that period. No PS1, even...just Pong. They tended to be uber-realistic...see this one for example. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/the-campaign-for-north-africa Back in the 60's my brother created a giant version of the 12 O'clock High board game with hundreds more primary and tertiary targets, complete POW camp, out-of-fuel glide rules based on weather reports, dud bombs, and desertion to Switzerland. The games would go on for days. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/469984/12-oclock-high-game I still have this board game (original TV version with Robert Lansing on the cover). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jack Weber Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 The height of classic wargaming was the late 1970s...both of those are from that period. No PS1, even...just Pong. They tended to be uber-realistic...see this one for example. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/the-campaign-for-north-africa Vassal now handles most of these old classics and such...which is free. http://www.test2.nomic.net/ http://www.test2.nomic.net/wiki/Category:Modules http://www.vasl.org/ I'm gonna check those out!!! Africa Campaign...Good ol' Rommel... Ervin Rommel is alot like Lee in that he seemd to be above the underlying ugliness of the cause they ostensibly were fighting for.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Alta4ever Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 take it up with Boeing they say it's a 5 and good enough that US Navy still wants it....and it's all we need and probably more, certianly less cost... the super hornet was sold to the brazilian airforce at a cost per unit of 100,000,000. This an aircraft that will be going out of production in the near future, we are getting the F-35 which is now just going into production and will have replacement parts for a longer period of time for a cost per unit of $138,000,000. Is a far superior aircraft, and will have a longer service life. But for someone like you who is so concerned with emissions you should be happy the Harper government wants the f-35 as it is more fuel efficient then f-18. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
DogOnPorch Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 Britain had an even better idea....confederation and leave Canada to fend for itself. Then give away things to keep the Americans on-side for wars in the next century. Smart! As for big armies and something to do, Madeline Albright said it well: What’s the point of you saving this superb military for, Colin, if we can't use it? Canada was a handy place to send that 3rd son kicking around the estate. Not always the most dynamic lot. But stable...even if a frightful bore at parties. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Posted July 20, 2010 When airframes get old the maintenance costs become more of an investment then a new aircraft. I doubt the presidential helicopter was built before 1963 like the Canadian sea kings. Correct....Marine One VH-3D dates to about 1977, and other more modern rotary winged aircraft are used for presidential / VIP duty. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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